The Nature of Fame

Have you ever met a famous person? How did you react? How did other people react? I have witnessed grown men literally turn into little school girls when meeting a celebrity. I have witnessed people so full of euphoria that they cry. It makes you think what is behind this phenomenon.

Through luck or talent, I was in a band and we opened up for some of the biggest bands in the world. I never once attacked or even communicated personally with these famous people but saw how people and "fans" reacted to them. It was almost like the fans were a slave to the greatness of the celebrity. It was if magic or mind control was at work. The power of popular culture is a great one.

The weird part is that the power of fame only effects certain people. It is almost as if the more time and energy a person has invested in a certain celebrity, the more crazy they will go. It is kind of like watching a television program and then the season finale is on. You have so much time invested in the program that nothing will stop you from watching the final show. There are many countless examples.

It just feels like that there is something more at work that just talent when it comes to fame. Whether it is mind control or some sort of occult magic, something is going on....

reply to post by Jdawg9909


I've just always chalked it up to a person's low self esteem and living vicariously through another. When they finally get to be near the person who they live vicariously through they have an emotional reaction as their vicarious life is suddenly more real. I'm sure that isn't all of it but it is a big part for many in my opinion.

I am not sure if it is mind control or occult magic involved but I would say the energies people who do practice these things try to harness are similar. There is a peculiar state of mind that comes with trying to live your life through another that I can imagine would make controlling another person much easier.

Or possibly it is just that people are sad and pathetic and rather than just enjoying a person's talents as another human they have to idolize them as something special so as to not feel like they are such losers?

Don't know for sure but definitely interesting to speculate on!

I carry a certain fame and it can be quite upsetting to see the effect it can have on people. I have seen it when they transmit the usual hysterias as to the publicised version.
However away from the cameras it can expose parts of people you would rather not see. It may be a great wish for some but very troubling for some people for I have seen people turn white and take on the pallour of illness and to almost lose themselves and their identities, parts of their normal cognitive functioning seems to shut down and it can bring quite a distress on. What looks like from the outside as a total collapse of self.
This I find distressing for as a fairly normal and reasonable person to create such distress in others brings me no joy.

I've had a few lead roles in a few indie films, hardly famous, but I do get recognised from time to time, and it's absolutely uncomfortable. Total strangers act like they know you intimately, I even had one person call my house asking for one of the characters I had played and seemed a little upset to find out I wasn't who he thought I was. I can only imagine being famous and getting that all the time. Acting and performing is a job, just like flipping burgers or building houses, and I don't understand people's fascination and or obsession with celebrities at all, but if I had to guess, a great deal of it has to do with marketing. Everytime we go to the grocery store or cut on the television, we are innundated with celebrity related tripe. Your familiarity and continuing fascination with these people is what makes them worth the money they bring in.

reply to post by goldentorch


I do not know what industry you are in, but would you consider yourself a product of pop culture?

Also, the people that react the way they do to you, do you feel pity for them or do you feel as if you should
just play your role as an authority? What makes you different from those who consume what you produce?

The reason I ask is because when people started to "worship" me in a sense, such as getting my band tatooed upon them, wanting my autograph or memorbilia, thinking I was more than them, I felt guilt and quit the band. I felt as if my art was putting me somewhere I did not want to be. I consider myself more of a student than a teacher. It felt as is I was leading them to some form of false worship and that is something I could not live with.

reply to post by twitchy


Yes it does seem that the media teaches us to worship these celebrities. To waste time on them and fall into that fake entertainment world. I don't know what the purpose of them creating this celebrity is, and perhaps that is what this thread is about. And also about what is behind the way people react.

Originally posted by Jdawg9909
reply to post by goldentorch

 

I do not know what industry you are in, but would you consider yourself a product of pop culture?

Also, the people that react the way they do to you, do you feel pity for them or do you feel as if you should
just play your role as an authority? What makes you different from those who consume what you produce?

The reason I ask is because when people started to "worship" me in a sense, such as getting my band tatooed upon them, wanting my autograph or memorbilia, thinking I was more than them, I felt guilt and quit the band. I felt as if my art was putting me somewhere I did not want to be. I consider myself more of a student than a teacher. It felt as is I was leading them to some form of false worship and that is something I could not live with.

Yes and no. I actually should belong to a different branch altogether but pop culture is beginning to consume everything, so in that sense yes I ended up very much a part of pop culture proof I suppose of it's pervasiveness. I actually ended up straddling quite a few 'industries' in effect and if you've ever known the horrors of discovery and the jealousies and attention of academia it is a differenent fame and one that can be more injurous than any pop culture fame. However academias interest lights and fades they make a grab and disappear, the pop side of it can be quite constant and demanding but damaging to oneself in a different way. Shallower but constant.

As part of my cross over people were a concern of mine so I can empathise with the causes of their distress for i think it has deeper roots than my particular fame but don't feel pity because I feel that takes you over into the sadistic side of human nature, and of course one never personally needs pity because of the ego that drives one to fame in the first place. So quite difficult to give anything but an equivitating answer on that one.
As part of my own makeup I believe authority to be derived from the law, so unless I put myself up for election or some other political office then my authority is non existant. I used to be authoratative sometimes with people but only after gaining a level of trust through my impeccable integrity with them. I had to answer the question that way because I was led towards the idea of having authority over people.
This leads us to the political/cultural side of the discussion, what makes me different from those who consume what I produce is that I am the producer and they are the consumer. However when it comes to the goods and services I need then the roles are reversed. A round about way of saying nothing in principal but fame's built on there being less Nobel prize winners than factory workers (which I've also done).
Hence my discomfort at their discomfort.
So I understand your worries about worship. Can't you look at it more about identifying with you and not let them cost you your dreams because it was their dream also.
I was in a slightly different position because although there's the same fame problems in my case they wanted me to be them instead of the fame problems you have gone through with them wanting to be you.

P.S. I ended up burnt out through 100 hour weeks, more sometimes and the abuses of those around me and those I was supposedly working 'with'.

reply to post by Jdawg9909

I believe it is merely animal instincts. When a person sees another person who is displaying social value, they are (in most cases) drawn to the pack leader(s) for recognition and some sense of security/validation.

reply to post by Jdawg9909

I think there are many explanations, and some more common than others, but it all depends on the amount of envy from the fan IMO.

I was always amazed when I saw the fans of Micheal Jackson, The Beatles and Elvis just faint at the presence of them. Their body just can't handle the overwhelming shock of being so close to an idol. And that's what the artists are, Idols. Some people, like the OP mentioned, I think are more inclined for this desire, but some people really enjoy worshiping something in the idolatry sense.

For movie stars or musicians and singers, people admire something much more than their talent. It might be something the artist personally expresses in their music that resonates so much with a large portion of people, or the roles the movie star plays that expresses the character in such a large portion of people, it is as if the fans want to see or indirectly experience what it is that makes the artists so great at what the do. Call it envy, call it extroverted admiration, but fame and its bizarre effects on ordinary folk shows how a large portion of people want to be apart of something bigger than themselves.

Living on an island visited by hundreds of thousands of tourists per year, and being related to a European celebrity, I have met a huge amounts of big celebrities in my life (athletes, singers, politicians etc..)... Only as a teen did I get somewhat excited when I met them. They are humans, flesh and blood just like us.

That fame thing is less intrusive nowdays than it was 25 years ago. At least in cities like NY and LA, and even in the 2nd tier towns like Boston and Atlanta. I've been around with some friends I've kept since my years in the music business (still pretty famous and successful people), and some people will come up to us and express their appreciation, but they're very gracious and very respectful. The gawking thing just isn't very acceptable socially anymore. Then again, that's in the bigger towns. I wouldn't go into an Indiana Wal-Mart with one of those guys. Then again, I wouldn't go into a Wal-Mart period.

Away from my own personal take on fame in keeping with the forum it's in let's look at the metaphysical side of it. In a political system that excludes the vast majority that then presents that system as purely fame. In effect hide it's true workings. Then a member of the public meets a celebrity they feel at last connected to a system they are in actual fact excluded from, manipulations of this can lead to mass hysteria, war, Nazis, Stalinists in fact the list is endless. Celebrity is only an aspect, or manifestation depending on your viewpoint, of surrendering your own identity and control over your own life. TPTB can do what the hell they want with you then.
In a truly civilized society appreciation of achievement or worth would be measured by those achievements and worth rather than whether you got your t*** out for a magazine or whether you grabbed you d*** on stage for a pubescent audience.
Metaphysically you are therefore valuing yourselves much as your slave masters value you.

Originally posted by TheBandit795
Living on an island visited by hundreds of thousands of tourists per year, and being related to a European celebrity, I have met a huge amounts of big celebrities in my life (athletes, singers, politicians etc..)... Only as a teen did I get somewhat excited when I met them. They are humans, flesh and blood just like us.

Agreed totally but one thing that is a little puzzling. How do celebrities that are the biggest douchebags imaginable keep a loyal following. I almost accept people creating truly great art are seperated from their actions to an extent by the greatness of their art, was it Carravagio that was a murderer?
However should they be seperated from their actions I feel I am letting humanity down by almost accepting that. He killed people. Ah yes but he painted pretty pictures for the rich to drool over
What is it now that allows people to be seperated from their actions by the smallness of their art.
Any dream will do?
Is this how bereft we have become as a culture.

reply to post by Jdawg9909


Mind control or occult magic? Hardly. It is a natural phenomena of the human mind that gets exaggerated by societal influence. It is the desire for attention. If someone gets more of it most people want to surround themselves around this person to feel a piece of it. It happens in elementary, middle and high school with the most attractive guys and girls, in college with athletes, in the work place with the most social, on and on. Nothing magical or incomprehensible here. It is the common mistake of people who search for happiness in the external world.

Peace.

This is an interesting topic to consider, especially with the popularity of reality TV and its result of more and more talentless, insignificant people being given their significance through attention from the masses.

When it comes to why people react the way they do when they see celebrities, I've got to agree with Balkan...

Originally posted by Balkan
I believe it is merely animal instincts. When a person sees another person who is displaying social value, they are (in most cases) drawn to the pack leader(s) for recognition and some sense of security/validation.

One aspect of celebrity that I think would be awful... are the people who latch onto fame like parasites. You know the ones; they find someone of value and desperately try to benefit and launch their own careers from their friend's fame. I mean, if you were one of these A-list celebrities, how would you know who your true friends are? Everyone around you could have their own agendas and just be using you for the benefits that come with knowing you.

Originally posted by xFloggingMaryx
One aspect of celebrity that I think would be awful... are the people who latch onto fame like parasites. You know the ones; they find someone of value and desperately try to benefit and launch their own careers from their friend's fame. I mean, if you were one of these A-list celebrities, how would you know who your true friends are? Everyone around you could have their own agendas and just be using you for the benefits that come with knowing you.

Reminds one of a wolf pack, doesn't it?

Originally posted by LifeIsEnergy
reply to post by Jdawg9909

 

Mind control or occult magic? Hardly. It is a natural phenomena of the human mind that gets exaggerated by societal influence. It is the desire for attention. If someone gets more of it most people want to surround themselves around this person to feel a piece of it. It happens in elementary, middle and high school with the most attractive guys and girls, in college with athletes, in the work place with the most social, on and on. Nothing magical or incomprehensible here. It is the common mistake of people who search for happiness in the external world.

Peace.

It need not be magical nor is it inexplicable. We have human empathies and needs that whilst your notion of seeking attention are grounded in those, go beyond that. Way too simplistic.
We are, if you want to go back that far, talking about a child's recognition for and from it's mother. Put any and all abuses or distractions upon that and it is possible to distort those needs into the hunt for celebrity.
A distortion of human bonding, which in itself can have it's own mysteries.
I feel you are talking natural bonding with peers this discussion is in another realm altogether. It's easy to feel a bond with someone you know, how do you replicate that bond with a distant figure?

reply to post by goldentorch


Well after re-reading the OP I am not sure what you are talking about. I thought we were talking about the nature of peoples attraction to fame. I stated, as others did, it comes down to a desire for attention. What you have described coincides with that conclusion, and I agree with you. But just because I did not go into every little detail of what accentuates that desire into a full blown attachment, doesn't mean I was overlooking the complexities of the situation. In all honesty though, this problem only becomes complex when you make it complex. Gain insight into the destructiveness and ignorance of this attachment and you will begin to let go of the attachment. Let go of the attachment to this desire and it will no longer effect you as strongly. Simple. Now if you want to flex your intellectuality and get all cerebral and theoretical, and delve into the psychoanalysis of people, then that is fine, but it almost seems like you are just wasting your time by making it more complicated than it is. This problem is not mysterious at all.

Peace.

Originally posted by LifeIsEnergy
reply to post by goldentorch

 

Well after re-reading the OP I am not sure what you are talking about. I thought we were talking about the nature of peoples attraction to fame. I stated, as others did, it comes down to a desire for attention. What you have described coincides with that conclusion, and I agree with you. But just because I did not go into every little detail of what accentuates that desire into a full blown attachment, doesn't mean I was overlooking the complexities of the situation. In all honesty though, this problem only becomes complex when you make it complex. Gain insight into the destructiveness and ignorance of this attachment and you will begin to let go of the attachment. Let go of the attachment to this desire and it will no longer effect you as strongly. Simple. Now if you want to flex your intellectuality and get all cerebral and theoretical, and delve into the psychoanalysis of people, then that is fine, but it almost seems like you are just wasting your time by making it more complicated than it is. This problem is not mysterious at all.

Peace.

You cannot state that a desire can be accentuated into complexity and then ignore that complexity in your explanation. Also a problem that is inherently complex cannot become more complex by somebody making their understanding of it more complex that is the obfuscation that leads to celebrity worship.
Also I don't think you have read this thread at all, I don't suffer from celebrity worship at all I am an object of it, so your statement about me having to let go of an attachment makes no sense. It's peoples attachment to me!
So if we want to psychoanalyise and get all intellectual it would seem as I stated that I am the one suffering from the attachment to me and you construed it as my attachment to others that can only mean that you have some sort of attachment you can't deal with.
You're a secret Britney Spears fan at a guess and can't let go, ah well.

reply to post by Jdawg9909


"is it any wonder, I reject you first?"

Whether its the worship of cultural celebritards, or the over-identification with sports stars and teams, this phenomena is everywhere. I play music as well and have "met" a few famous people over the years, and for the most part -- they aren't any more or less interesting then anyone else. One of my early band-mates from our late teen years is now a huge rockstar and plays drums in one of the biggest alternative / hard rock bands out there today. I am curious how he handles it, but unless he blogs about it, I'll probably never know, because I have lots more important things to do then try to track down a guy I haven't seen in 20 years to ask him about it.

For a lot of folk -- particularly sports fans -- that filter doesn't seem to exist. It all looks pretty silly from where I am standing.