the sumerian link to yehovah and more.

as in the way i do believe it

yehovah was a psychotic tyrant that killed off the gods of egypt (sumerian gods along) and made all slaves , \ servants , beneath him , calling himself absolute ruler (god) of the creation.

as you should understand , the satan in the biblical story , was the snake , yes you know but now the rest of it.

Enki , was as his family weapon , the snake , and yes enki was a rebel under yehovah , together with his brother Enlil (beelzebub)
and a priest\doctor , Anu also known as Anu-bis.
oh all the names of sumerian history are in egyptian history , satanical history and even the bible ; under cryptic aliasses.

i found interresting links , to texts that might get you thinking.
God was NOT the god of love.
www.angelfire.com...
demons , well , they were CALLED demons , were in fact the rulers under enki
(untill yehovah came , and smited them all , these demons were the original Egyptian - Sumerian Gods , they ruled)

along the texts of another interresting url here :
www.philhine.org.uk...

and these :
www.philhine.org.uk...
oh , yes the text of kutulu , very interresting.

look it is all about the truth , the truth about the history of sumer , sumer as the oldest civilisation recorded , and meaning that sumer writings have the oldest and highest value to our search in the big bad universe what we are , and where do we come from.

so i can imagine christians get a little sweaty and irritated by the contents
it is NOT to attack you on your faith.
i do not denie god itself , i denie the Nature of god as it is brought upon us ,
the lie , the fairy tale , around it.
History PROVES.

the Necron Omicon , is not very known , well , in movies it is.
but its original contents (that are mostly at unknown location)
do speak the same language as i turn the pages of the book about our search , the puzzle seems to get bigger and bigger , and pieves are everywhere , got to keep searching , there is just too much...
i find it strange mankind has not searched,.. itself ,.. they are too busy with their daily ..accomplishing nothing.. problems that man does create himself...
ok , lets not stop ...
look at these two sites , the contents are the thing its all about.
read it , and try to fit it into the puzzle , and take a good searchmachine and tag those phat words , that you find ,
(like KUTULU SIGIL , made me find these 2)
boozers.fortunecity.com...
members.tripod.com...

well , thats it for today , i hope the discussion flourishes

(im no *genius* at english grammar , so if there are wrong spelled words , dont mind it please)

much regards.
Calamari.
ill check here now and then.

for a slight add on to the conversation.

sumer , a little piece of information.
if you dont know that much about it , click this link.
its a beautifull site.
(Sumeria was part of the ACIENT IRAK.)
www.mesopotamia.co.uk...

this would have caused off topic reactions .. so after reading it all again decided to move it

www.abovetopsecret.com...

basically :
so masons use the g(nostic) sign
masons are intwined into the nwo theory
jehovah witness founder uses the nwo symbol
a quote The Only Way For A Person To "Be In The Light"And Obtain The Truth. The Bible Alone Would Not Do.the bible alone wont do it (contain all the thruths ? )
and the nwo guys are accused of having altered the bible (when it got writen)



[edit on 16-8-2004 by CoZ]

NM

[edit on 16-8-2004 by Tamahu]

An additional 'link' would be Zoroaster... of a virgin birth (mother impregnated by a beam of light from the heavens), he taught of the singular god, a High God, so to speak... he was excelled and then wandered to India...

So, right there, you have a Jesus connection to the Chaldeans.

OH! What about the Mayans? Jesus spoke the Mayan tounge when he was crucified... AND appeared in South America using the name Itzamna...

Mayans to Summerians?

No offense meant, but been there, done that...

Originally posted by Calamari
yehovah was a psychotic tyrant that killed off the gods of egypt (sumerian gods along) and made all slaves , \ servants , beneath him , calling himself absolute ruler (god) of the creation.

You might want to take a closer look at the timelines before you come to these conclusions. Jehovah as a god doesn't show up until about 2,000 BC, long after the gods you mentioned. Indeed, some of them had gone into decline without contact from the Jews or their culture.

as you should understand , the satan in the biblical story , was the snake , yes you know but now the rest of it.

Actually, no. "Satan" means "adversary" and as Bible students can tell you, there was more than one "Satan."

Satans were actually ANGELS sent to challenge men (in accordance to Jehovah's bidding): en.wikipedia.org...

(this isn't esoteric knowledge. Just about everyone who's had a course in the Bible knows this one.)

Enki , was as his family weapon , the snake , and yes enki was a rebel under yehovah , together with his brother Enlil (beelzebub)
and a priest\doctor

Perhaps you might want to read more on those gods. They're much older than Jehovah -- dating to between 4,000 and 5,000 BC. They lost their position to another Babylonian god, Marduk, and the whole religion collapsed about the time that the Amorites conquered them in about 1500 BC.
www.crystalinks.com...
www.gatewaystobabylon.com...
en.wikipedia.org...

Enki's weapon wasn't a snake.

Beelzebub, by the way, is an old Palestinian god, not Sumerian, although the ONLY mention of him is in the Bible, and that's just a sole reference that dates to about 1,900 BC:
en.wikipedia.org...
www.newadvent.org...

Anu also known as Anu-bis.

You really might want to do some more research on this. Anubis isn't the god's real name.. that's the Greek-ified version of it. His real name is pronounced something like "Anpu," and he was around LONG before Jehovah was. His temples and priests were active long after Jehovah showed up. The Roman conquest of Egypt (this was when the Romans still worshipped Zeus and so forth) did more to cause the decline of the Egyptian religion than the presence of the Christians or Jews.
www.touregypt.net...

oh all the names of sumerian history are in egyptian history , satanical history and even the bible ; under cryptic aliasses.

I think you might want to do more research on that. There's no Tiamat, for instance, and no Marduk or Dummuz (to cite just three.)

i found interresting links , to texts that might get you thinking.
God was NOT the god of love.
www.angelfire.com...
demons , well , they were CALLED demons , were in fact the rulers under enki(untill yehovah came , and smited them all , these demons were the original Egyptian - Sumerian Gods , they ruled)

No, the Annunki weren't demons nor did they rule under Enki (the "allfather" was El)

The Sumerians DID have entities they called demons and they weren't the same as the gods. Nor did the Sumerian deities have any connection with the Egyptian -- they're two very different groups. The Egyptian gods are as old as the Sumerian gods and they're very different. None of them manifest themselves in any way in the Christian religion, because by the time the Christians got into demonology (the dark ages) the religions had been long dead.

along the texts of another interresting url here :
www.philhine.org.uk...
www.philhine.org.uk...
oh , yes the text of kutulu , very interresting.

Well... it's interesting fiction. Sort of. If you don't mind ignoring everything that's been discovered about these civilizations and if you don't actually bother to read any of the things written by the Egyptians and Sumerians

(and I can, actually, read hieroglyphics. There are books that teach you how to do this and extensive dictionaries. Ditto cuneiform. You might get some and try reading them for yourself. I think once you start reading what the Egyptians and Sumerians REALLY said (in their own languages, written in their own scripts) you'll discover just how ...well... stupidly BAD those pages are.

look it is all about the truth , the truth about the history of sumer , sumer as the oldest civilisation recorded , and meaning that sumer writings have the oldest and highest value to our search in the big bad universe what we are , and where do we come from.

Unfortunately, it's not about truth. It's about someone making up things, who looks at something and suddenly decides they know what it's all about.

It's about someone who can't be bothered to learn to read the language.

It's about someone who can't be bothered to read what other civilizations said about these people.

It's about someone who can't be bothered to do some simple checking of history.

the Necron Omicon , is not very known , well , in movies it is.
but its original contents (that are mostly at unknown location)

Because as all the people who have written about it will tell you, it's a piece of fiction. The book doesn't exist.

i find it strange mankind has not searched,.. itself ,.. they are too busy with their daily ..accomplishing nothing.. problems that man does create himself...

...as I find it strange that someone who writes so passionately about this is too busy to actually go to the original tablets and copy down the writing and then go to the dictionaries and read for themselves what it says.

read it , and try to fit it into the puzzle , and take a good searchmachine and tag those phat words , that you find ,
(like KUTULU SIGIL , made me find these 2)
boozers.fortunecity.com...
members.tripod.com...

All you'll find in there is the happy little mind-burblings of people who can't be bothered to actually read the original.

Originally posted by Byrd

for the links , i thank ye
for all that i know is that i know nothing.
i mean that as quoting.. there is always more to learn.

for the rest ill say this , watch what you say , i might have had some things wrong , i can accept that as my mistake , but im not one who is not willing to look , for it is what i do , i dig in everything , you should know , that there is a LOT of information and DISinformation , so dont go kicking me down for i have NOT sucked out of my thumb.

i have myself ; scourses , and i conclude what i find , i am no impowerfull titan mind , i cant predict all that i find to be right or wrong.
so, ill look into those links you gave.
and await more conversation on the matter itself.
for it still stands , that there was a connection , i cannot be denied.

the connection stands in the fact that yehovah killed the egyptian gods.
and in these times there was certainly a ruler\king called marduk.
there is my link.



[edit on 17-8-2004 by Calamari]

.

[edit on 12-9-2004 by Tamahu]

Interesting reading...kinda. However, as an ant, I will serve the foot that hovers above my head.

So are the ancient Egyptian and Sumerian Gods Mortals or are they still around?

Does Ea have an Egyptian Equivilant
Does Ra have a Sumerian Conterpart
Is there a common origin to some of these stories from a civilization that predated both?

I dont know I am just asking.

Originally posted by torresm1
So are the ancient Egyptian and Sumerian Gods Mortals or are they still around?

The civilizations that conceived of them are long dead. They were forgotten until the era where we learned to decypher the writing of these people.

Does Ea have an Egyptian Equivilant

Not really... and you also have to look at how the idea and attributes of the god changed over time. He's "sort of" similar to Ra on a basic ("sort of the head deity") but not really.

Does Ra have a Sumerian Conterpart

Not really. Ra is not one of the oldest of the Egyptian gods (written about first) and he eventually blends in with another of their high gods over the 4,000 years of ancient Egyptian history.

Is there a common origin to some of these stories from a civilization that predated both?

What can be determined from the records is that they're "local gods who made good." They start out as the god of a single village or city and they become adopted by other villages and cities in the area. These places had their own gods, so Ra or Ea acquire their own wives (very different) and have different children and move up and down in importance depending on where they're found.

Hope that's clear!

Here is my question....

Could it not be so that the Hebrews, spending 40 yrs. in the desert, and who were being led by a God in box (similar to some Egyptian stories) could they of not re wrote these Egyptian stories to where history became erased? Could they of not led us to believe that this YHWH is really younger then what should be presumed with their strange long yrs? I for one think the YHWY story is related to killing the Gods of Egypt. Why would they do this? Could it not be possible, that this Sarah who gave birth to Isaac actually dates farther back then what we are led to believe? Sarah gives birth at almost 100 yrs. old?!? What if the ones that wrote this story were not really the ones who lived the story? A story being retold to suit a shunned nation that was forced to leave Egypt.

Im not saying this is the way it is....but is it not possible?

Its ironic, to me, that circumcision and the god getting carried in a box seems to of originated in Egypt, as well as divine births.

LV

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
Here is my question....

Could it not be so that the Hebrews, spending 40 yrs. in the desert, and who were being led by a God in box (similar to some Egyptian stories) could they of not re wrote these Egyptian stories to where history became erased?

Not sure what you're talking about here, since the Egyptians were never led by a "god in a box." The only one who ended up in a box was Osiris when he died, and after he was resurrected he ruled the land of the dead. he didn't lead anyone anywhere.

And... at this point there aren't any Hebrew inscriptions from the "40 years in the desert" time frame. There are writings from other civilizations that document what's going on in those nations and states, but the Hebrews weren't that important to them so they don't get a mention.

Could they of not led us to believe that this YHWH is really younger then what should be presumed with their strange long yrs?

Jehovah probably has a complex history, much of it uncovered because the people who believed in this deity didn't write until about 1,000 BC (in contrast, the Sumerians, Egyptians, Hindus, and Chinese began writing about 4,000 BC). There are a few old shrines to Jehovah showing him with a female deity who is identified as his wife... so we know that he originates as some sort of tribal god.

I for one think the YHWY story is related to killing the Gods of Egypt.

Not sure what you're referring to here. Nothing killed the gods of Egypt and their worship continued in one form or another at least until around 300 AD (if memory serves.) It certainly was a viable religion at the time of Augustus and Caesar and the priests of Isis were reknowned for their honesty.

Why would they do this? Could it not be possible, that this Sarah who gave birth to Isaac actually dates farther back then what we are led to believe? Sarah gives birth at almost 100 yrs. old?!? What if the ones that wrote this story were not really the ones who lived the story?

Since this story in the Bible is NOT written in the first person, it's pretty safe to say that the ones who wrote it were not any of the characters in the story.

A story being retold to suit a shunned nation that was forced to leave Egypt.

There's almost no evidence that the Hebrews were in Egypt as slaves -- or that they were there in any great numbers. A few of them served as scribes and wrote magical charms for the Egyptians (charms against snakes, invoking not Jehovah but rather the Egyptian gods.) Nor is there any evidence they were forced to leave... no royal decrees, etc.

Its ironic, to me, that circumcision and the god getting carried in a box seems to of originated in Egypt, as well as divine births.

The "god in the box" isn't Egyptian... and as for divine births, every group of people with gods has stories of divine births and offspring that were half human and half god. Even with loosely organized deities, you still had semi-divine offspring (the Native American god, Coyote, had several children, according to different tribes.)

There are many stories being passed along on the web -- some are created by misunderstanding and bad research.

You might like to read up more on the deities... Wikipedia is at least one place to start.

Ive read in a couple different places that Amun-Ra was carried in a box and also taken into battles. Its something I am still searching on.

Here is my thinking, mabey its way out in left field, but...when Sarah leaves Egypt, she is sent away with gifts because she is carrying the Pharaohs offspring. This is the time when divine births ended in Egypt. The Hebrews were guided by what they saw as God, but it seems more like a wrathful jealous God who needs blood and gets carried in a box. Yhwh didnt really kill any gods, but the Pharaohs in Egypt realized that the divine births were no more, seemed to of went through some rough adjustments in understanding why their power seems to not exists now. If something went wrong, like the Pharaoh sleeping with Sarah, the divine births mess up somehow, and the Hebrews are thinking that it is the one true god with them...they try to carry on the Egyptian magic so to say, waiting for the next divine birth through their lineage, which is somewhat Egyptian.

Mabey I am way off...but I think some of it could be right. The Hebrews have many Egyptian traditions. Also, the Egyptian desert God was Yaw/Yah, which is strange to me when I think of Yhwh.

Even if Im way off, the subject will forever interests me. so always love to hear others thoughts....its so ironic to me that Ra is in Is-Ra-El.

LV

reply to post by LeoVirgo


I have a question for you. In life, what is blood used for? How is life maintained ie, regeneration? Why do some assume that if they are ancient, they were eating blood and Calling God an invisible diety.

Would not their history, show them to be somewhat civilized? Would not their structures and "box"s of been for practical purposes? It's only 6000 years here, not that much time in the grand scheme of never ending turn over.

Start thinking about what blood is and why it is important which is for the same reason it is today, no blood no life. Don't tell me in a thousand years they are going to dig up a hospital and think we were blood eaters, because of an illustration on a piece of metal of a man having an operation.

These people did in a relatively short amount of time (to our knowledge) construct whole civilizations, with complex writing systems, buildings, machines, mathematics, education, language, culture, Faiths. I would venture to say, not that much has changed, and you have to remember, that we piece together history. We don't have complete records and never will.

I would imagine Gods started out at tribal levels, because the Gods were men. The elders of the tribe are usually its counsel. The ELders. Ancestor worship was probably more to them then a certain god, as that is show in most indigenous people. Hey another important reason for blood...lineage.


I think it is more far out to think of wild offering rituals of babies and blood,etc. then to see....they were people just like us with the same intelligence or at least the same capacity for understanding.

Peace

[edit on 9-10-2008 by letthereaderunderstand]

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
Ive read in a couple different places that Amun-Ra was carried in a box and also taken into battles. Its something I am still searching on.

No, Egyptians didn't carry god images into battle. The Pharaoh WAS the god, so there was no need for this. Nor were they carried in boxes.

Here is my thinking, mabey its way out in left field, but...when Sarah leaves Egypt, she is sent away with gifts because she is carrying the Pharaohs offspring.

Uh...that isn't in the Bible. She carries Abraham's child, and they don't leave Egypt (they are living in Caanan, not Egypt). Here's the link to a brief version of the story:
www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...

The story begins in Chapter 11 of the Bible and goes to Chapter 23. Here's a link, if you don't have a Bible handy: etext.virginia.edu...

This is the time when divine births ended in Egypt.

Erm... no. Cleopatra The Last set herself up as being divine of birth and was worshipped as Isis around 40 BC to 30 BC

...but the Pharaohs in Egypt realized that the divine births were no more...

The "humans are not gods" belief shows up in Egypt and Rome at the time the Roman empire becomes Christianized, around 300 AD (long, long, long after the time you're mentioning.

If something went wrong, like the Pharaoh sleeping with Sarah,

Sarah never got to Egypt.

Mabey I am way off...but I think some of it could be right. The Hebrews have many Egyptian traditions.

Actually, it's more accurate to say that the Middle Eastern culture shared a lot of traditions. The Hebrews have traditions that belong to all the cultures in the area.

Also, the Egyptian desert God was Yaw/Yah, which is strange to me when I think of Yhwh.

Err... you've stumbled across some VERY poor information sites, I'm afraid. The god of the desert was "As" www.touregypt.net... -- the god of the destructive desert storms was Set.

A good, brief, list of gods is here (and this one is accurate):
www.touregypt.net...

Even if Im way off, the subject will forever interests me. so always love to hear others thoughts....its so ironic to me that Ra is in Is-Ra-El.

The source of this myth is modern, and it's based on some Really Bad Reasoning -- by someone who didn't read the Bible! That's really ironic when they're giving out statements about the Bible.

The name Israel derives from the Hebrew yisra'el, he that fights with God, which in turn derives from sara, he fights, and El, God. This is the name that God gave to Jacob (and all his descendants) after their Greek-myth-like wrestling match. (the site then goes on to cite the Biblical verses where God proclaims the name and its meaning) www.mootgame.com...

Byrd. I had no idea...lol.

Your a humbling reminder to me, to keep myself accountable to the things I'm focusing my attention on, in the light, so when shared...everyone can see.

Peace

I have reason to believe that the Egyptian do have stories of the 'symbol' of their gods being carried in an ark into war in hopes to give them power. The symbols were represented as the animals, such as a serpent of image or the Apis Bull ect....ironic when we think of Moses coming back down and the Golden Bull has been built, this is a example of what Egyptians did, they carried their god, which always had a symbol, they carried this symbol on their shoulders...to me its the same idea we see, gods being carried by men.

Many Egyptian ideas were burrowed. The robes with pomegranates, Holy of Holies, the rod with a serpent, circumcision, virgin births ect....in the ancient times of Egyptian religions, the gods were not the Pharaohs, Ra was not human form, Amun ra was not human form...ect. There seems to be a time period when the gods did begin to take human form.

Im still researching this idea, so its possible Im mistranslating something, but i have seen a picture of Egyptians carrying what looked to be just like a ark that was on polls being carried on thier shoulder.

There are definatly stories where a god was carried into battle by the Egyptian. When they carried the serpent, it was in a box yes. When they carried the bull, mabey it was the image of a huge bull. Still, same idea.

The ages of sarah and Abraham in the Bible are ridiculous. I think its very possible that when the Pharoah took Sarah into his house its very possible this was the begining of the lineage of kings in the later Hebrews.

Sarah was definatly in Egypt, Abraham lied to the Pahroah and said she was his sister (which she was, but also his wife) should we think they didnt sleep together? Why would the Pharaoh be so upset with Abraham if the Pharaoh hadnt of loved Sarah. If memory serves me right, it was actually God who let Pharaoh know that Sarah was Abraham's wife. Pharaoh shows being upset, but still sends them with many gifts. The Bible says Sarah had her firstborn like 100 yrs later of something close to that, I think those yrs. can not be taken logically.

I think it was Joseph who was told he would be a father to a pharoah. Why?

Saras names was changed after they left Egypt and so was Abraham's. In Egyptian, Sara means princess. I find all of this very ironic.

Yes, there are many traces of many traditions of other lands in the Hebrews, but I see more Egyptian traditions then any other.

Egyptians had Temples that were the same set up as the Holy of Holies. Only certain priest could enter at certain times, wearing the robes with Pomegranates on the hems.

Peace,
LV

Hello Leo,

As far as the traditions go, I believe you are right.

It says, "Out of Egypt, I have called my people Yisrael". So, it makes complete sense that everything is taken from the Egyptians from traditions, Gods and the like. One thing I think that would clear things up in regards to the names, is to study what the names mean.

Much like native Americas cultures, the names all carry meanings. This is why the names are changed with certain individuals, because the meanings of the names change with the names. I can know you as Leo. Thus, I would think of a Lyon and all the characteristics that go along with that, yet you are Leo, one man who encompasses many more characteristics then your name shows. It's the SPIRIT of the book that is important, so we carry on in the spirit of it, like a child carry's on in the spirit of there parents.

The Egyptian Head dress of the Pharo's is representative of a Cobra or Asp, so the Hibiru's/Sibiru being seen as "Serpent" worshipers is not that crazy of an idea.

Moses was told to make every thing exactly as he saw it shown to him, IN THE MOUNTAIN.

This is I'm sure not an original idea, but none the less I haven't seen it offered before.

I believe that the Pyramids represent a Volcano. I know that the Egyptian creation speaks of a mountain coming up out of the void of the waters, thus being salvation, because of solid ground. Also, listening to the doors helps. "And our love become a funeral pyre". Pyre...Fire....Mid....Mountain=Pryamid or Fire Mountain. Also the pyramid is an ARC.

Peace
Scema of Kufu's Pyramid


Volcano


Mayan Depiction with Volcano in background


[edit on 11-10-2008 by letthereaderunderstand]

[edit on 12-10-2008 by letthereaderunderstand]

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
I have reason to believe that the Egyptian do have stories of the 'symbol' of their gods being carried in an ark into war in hopes to give them power.

Well, there's lots of digs that are recorded online and thousands of items in museums that you can find pictures of online. Could you link to some of your evidence?

Many Egyptian ideas were burrowed. The robes with pomegranates, Holy of Holies, the rod with a serpent, circumcision, virgin births ect....in the ancient times of Egyptian religions, the gods were not the Pharaohs, Ra was not human form, Amun ra was not human form...ect. There seems to be a time period when the gods did begin to take human form.

Could you point to some of the sites that gave you this impression?

Im still researching this idea, so its possible Im mistranslating something, but i have seen a picture of Egyptians carrying what looked to be just like a ark that was on polls being carried on thier shoulder.

If you can find a picture, we can read the writing (hieroglyphics) next to it, which will tell us what they're doing.

There are definatly stories where a god was carried into battle by the Egyptian. When they carried the serpent, it was in a box yes. When they carried the bull, mabey it was the image of a huge bull. Still, same idea.

I've never heard of this before -- what gave you this impression?

The ages of sarah and Abraham in the Bible are ridiculous. I think its very possible that when the Pharoah took Sarah into his house its very possible this was the begining of the lineage of kings in the later Hebrews.

They lived in Caanan, not Egypt.

Sarah was definatly in Egypt, Abraham lied to the Pahroah and said she was his sister (which she was, but also his wife) should we think they didnt sleep together?

I see that I didn't do my research properly -- they were in Egypt, and Sarah was given to Pharoah...but if you recall, an angel came in with a flaming sword and scared him and kept him from her.

Saras names was changed after they left Egypt and so was Abraham's. In Egyptian, Sara means princess.

Uh...they didn't have a term, "princess." Daughter of the Pharaoh was "pr-aA sAt"

Here's a link to the Egyptian dictionary: hieroglyphs.net...

Egyptians had Temples that were the same set up as the Holy of Holies. Only certain priest could enter at certain times, wearing the robes with Pomegranates on the hems.

I have seen many pictures and statues...but I've never seen a priest with that gear. I've seen them with this outfit, however:
www.touregypt.net...

And here's a copy of a panel on a wall of someone's tomb:
www.dkimages.com...

Could you link to some pictures of these outfits? I've never seen them.