Terrible Development! Ridiculous Compromise yet again!

Something far more sinister is happening, and apparently nobody is, like always, paying attention. History is, like always, repeating itself. The main objective isn't to "kick-the-ball" to sometime into the future, until the damn thing can't be kicked anymore.

America is being Demographically, and Economically Engineered...that is what they are gaining time for. When the time comes for the guillotine, their will be no more Free Americans left, to do what has to be done...Everybody will, one way or another, be Dependent on the Government for their sustainment. Also, the Hitl...eeerrrr, the BHO goon squads will be in full strength, and ready to cut down the last branches of the "Tree Of Liberty".

Make no mistake, the Impostors next War will be on the very few "FREE AND BRAVE" Americans, still resisting.

You had your time, you made your choices. Like the crack-whore, you choose to defend, and work for your Pimp...

So, Americans, the time has come. WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT???

P.S. » By the look of things, most are going to continue to be crack-whores...pointing their fingers at the convenient "enemy" of the age, created by the Orwellian Nannie State: the elusive, ever-changing, undefinable "Elites"...in other times it would have been the "Jews"...or is it still...

I hate to think like this but sometimes I can't help but wonder... If the government just doesn't care... how do we know they aren't caring because D-Day is upon us soon?

Originally posted by rboiATS
reply to post by romanmel

 

Sorry guys but if someone goes and does something based on advice they got of a site like this without looking into it themself well they kinda gonna get what they deserve !

What i want to ask though is do you have any information that discredits what he is saying ? simply becasue this is not the first time i have come across this information and there are always people arguing both sides, but the naysayers can never explain to me how this doesn't work and the people arguing for are generally use other website to back them up ? i guess my question really is what law/laws does this fall under ?

Cheers

If one wishes to try to "stick it to the banks" as some have advocated, that is up to you. I would not advocate anyone do it.

My question is this....What is the right thing to do? Did you agree to pay the mortgage? Were you forced to sign the mortgage agreement? Do you value your word? Is it right to "stick it" to someone just because you can. One word comes to mind....HONOR. Do the honorable thing.

Any deal that doesn't include us creating our own American currency is a band-aid meant just to keep this jalopy going a little while longer.

You cannot solve a dollar problem with dollars.

There's a grammar rule that says you can't use the word in the definition of the word, so why do we see this as being different?

When every dollar in existence is attached to debt, how can you use it and get out of debt? When your direct deposited check hits the bank and they can loan, from thin air, about 9 times the amount, to your neighbor who then has to pay it back with interest, how can you get out of debt?

The system was not designed for you and I to get out, but deeper in. Into what? Debt. The evidence of this is clear, everyone you know is in debt to one degree or another.

Debt creates suffering and suffering is what the darker power running this show feeds off of.

reply to post by rboiATS


Foreclosure Law organized by State. The most important document is each person's actual mortgage document. It has several rights clearly spelled out in the parameters of the mortgage. One of the most important rights is usually the right to mediation.

WSJ Article about the Bank of America and Wells Fargo settlement that is still ongoing. The banks are going to take a huge hit on this issue.

Washin gton Post Article about the huge electronic clearinghouse fiasco that has stalled all the foreclosure proceedings, because the documents are not legitimate.

Here is one of my favorite parts....

Coakley is asking questions about whether the Reston-based company violated Massachusetts state laws on property seizure and is concerned that the company did not pay government fees.

A 50-state coalition of attorneys general is negotiating a multibillion-dollar settlement with the nation’s largest banks over their foreclosure practices. Coakley said that Massachusetts will “not sign on to any global agreement with the banks if it includes a comprehensive liability release regarding securitization and the MERS conduct.”

NOW, back to the topic at hand.....

In my lifetime, the debt ceiling has gone from 577 billion to....if this agreement passes, $15.2 trillion! That is almost 30 times the limit when I was born! My father had a Sears card when I was born. The limit was $500. A couple of years ago, his limit had reached $9000, but due to the economic situation of 2008, Sears lowered the limit to $5000 to minimize their risk. Now if Sears is smart enough to raise a good borrower's limit by that amount, and then throttle it back down for tough economic times, why isn't our government?

February 2010 - $14.294 trillion
December 2009 - $12.394 trillion
February 2009 - $12.104 trillion
October 2008 - $11.315 trillion
July 2008 - $10.615 trillion
September 2007 - $9.815 trillion
March 2006 - $8.965 trillion
November 2004 - $8.184
May 2003 - $7.384 trillion
June 2002 - $6.4 trillion
August 1997 - $5.95 trillion
March 1996 - $5.5 trillion
August 1993 - $4.9 trillion
April 1993 - $4.37 trillion
November 1990 - $4.145 trillion
October 1990 - $3.23 trillion
November 1989 - $3.1227 trillion
August 1989 - $2.87 trillion
September 1987 - $2.8 trillion
August 1987 - $2.352 trillion
July 1987 - $2.32 trillion
October 1986 - $2.3 trillion
August 1986 - $2.111 trillion
December 1985 - $2.0787 trillion
November 1985 - $1.9038 trillion
October 1984 - $1.8238 trillion
July 1984 - $1.573 trillion
May 1984 - $1.52 trillion
November 1983 - $1.49 trillion
May 1983 - $1.389 trillion
September 1982 - $1.2902
June 1982 - $1.1431 trillion
September 1981 - 1.0798 trillion
September 1981 - $999.8 billion
February 1981 - $985 billion
December 1980 - $935.1 billion
June 1980 - $925 billion
September 1979 - $879 billion
April 1979 - $830 billion
August 1978 - $798 billion
October 1977 - $752 billion
June 1976 - $700 billion
March 1976 - $627 billion
November 1975 - $595 billion
February 1975 - $577 billion

Source

reply to post by romanmel

My question is this....What is the right thing to do? Did you agree to pay the mortgage? Were you forced to sign the mortgage agreement? Do you value your word? Is it right to "stick it" to someone just because you can. One word comes to mind....HONOR. Do the honorable thing.

I agree with this 100%. In my case, I was actually advised, by the bank, to let the mortgage go for a couple of months, so I would qualify for one of the several mortgage programs out there. I was only trying to restructure to get the interest rate down. My ex-wife had successfully lowered her rate from 6% to 1.5%, with a 0.5% increase each of the next several years until it finally capped at 5.0%. This was a great program for her, and I was trying to do the same thing. The bank screwed me first, by not being willing to deal, and then offering this shady advice, and then backing out and still not being willing to deal. They also violated the Obama's directives, and the laws that corresponded to some of the bailout money.

I feel 100% honorable in my dealings with the banks, but I see your point, and I agree with it.

reply to post by romanmel


Ok i wasnt looking for a lesson on morality from a complete stranger just some answers to some questions so you require others to answer your questions but not vice versa No worries thankyou !!

reply to post by getreadyalready


I couldn't agree with you more! The posturing by the Executive Branch is amazing. Plus, he is threatening Social Security, WHILE THEY ARE RUNNING THE ONLY SURPLUS IN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT! The first thing that needs to occur is to separate SS from the federal budget, make the government stop stealing money from that program to pay other programs, this is taxation with false representation!

Second, while I agree that the US AAA rating is important, it doesn't matter much if we have maxed out our credit card, so instead of raising the debt ceiling by almost a Trillion in the short term and maxing it again by February or March, just don't raise it. Mark the bonds as unpayable and tell the investors to come back later for their money. We might have some inflation, but it probably wouldn't actually be hyper since it would technically only be about the same amount as the QE1 and QE2 levels, so maybe 20% over the course of the year? Suddenly our money is weaker, which sucks for all the techies out there that love to import electronics, and yes gas prices rise to around $4 per gallon, but we Americans are used to that. If we just take our medicine now, since our grandparents couldn't stomach the spoonfulls, our kids can emerge from this far better off and we will only have a hard time for a few years. Oh yeah, cut foreign aid to 0, which sucks for foreigners, but they have governments that should take care of them too. I have a friend from Saudi Arabia that told me they pay the equivalent, exchange rate included, of about 80 cents a gallon for gas. Thats ridiculous! Why do we pay so much? It's because we give them aid all the time and they think we are wealthy so they take advantage. We only get about 1/3 of our oil from overseas, so how is it possible that we acquire $3/gallon in shipping costs?

Imports will decrease, a good thing, exports will increase, a good thing, our trade imbalance will become a little better, a good thing, and we could possibly attain a balanced budget. Other governments won't like this plan much, but they will realize that they mis-perceived our wealth. Our infrastructure is aging and out of date compared to Asia, who built theirs with dollars, our people are in debt up to their eyeballs, our government is drowning, WE NEED CHANGE! WHERE IS THE CHANGE YOU PROMISED MR. PRESIDENT?

If TPTB seriously believe that the next election will see more seasoned politicians in office they are sorely mistaken. If our seasoned politicians continue to misgovern, they will not be re-elected. There will be no more "Waiting for your turn" to run for office against the current powers. People of principle will run, and they will win, and the "Experience" in Washington will be removed.

Those 84 votes are bad, but the power base is going to change very fast if those 84 votes continue to matter!

THE CURRENT DEAL IS A JOKE AND IF IT TAKES SHUTTING DOWN THE GOVERNMENT, THEN DO IT NOW! VOTE NO ON THIS DEAL AND FIND A REAL SOLUTION!

The fear tactics are just fear tactics, SS will get paid, the pentagon already has its money so the soldiers will get paid. Medicare will have a problem, just like many other programs, but this is what it will take.

Sorry for the rant, I'm a little animated about this deal today, its SO RIDICULOUS! How is it possible that a deal was reached that nobody agrees reaches any of the tenants that any side wanted? This isn't a compromise, its just stupid!

Have every one of our leaders forgotten the rule of 70? Seriously, a growth rate of 7% on a program means we double that spending every 10 years! We are not doubling revenues over that time, so who cares if we reduce spending by 2.7 trillion over 10 years. The 3 programs that increase at 6, 7, and 9% will more than cover that reduction in spending.

reply to post by inforeal


I couldn't agree with you less. Free trade is good for the economy and helps us become able to specialize, unfortunately we haven't really specialized in anything except military strength and food production. The problem isn't trade policy it is the super-strength of the dollar. If we could weaken the dollar then exports would become far more attractive to foreigners. I know people don't want a weak dollar but that's because they are hoodwinked by the media to believe a strong dollar is great! LET ME BE CLEAR, a strong dollar is great if you want to import a lot and buy stuff, but it is terrible for creating domestic jobs, unless of course you are satisfied with a service economy. Eerie how this is beginning to resemble the early 1970's. But, this is a complicated argument and really there is a Goldy-Locks zone for the strength of a currency and right now we are not there. I do not wish to hijack this thread or continue this argument, I just wanted to make that clear to you. Free trade is good.

reply to post by getreadyalready


Perhaps you got bad advise from the mortgage holder's rep. You should have checked with an attorney before you embarked upon a "plan" that included faking that you were in default.

I applied to my mortgage holder under the Making Homes Affordable program. I was up-to-date on my payment. I qualified and lowered my rate from 6.375% to 5.000%, reducing my payment by $200 per month. The program worked for some but not all.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
Today we murdered the future of our children with this compromise. I am saddened and disgusted, and I know it isn't just the government, we all had a part to play.

Well I don't know about you, but I had no part to play in this. I haven't voted for one spending bill in my life, or voted to increase debt limit.

If I had it my way, I wouldn't pay federal taxes, what's the point? None of the money goes towards our well being; kind of like the politicians, none of them care about our well being either.

I am disgusted by this plan as well.
Cut $2 trillion (yeah, right) over 10 years,
while adding $2.4 trillion to this year?

I sincerely hope this plan fails.

reply to post by memarf1


Perfect Assessment!!

Read Memarf's post for verification of how doing nothing at all is vastly superior to passing this plan! Making a good plan would be an even better option, but in the absence of any recognizeable intelligence in government, the alternative of just letting the default proceed is the best possible solution!

reply to post by getreadyalready


I was looking at this from the source above and wanted to see how the past thirty years compares with the 30 years before that. So here is the analysis. From 1975 to now the debt has increased from 577billion to 14.3trillion. The 30 years before that the debt went from 300billion to 577billion, not even doubling! So, directly following WW2, during the Korean War, Vietnam War, a large portion of the Cold War, and countless "Little Wars", the debt didn't even double! But now, for the past 30 years, with 2 small wars, and a few banking crisis, the debt has gone up by roughly 25 times!

February 1975 - $577 billion
June 1974 - $495 billion
December 1973 - $475.7 billion
October 1972 - $465 billion
March 1972 - $450 billion
March 1971 - $430 billion
June 1970 - $395 billion
April 1969 - $377 billion
June 1967 - $358 billion
March 1967 - $336 billion
June 1966 - $330 billion
June 1965 - $328 billion
June 1964 - $324 billion
November 1963 - $315 billion
May 1963 - $309 billion
July 1962 - $308 billion
March 1962 - $300 billion
June 1961 - $298 billion
June 1960 - $293 billion
June 1959 - $295 billion
September 1958 - $288 billion
February 1958 - $280 billion
July 1956 - $278 billion
August 1954 - $281 billion
June 1946 - $275 billion
April 1945 - $300 billion

Originally posted by xstealth

Originally posted by getreadyalready
Today we murdered the future of our children with this compromise. I am saddened and disgusted, and I know it isn't just the government, we all had a part to play.

Well I don't know about you, but I had no part to play in this. I haven't voted for one spending bill in my life, or voted to increase debt limit.

If I had it my way, I wouldn't pay federal taxes, what's the point? None of the money goes towards our well being; kind of like the politicians, none of them care about our well being either.

Well I don't know about you, but I have played a part in our consumptionist lifestyle. I have been upside down in a car loan and rolled the debt to the next car. I have bought cheap furniture at Target, and then threw it out a year later and bought more cheap furniture. I have bought cheap $1 toys made in China and then trashed them a week later and bought more for the kids. I have fallen into the habit of eating out at lunch every day instead of bringing my own from home.

I think we have all played a part in creating this economy. If you have lived frugally and bought American, then Kudos to you! We need more like you, but I had to learn the hard way, and I am only now realizing how buying quality merchandise might cost a little more upfront, but it saves money in the long run. I am still having a hard time ending my paper plate and plastic cup addiction though! I hate doing dishes.

reply to post by memarf1


SO..... it was our parents that fell out of the nest, and ignored the lifestyles of their parents, and created this mess. Now it is up to us to end the cycle of insanity and not leave this debt for our children!!

The next 30 years should see the debt incrementally lowered to a respective level, and it starts tomorrow with a default and a devaluation of the dollar!

ETA:
I'm saying right now, that if they leave the ceiling intact, I will gladly ride my bicycle the 8 miles to work and back and avoid the $5 gas that is coming. I will gladly give up my paper plates and cups, and start eating peanut butter and jelly for lunch every day. I will gladly drink from the water fountain instead of buying Aquafina. I will gladly brew Coffee at home and avoid Starbucks. I will gladly look for the "Made in America" tag on every purchase!

If we all make a lifestyle change tomorrow, the same way we are demanding the government make a paradigm shift, then we can all be part of the solution instead of the problem.

reply to post by getreadyalready


Precisely!

I said our grandparents above, but it was clearly our parents, not theirs, that caused this problem.

Corruption and poor governing, and a generation of credit lovers. Its good that our generation has the good sense to see this and start a sort of "Dave Ramsey" attitude. Cash basis is the only reasonable way to live.

LIVE LIKE NO ONE ELSE SO YOU CAN LIVE LIKE NO ONE ELSE!

Edit: Lets not get crazy, I'm not giving up Starbucks, but the rest sounds good. HAHAHA

Originally posted by memarf1
reply to post by getreadyalready

 

LIVE LIKE NO ONE ELSE SO YOU CAN LIVE LIKE NO ONE ELSE!

Edit: Lets not get crazy, I'm not giving up Starbucks, but the rest sounds good. HAHAHA

edit on 1-8-2011 by memarf1 because: adding a quip

With 20 to 30% inflation, that Starbucks cup might run you $10 to $12!! Better learn to like home brew, LOL!

Or, as in all things, Stabucks will likely adapt and streamline their busines model, and keep prices affordable. McDonalds did a great job with their $1 menu when this whole financial crisis hit.

Perhaps you can keep your Starbucks, they seem to be a pretty progressive business, they will find a way to keep their coffee selling.

reply to post by getreadyalready


A $1 menu at Starbucks would be AWESOME! LOL.

I need to buy a bike though to do the rest, already don't use paper, and bought a big fat water bottle that I carry everywhere now, so no more Aquafina. $12 a cup of specialty coffee though would force my hand. I'd have to find a different place to read then. LOL. Would probably be quieter and get more reading done that way anyway. haha.

Apparently there are active protestors in the House of Representatives and C-Span is editing the audio so they aren't apparent.

ATS Thread here.

There is still hope that this thing won't get the votes it needs.

Nancy Pelosi has been intentionally vague with her support so far!

Even with all of Obama's faults, I'm glad I didn't vote for McCain. He caved in at the first opportunity for a compromise. I knew he was a poor example of a leader when he approved of Palin as his running mate without even meeting her first.

reply to post by getreadyalready


I really wonder how many more protests there would be if this had occurred in October when it wasn't 1000 degrees outside.

Weather affects elections, there is no reason to think it wouldn't affect protesting things either. FOX had an online poll earlier today that had several thousand votes and indicated a 93% disapproval of this compromise. Surely 93% would spawn many protests if the weather would get better?

Heres the link: FOX POLL RESULTS