Obama, Congress Reach a Debt Deal

we need to see the riders. at one point last week, there were 33 riders, including one that capped the protected and endagered species list, meaning no more animals could be added

on a budget bill

that's what I'm worried about, the last second crisis bill always has things in it that otherwise wouldn't fly

nvm, off topic

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Well yipee.... 2 trillion in long term spending cuts. I suppose that might sound dandy if we hadn't added nearly that much in ANNUAL spending within the last few years. Obama and Bush did it, but this 2 trillion over the long term doesn't even bring us back to spending levels at the time Obama took office.

If this is the final arrangement, I believe this is one of the plans Moodys said won't even make a difference to their downgrading U.S. debt ratings...and why should it? This is smoke and mirrors with stinky smoke and rather filthy old mirrors.

No future congresses are required to follow the budget constraints passed by this congress. It never has ever happened in all the history of the US.

Thats 2 trillion over 10 years in the RATE OF INCREASE (currently at just about 7% increase per year). This is not a cut over 10 years from zero-based budgeting (zero spending increases each year). So it's not a cut at all, just a slow down in the amount of annual increase.

Originally posted by tkwasny

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Well yipee.... 2 trillion in long term spending cuts. I suppose that might sound dandy if we hadn't added nearly that much in ANNUAL spending within the last few years. Obama and Bush did it, but this 2 trillion over the long term doesn't even bring us back to spending levels at the time Obama took office.

If this is the final arrangement, I believe this is one of the plans Moodys said won't even make a difference to their downgrading U.S. debt ratings...and why should it? This is smoke and mirrors with stinky smoke and rather filthy old mirrors.

No future congresses are required to follow the budget constraints passed by this congress. It never has ever happened in all the history of the US.

Thats 2 trillion over 10 years in the RATE OF INCREASE (currently at just about 7% increase per year). This is not a cut over 10 years from zero-based budgeting (zero spending increases each year). So it's not a cut at all, just a slow down in the amount of annual increase.

Ok, riddle me this. They are going to cut $2 trillion over the next 10 years, yet within the next few years they are increasing the debt ceiling by $2 trillion. How in the hell is that going to solve this debt problem?

Originally posted by METACOMET
It's illegal to say to a voter "Here's $100, vote for me."

So what do the politicians do? They offer the $100 in the form of Health Care, Social Security, Unemployment Insurance, Food Stamps, tobacco subsidies, grain payments, NEA payments, and all sorts of programs. Somehow, the fact that more poor people are on welfare, receiving more generous payments, does not seem to have made this country a nice place to live, not even for the poor on welfare, whose condition seems not noticeably better than when they were poor and off welfare.

The government is really good at one thing. It knows how to break your legs, and then hand you a crutch and say, "See if it weren't for the government, you wouldn't be able to walk."

There are legitimate uses for human institutions but continuation of faceless bureaucracys interested only in centralized planning, theft, socialism, dependence, pauperization, inefficiency, greed waste, while at the same time converting the world into a nursery of "for your own good-ers" and "self-serving busybodies" does not parallel with human happiness.

Just remember that the principal instrument of government is coercion and that our government officials are no more moral, omnipotent, nor omniscient than are any of the rest of us.

edit on 31-7-2011 by METACOMET because: sp

The government is really good at one thing. It knows how to break your legs, and then hand you a crutch and say, "See if it weren't for the government, you wouldn't be able to walk."

I am going to plagurize the be-jeezus outta that one. Thanks.

Originally posted by neo96
right now i am hearing about 500 billion in defense cuts alot of you will be cheering but

what it means,

thousands of military out of work

thousands of suppliers out of work

increased unemployement

increased welfare

increased medicaid

military gets cut you think they are going to have insurance? not so fast


end result billions of lost revenue in to local economies and tax revenue for states and governments.

everyone ends right back up on the government dime

theres your good government for you.

I gave you a star.

I for one swing one way to another on the defense budget. I do think that it is way inflated and can use a little tweaking to save $.........On the other hand peoples jobs are at stake here..........

I for one have a new understanding of this because I just recently got hired on at a industrial construction outfit.........One thing is for shure....the two buildings (in separate locations) are funded by the tax payers......This relates because if the government stops all spending,( like so many here on ATS like to talk about) then this means thousands of jobs are no longer available. There is litterally hundreds of workers from different local areas contracting the work....

Anyways this applies to the defense department too.....Less bombs= equals less switches= one less worker to make the switch.........on a lighter side.....less food to distribute to soldiers = less jobs for the people preparing the food to be shipped to them.

Anyways I am rambling on with nowhere to go.....I agree with some of your political ideas and views.


Hmmmm.....What a debacle. (the budget,,,,,or lack of)

I think that most people really do not think about the bigger picture on certain subjects..........There is no easy fix.

Originally posted by Stargate2012

Originally posted by tkwasny

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Well yipee.... 2 trillion in long term spending cuts. I suppose that might sound dandy if we hadn't added nearly that much in ANNUAL spending within the last few years. Obama and Bush did it, but this 2 trillion over the long term doesn't even bring us back to spending levels at the time Obama took office.

If this is the final arrangement, I believe this is one of the plans Moodys said won't even make a difference to their downgrading U.S. debt ratings...and why should it? This is smoke and mirrors with stinky smoke and rather filthy old mirrors.

No future congresses are required to follow the budget constraints passed by this congress. It never has ever happened in all the history of the US.

Thats 2 trillion over 10 years in the RATE OF INCREASE (currently at just about 7% increase per year). This is not a cut over 10 years from zero-based budgeting (zero spending increases each year). So it's not a cut at all, just a slow down in the amount of annual increase.

Ok, riddle me this. They are going to cut $2 trillion over the next 10 years, yet within the next few years they are increasing the debt ceiling by $2 trillion. How in the hell is that going to solve this debt problem?

No one is talking about the debt. The talk is only on the deficit. Once the deficit is zero, then they can start cutting into additional spending to begin working down the debt. They need to cut out about $1.4T THIS YEAR to NOT add to the debt.

See how disingenuous this whole thing really is?

I don't even know if this will pass through congress, it might not work, just because the markets have rallied doesn't mean we will be fine on the 2nd, they might at the last minute not like the terms and conditions that the house and senate agreed on.

For those who haven't seen it yet, Obama's Announcement: www.examiner.com...

While the finer details need to be examined, at this point it looks like the Republicans 'sorta' gave in to avoid the Default. Why that may be best for the moment, in the long term it appears Obama's simply got more money to blow.

Originally posted by neo96
right now i am hearing about 500 billion in defense cuts alot of you will be cheering but

what it means,

thousands of military out of work

thousands of suppliers out of work

increased unemployement

increased welfare

increased medicaid

military gets cut you think they are going to have insurance? not so fast


end result billions of lost revenue in to local economies and tax revenue for states and governments.

everyone ends right back up on the government dime

theres your good government for you.

i've heard this argument before.

but it cost 1 million dollars a year to keep a soldier in Afganistan.

we need police officers, firemen, our local government work force has been decimated.

if we hired these ex soldiers for profesions that our society needs, we could still save a lot of money.

at least 10 to 20 state and local positions for the price of sustaining a soldier overseas.

the country is broke and needs bridges and to fix at least some pot holes.

isn't time to get out of Guantanamo, Iraq, and Afganistan?

and a hundred other places.

reply to post by citizen6511


ditto heard the same arguement in response and i will say the same thing i said then

police,fireman and local government are local issues and state issues not the federal government

and tax revenue is needed to even begin to pay for those services is non existent when there is a large influx of unemployed people returning from service.

for far too long tax dollars are take from one state and given to another state that gets no benefit from that tax revenue.

reply to post by ShogunAssassins

reply to post by mishigas


Not against those or raising taxes.. Fact is for most people on this site it wont matter what mesures are taken because you are anti gov to start with and nothing will be enough... Then you have the right wingers here who will use that and attempt to make every right wing ideal seem the all spoken word of god.

I don't care what most people on this site think. This is not the ATS that was once filled with good solid debate. Now it's filled with I don't know what whose main skill is character assassination of female conservatives which includes their Down's Syndrome infants. Real tough guys, ya know?

I'm a conservative and so I guess you'll lump me in with your 'right wingers'. So what should I do? Pigeonhole you as a leftie, I guess.

I do firmly believe in my ideals. And nothing can convince me that raising our credit limit and spending more is the right thing to do. And to dig ourselves out of the hole that is swallowing us, why we'll just raise taxes on the evil rich. They won't miss it, they can afford it!

And to convince the average American that this is the way to go, we can use class warfare. For example, we can rally around Tax Loopholes for Those Evil Corporate Jets.

Do you know what the Tax Loopholes for Those Evil Corporate Jets consists of? Do you? It's a rate of depreciation of an asset. They want to change it from 5 years to 7 years or somesuch.

Depreciation is a standard technique in valuation of assets.

But they must PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE! mustn't they?

All the while Michelle Obama and her brood fly to Africa, Paris, wherever on a whim.:shk:

i thought they were going to vote on impeachment

Originally posted by hypr2011
I don't even know if this will pass through congress, it might not work, just because the markets have rallied doesn't mean we will be fine on the 2nd, they might at the last minute not like the terms and conditions that the house and senate agreed on.

Considering the Repubs and the Dems have always been on the same side and fire up a good show to keep the public sniping at each other, instead of them and TPTB, the Tea Party has just been made moot and without any numbers to do anything. It will look like Obama, the Dems and the repubs have riden in on their white horses to save the day and those evil Tea Party idealists were always the problem.

Exactly as planned out in the smokey back rooms after the 2010 election by BOTH SIDES to stop the rabble-rousing tea party public.

reply to post by METACOMET


Oh gee. What a surprise, huh? Wonder what all the theater was about, what went on while we were all arguing about the scripted drama?

reply to post by METACOMET


Star and flag, METACOMET, not for bringing us the news, we saw that on TV, but for this:

Personally I am of the opinion that this is just giving an addict more "crack", so to speak. Politics has become the art of obtaining money from the rich and votes from the poor on the pretext of protecting each from the other. This whole discussion (if you could call it that) shocked me a bit. Instead of coming up with real solutions, this just divided the country upon typical party lines, to the extent that it degraded into childish political name calling and "my team is better than your team" theatrics.

Personally, friend, I feel the same damn way. These minions are addicts for money, and that is all they think about, at work, at play, even when they are sleeping. I would love to see the whole House Of Cards fall down, and the whole truth be known about the PRIVATE BANKING CARTEL known as the Federal Reserve be shut down, and their assets seized, for under the Constitution, only the United States Treasury has the right to coin money.

Section 8 - Powers of Congress

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States; To borrow money on the credit of the United States; To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes; To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States; To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

www.usconstitution.net...

The U.S. Mint produces coins and the Bureau of Engraving and Printing produces currency. Both organizations are bureaus of the U.S. Department of the Treasury.

www.treasury.gov...

The Federal Reserve is a drain on the America people. Along with their Muscle, the Internal Revenue Service, they lay and collect TAXES in a completely illegal manner, draining the coffers and recklessly spending our hard earned money on fake wars, and special interests, and lining their own pockets.

Can any one tell me, what is the true purpose of the war in Afghanistan? I know, bin Laden was there, supposedly, but isn't he dead now? Why are we still there? And what about Iraq? Didn't the Marines whip up on Al-Qaeda? Why are our solders still there? Why is America spending billions of needed dollars on wars that have no purpose, and no end in sight? And what about the famous "War on Drugs?" That one was lost before it began, and the only ones who can see that is us, they cannot see it.

Yeah, keep marijuana illegal, and we can make billions in sales! What a plan! Meanwhile, the Mexican Cartels now have new American made automatic weapons with an ATF stamp on each one. What a prize! Better than a gold plated Rolls Royce! And, it seems the White House was briefed on this? What in hell goes on up there on Capital Hill? We the People expect these people to govern us, run our Nation's business, protect us from invasion, and pay the damn bills as the come in! Are any of these things being done to our complete satisfaction? I think not!

I think America should be ran just like my house is ran. We are a Social Security family, three of us collect a monthly check, that is our only income, except when someone's computer breaks down, then I can make a few extra dollars.

First of the month, we get paid, just like the government does. The first thing we do is PAY OUR BILLS. Rent, Water, Gas, Electricity, Insurance. Paid, paid, paid, paid. What is left, we live on. Simple. We have no use for CREDIT, that is for fools. Pay as we go is our motto, and it is the way things should be done all the way to the White House.

Originally posted by autowrench

I would love to see the whole House Of Cards fall down, and the whole truth be known about the PRIVATE BANKING CARTEL known as the Federal Reserve be shut down, and their assets seized, for under the Constitution, only the United States Treasury has the right to coin money.

Agreed. However, as bad as the federal reserve is, the fault rests with congress. Congress delegated it's constitutional authority to the fed. Thus the blame lies with them.

Remember, the fed has a 100 year charter that ends next year. Maybe they will just take the money and run.

It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning. – Henry Ford

Wow and it only took a month!!!

These guys are freaking awesome!!

I think Boner AND ObAMA deservez da
peeeece piez

Wow look at the futures go after this news was released! Dow is up nearly 200 points already in the futures!
The bad news is the debt will still compound and they will just create more spending that will quickly absorb this meager 100 billion a year.

Apart from saying, I hope you kick their backside outs of congresspersons and senators, next time around on the US Senate and Congress elections for this fiasco.

How long before the next big political fall out over US debts once again?

Is this Obamas downfall? Or will all Americans blame those on Capitol Hill?