Rebuilding Society After The SHTF

I posted a comment on another thread along these lines, and realised that I haven't seen any threads on how people on ATS might attempt to rebuild society after a serious, government ending SHTF situation. If The government fell apart multiple small societies would pop up across the US. Some would be bigger and some would be smaller, and they could range from attempts to remake the current US government to outright dictatorships. That said what form of society would you try to make. I would personaly like to set up a democratic society. I would establish a firmly written constituiton, outlawing slavery, serfdom, indentured servitude, etc. I would also require everyone to be able to participate in the defence of the town, in the military, militia, or as medics or simmillar non-combat roles for the people who don't want to fight. And as i said in the other post, I would use the society set up (by the good guys ) in John Ringo's There Will Be Dragons, though his millitary probably wouldn't be possible. It provides an excellent blueprint of what to do, though, as a fantasy si-fi book it, of course, isn't perfect. And read the book before you call me an idiot for said suggestion.

There is truly nothing left to rebuild, I'd probably want to die then be stuck rebuilding a soulless, empty society

First, we would create a series of tubes and call it the Internet.
Second, we would erect golden arches and worship them as God.
Third, we tear down and start from scratch again.

Why would we want a new society.

I hate society and I hate laws and rules.


I want pure lawlessness and everyone fending for themselves for a few hundred years.

I want no law to be applicable to me or anyone else.

But then again, I prefer chaos and watching people fumble around and petrified for once. Really brings people back to earth. A bit humbling in my opinion.

No need for police and government as it will all eventually become political and greed driven.

reply to post by Heartisblack


With my SHTF scenario there isn't really much to rebuild. Just darkness everywhere and survivors just aimlessly walking not really knowing wtf just happened. Our civilization wouldn't last very long without our advanced medical, food, transportation, and monetary systems. Some would make it because they already have knowledge to live off the land, if there is anything else to live off of.

Originally posted by olliemc84
reply to post by Heartisblack

 

With my SHTF scenario there isn't really much to rebuild. Just darkness everywhere and survivors just aimlessly walking not really knowing wtf just happened. Our civilization wouldn't last very long without our advanced medical, food, transportation, and monetary systems. Some would make it because they already have knowledge to live off the land, if there is anything else to live off of.

That was my thoughts as well, it would be like the Year that never was on Doctor who. The survivours would be huddling and hiding to survive. Nice to know we think alike

I think after SHTF as far as building society back up, at first it would be all back to basics. Agriculture and simple housing. Figuring out how to hunt and be efficient about using everything gathered from hunting. Somehow I think communications should stay in place more or less, at least by radio. It would be like starting over, as long as we at least have access to natural water sources we have a good chunk of time to figure things out. If TSHTF then how will things be controlled by governments? There will be no money to pay the military and police and it will come down to the people.

The problem is more and more that corporations control the food supply and the people become less and less prepared to provide for themselves at a local level. Hopefully if something like this happens it will have a sobering effect and people will have more respect for life and common sense, but if it doesn't things will be made very hard by pillagers of whatever sort.

I don't really care if we lose a lot of so called "progress" what matters is that people survive and find a way to keep themselves hydrated, fed, and sheltered. That's what has always mattered, screw progress humanity is more important.

Which makes me think that the timing of TSHTF will be crucial. If it happens during the planting season then people all over will be able to plant mass crops anywhere and everywhere. If otherwise then I guess it will be more about hunting, and more difficult.

reply to post by Heartisblack

I'm really not quite that pessimistic, myself. I think in some areas, what you describe isn't just possible but highly likely. I wouldn't want to get within 250 miles of Chicago, New York, Los Angeles or any other major city for months or even years following a total collapse of order and society. Outside of those big cities and out in rural America (what has always REALLY defined and made America) I think we'll see a very different situation.

It'll get violent, brutal and downright cruel to anyone who isn't very forward and armed to defend it for awhile. Like others have said, no cops means Smith and Wesson are your only friends in this world and without them, it's taking your fists to gunfights...over and over or just submitting to being a victim and taking it, hoping you survive it. I've made my choice long ago, which side I'll be classified as. Time may be short for others to think about it in a dead serious context and play out the possibilities in the minds eye, at least, to get right with the decisions you can live with when the time comes. Deciding for the very first time under life and death pressure and stress is a great approach to having that decision made for you and not by anyone with your best interests in mind.

Having said that....I don't think Rural America will take long to organize enough areas to give us all a place to be safe, if we choose to. Many militia's and even rural law enforcement agencies have already thought this out in great detail and planned in real ways how to close, regulate and administer their county or region while cutting off chaos from anywhere else.

I have hope...I really do. It'll be a very hard time....for awhile....but it'll eventually improve and our Children today will be the ones at ribbon cutting ceremonies and memorials when they come of age to remember what it took to give them a better world than we found ourselves in.

OF Course........If some looney moron decides global military conflict would be a dandy thing to try out at about the same time..I suppose Mad Max would be a far more accurate description for the vew small % who survive it with good health.

One of the things I've learnt from my ongoing study of the collapse of complex societies that that the government itself never collapses unless there is an outright invasion followed by sustained occupation.

Instead, what usually happens is that the previous form of government continues in some form, but it becomes less and less relevant. Names are "updated," but the tools of government are "streamlined" until no longer recognizable.

I am convinced from my research that Rome as an empire actually had collapsed earlier than most historians date it (by 300 AD), but the same old labels were used, when the political reality had been already transformed.

I believe that Constantine effectively founded a new state. He used old terms for the sake of continuity.

In the West, Rome itself was the last outpost. There are folks who continued to proclaim themselves "Emperor of the West," but the title meant almost nothing. By 480, warlords of the city had quit even bothering to use the title. the population had declined by 95%, and most of the Urbis Romanae was literally a crumbling tomb, with weeds growing in the streets and flocks of sheep grazing among the ruins.

The Western church claimed the legacy, hence the title "Roman Catholic Church" even as its administrative center shifted to the foothills of the alps. And Charlemagne styled himself as "Holy Roman Emperor," but had none of the other imperial institutions.

So what does this mean for us?

Probably that movies like "The Postman", and "High Plains Drifter" show how government will be re-created after the fall.

That's what America did, self-consciously copying the trappings of Rome, as the antidote to the British Empire: The imperial eagle, the "Senate" as a title for the governing body, with a fasces as it's emblem, the capitol modeled on the Roman Pantheon. They put on the respectability of the ancients, like children playing dress-up.

This happened time and again. Charlemagne's grandfather had been a king's butler. The ruling house of Scotland, the Stuarts, were originally the "stewards"---accountants, of an ancient regime. The same with every ruling house in practically every country, as well as every revolutionary republic.

True then, and true down to the Texas frontier, when "judge" Roy Bean proclaimed himself as "Law, west of the Pecos," armed with A Bible, a copy of Black's law dictionary, and a sawed-off shotgun.

Like Ceasar in the original planet of the apes; you pen some Sacred Scrolls, and start calling yourself "the Lawgiver" when you have a band of followers.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

Thanks i'm 41 miles from Chicago, you make me feel cuddly and warm.

You arent really going to have to worry about it because there are going to only be a handfull of us left.

reply to post by JDBlack


If such a scenario ever happened, there are many towns within the US, and I would guess, the world that are well on their way to being prepared. The small town my Sis lives in has opened a town garden in the center of it and many of the towns people putter about there throughout the week. They sell what they grow at the local grocers.

The population is only 900 + or -. Everybody pretty much knows everybody. Plenty of farmers in the area and the hunting and fishing is awesome.

I believe that it will be the smaller towns, not cities that will pave the way for civilization to return.

I dont think it matters how you will rebuild a society, eventually people will become complacent and open the door for corruption to set in and spread. Its human nature, not much that can be done about it.

Certainly we know the Apes will copy Hi-Point rifles and use nets and bullwhips........scroll 29: only apes have minds and souls.

Humanity on the whole are leeches of a few technical engineers. Eventually all of the things will break and since no one will remember or know how they work, they will be discarded and left to the past. I believe that hope for rebuilding will come from securing the few libraries and whatever books have not already been recycled. I see everyone say get a kindle and store all your books. Can they repair the micro circuits in a kindle? nope. They will own a square of plastic. suitable for a coaster or trivet.

Threat assessment is critical in understanding the collapse. Space events, such as asteroids and the very Sun itself are the most probable. Though man can ruin anything. EMP from the sun or our own weapons has the highest degree of likelihood. I can see a die off of 80% or higher. Mostly from stupidity and lack of personal and governmental preparedness.

In all cases the event and the speed of recovery will decide if any govt still exists. A govt that renders no benefits will evaporate into vapor and disappear. So it will be around the globe.Local-ism will take hold. A country will be as the states are now. The distance you can travel on foot in several days. War lords will spring up, and they will take land and people for slaves. Sometimes killing everyone they find just to take the land and resources. Much like the biblical days.

I see a second steam age taking hold before a recovery. Steam tractors replacing the modern digital, air conditioned wonders. They will come first. Then the old belt driven steam factories and machine shops will pop up. As steam driven machine shops come so will the ability to restore what once was.

We have let idiots govern us. Unlike the founders who were active workers, each being productive in their own trades we have let leeches sit in those seats. People who live to do nothing but sit in them. People with zero practical knowledge of the real world besides what the people who hand them envelopes of cash tell them.

No I don't believe our govts around the world will have any chance of coming back. What we have is doomed. Everything will ride on who is left and what vision they have. Idiots will choose Democracy. The system that fails. Wise men will choose with a 2/3 majority.

I began thinking about what you asked after reading your comment to my composition paper. I had initially replied with my primary thoughts, but after giving it a nights thought and taking what I have learned from my comparative cultures, and history classes here is my idea.

I have always believed that there will be a remnant of survivors. These survivors will have it difficult and need a path to survive.

A community style organization needs to make certain that everyone has a voice. This will need to include people younger than we consider adult of this day and age. In an EOTW or SHTF situation you will need everyone that can carry a weapon, hunt, fish, or even scout. (young children make the best scouts they are hard to notice, and have you ever played hide and seek with one of them?) This means that anyone that works in the community to help provide should have at least a slight voice. This means probably down to the age of ten maybe a little younger. Considering a friend of mine has a daughter that is only 8, but highly intelligent and has great insight into things, I wouldn't mind taking some of her advice at times.

Next thing that will be important is to make certain that everyone understands that any harm to any member of the community is harm to everyone, therefore the punishments must be harsh. If you rape you die, if you murder you die, if you steal you die. Any form of harm to the community must be punished as if that person has killed a member, because any harmful action can kill someone in the end.

Don't let the community get too large, it would be better to break up into smaller groups once you reach about 300. Over that and the situation can begin to sway in one direction or the other. Also keeping communities small helps prevent wars in the future. That also helps prevent the destruction of the ecology as we see in our major cities.

Next thing to do is to begin to live with nature, use things of nature to provide our power. If we started taking care of the land properly it would provide for us forever no matter the size of the population. When I here people say that there is an area that is inhospitable I must laugh. Man can conquer any area, and we can do it without harming the natural surroundings if we are careful. Therefore there is enough land to take care of a few more billion of us if we manage our resources properly. Though after a SHTF or EOTW situation, there will probably be about 1/4 the current population.

From there I am not honestly sure where to go with the governance preparations for how to manage a community. I know I may sound harsh and uncaring, but I would rather kill or banish the one troublemaker now, than have him cause more harm now. Kill over banish, for he could go out and find another group of like-minded individuals and bring them back and slaughter us all.

After the SHTF I would want to build a community that remembers our past mistakes writes them firmly into books teach the newer generations, never ever allow a large body to govern you, i.e. governments. I would hope small communties pop up and each community work with their resources eventually trading to other communities but keep it simple like pre 1900`s .I would say ,never will society become so high tech that civilization will beable to destroy each other at the tap of a button. I guess the communities would have to have some sort of law as to keep crime out, but as for a military no I dont want a military it is a move towards dicatorship. And every man woman and child aroudn age 13 or 14 will work with the community to sustain the community. thanks for the thread enjoyed it

reply to post by JDBlack


If I had the money and the interest I wouldn't wait for the SHTF I would build it right now...
we already have several models for how it should be set up... small self sufficient communities that now produce 60 % of their commodities... food water power... not built as a commune but a more modern apartment complex where all the resents are expected to put in a set numbers of hours in the gardens and green houses but then are free to pursue other business ventures... for those with no paid jobs a barter system is established... IOU's can be traded for those extra things everyone wants...

you know I love to take those lessons and apply them here... reinvent the way we live as it were... lord knows we cant keep going the way we are now... and I don't like waiting for someone else to make my life choices when I can damn well do it myself...

my plan for rebuilding:

put everyone on the left on one side then put everyone on the right side on another

build a wall and then step back and see what "civilzation" lasts longer.