The Tea Party is anti-democratic and guilty of abuse of power

Originally posted by inforeal
The Tea Party is anti-democratic and guilty of abuse of power


Amazing people here don’t see that the blackmail that the Tea party is doing to the US government is dictatorial, anti-democratic, anathema to the US constitution, dangerous, and is setting a precedent for worst things to come.


Here is the scenario:

These 85 or so congress people voted in office in 2010 by Tea party support are not remotely the majority of the American people, yet they are using their newly acquired power to threaten the American system of government with default if they don’t get there way. In this scenario it is the debt ceiling that they are using to do their blackmail. Previously, raising the debt ceiling was, is, and has been a bi-partisan simple process, that even the conservative Republican Ronald Regan has denounced people for playing politics with. They, the Tea party are using this vulnerable part of the Governmental system to blackmail it . . . it’s that simple. This is an abuse of power, undemocratic, and fascistic. And those who do not see it this way. . . don’t because they are partial to the cause of the Tea party Republicans. When this very undemocratic method one day is turned against them—then they will see the danger that this is to a democracy. Turn the tables: what if 85 extreme left-wing congress people did the same thing to the country? How would you then feel about that?

As of now because of these people the US economy will likely default and enormous economic disasterous repercussions will be resultant.

So bottom line, 85 freshman congress people who don’t represent even 1 percent of the American people have taken over the Republican Party and have blackmailed the system to do their bidding and if not have threatened to destabilize the American economic system.

That is anti-democratic, and an abuse of power, and opposite everything the spirit and letter of the US constitution stands for.

I dont think you have a clue.... so il spell it out for you in simple terms THE CEILING IS NOT THE PROBLEM ..... THE DEBT IS!!!! you cant cure a drug addict by giving them more drugs.
A forced default will force the government to end its wars and start getting the house in order... whats gona happen after a default is the equivilint of cold turkey, and its gona be hard for everyone but its a nessecery evil.

reply to post by inforeal


The "tea party" is not just 85 members of congress. Not sure and can't prove exactly what percentage they would be of the population, but my guess is more than 50%. If you take away the Left, moderate republicans(in name only) and the real few centrists, what is it, East coast-Left coast, most of middle america has the mindset to the "tea party".

Originally posted by inforeal
reply to post by KrazyJethro

 

America is a democracy and Republic!

The Tea party I said is anti-democratic. They have not remotely the majority of the American people supporting their issues and certainly not their methods.

Definition of democracy: a: government by the people; especially : rule of the majority

Please check your information. The US is not a democracy and never has been. I disagree with most of your posts, but you are smarter than this. The US is a Constitutional Republic, at least for now anyway.

reply to post by inforeal


It would appear that not only is the Tea Party/GOP guilty of abuse of power, they are also guilty of violating section 4 of the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution in that it clearly states that the legal debts of this nation "shall not be questioned."


www.usconstitution.net...

4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

What this means is that the nation's debt shall not be used as a bargaining tool in the political arena which is precisely what the T.P./GOP is currently doing. I cannot think of a more pathetic display of unadulterated compassionless ignorance that that being currently displayed by the Tea Party.

On the other hand, my belief in "divine order" tells me that this entire experience was necessary in order to expose their true agenda for all of the world to see, thereby insuring that these mindless idiots will never be elected to office again.

reply to post by inforeal


The Tea Party is the definition of democracy. These folks were elected and they are doing what they were elected to do and that is to oppose the nonsense which is the federal government.

Democracy is not tossing your principals out the window in order to reach a compromise, that is what we have been led to believe it to be. Democracy is about standing for your own principals and views and let the business sort itself out. Thats the way it is supposed to work. Democracy is about changing the opinions of the electorate to create a majority position - it is not supposed to be easy to do that.

The smoke filled rooms of the two majority party system is not democracy. Passing bills that are thousands of pages long that are not made readily available for public consumption and are written in formats that are quite difficult to decipher is not democracy. Using accounting tricks that manipulate the truth is not democracy. Tagging bills with items which have absolutely nothing to do with the intention of the bill so that when it gets voted down the tagger can gain political clout is not democracy. The manipulation of the current system and its total lack of transparency is not democratic. It is the antithisis of democracy

The Tea Party is a political movement. Now if they make the decision to obstruct the current deal brokering in Washington one of a few things will happen, either the economy will crash and not recover, in which case they will suffer the consequences at the next election or it will crash, meaningful reforms put into place and recover and they will increase in numbers or it won't crash and they will increase in numbers.

Either way, they are here to stay. There is little difference between much of the economic policies of the Tea Party and those espoused by Ross Perot and he determined the outcome of an election.

The hiprocracy in the media is astounding. So the market loses 1/3 of its value next week? Where was the market in 2009 and where is it today? Markets come back and 90% of these blow hards in the media have instructions out to their brokers to move into cash and then buy back into the market when and if it tanks. So interest rates go up? Interest rates are too low already, depressing the dollar. Lets take the pain in the short term for long term sanity in the budget.

If you think the Tea Party is anti-democracy you need to read a bit of what Plato intended when he wrote of "rule by the governed". That was a direct democracy where all eligible men could vote and majority ruled. A voting block, was intended to have significant clout.

The Tea Party is the most fundamentally democratic movement that has come on the scene in over 100 years and that is why the establishment is scared to death of it.

Originally posted by inforeal
America is a democracy and Republic!

The Tea party I said is anti-democratic. They have not remotely the majority of the American people supporting their issues and certainly not their methods.

Definition of democracy: a: government by the people; especially : rule of the majority

Well I can only it explain it to you so many times. Even by your definition you are wrong. America is not ruled by the majority, especially since the Constitution is anti-majoritarian by it's very nature. If this was not true and we were ruled democratically, the civil rights act would never have been passed among other things.

Obviously the tea party people were elected. If they were not elected and simply placed there despite what the voters wanted, THAT would be anti-democratic.

We are a Constitutional Republic. Learn it, live it, love it. If you still disagree, google what the founders thought of democracy. They hated the idea and thought it was the quickest road to tyranny (which it is). Without knowing fundamental things about America, how can people take your views seriously?

Peace
KJ

Originally posted by inforeal
reply to post by SpaDe_

 

They were voted in by a majority of the voting populace and they never abused the system like the Republicans are doing now. That’s the point of my OP.

They NEVER threatened to destabilize the economic system if they didn’t get their way.

These people were also voted in democratically... deal with it. Just because the democrats controlled both house and senate did not mean they represented a majority of the population. If that was the case then how did they get voted out? Deny ignorance!

reply to post by dakota1s2


Do you think most of America would support the threat of the default of the american economic system to get thier political issues enacted ?

My hostility towards the Tea Party comes not from any perceived lack of respect in regards to the democratic process, contrary, they have leaned too thoughtlessly on the democratic process and the constant willingness to invoke the public name so as to justify their values seems rather unsettling. When you are dedicated to a specific object there should be little regard for public opinion on the matter, dismiss the foes and appreciate the allies, but do not let either direct your actions. Be steadfast in your devotion to principle, unwavering in your vision, and unapologetic in the face of adversity.

People wait tirelessly for visionaries, ones who are willing to do bold things with a total lack of regard for the political consequences. The people, who will strangle the opposition into submission, humiliate and demoralize them, yet still be willing to stand firm even if an onslaught of negative attacks occur. So forget this whole ‘democracy’ bit, so long as the respect for our nation, our institutions, and our citizens’ stands within your beliefs pursue your goals tirelessly with the ferocity of a lion.

Originally posted by sons of liberty 1776
reply to post by citizen6511

 

The tea party as the brown shirts? Are you serious? Please do some real research on the Wiemar Republic and the brownshirts before making such a crazy claim.

the similarities are endless, the only difference is the Americanization of the movement.

they operate as bullies, are financed by corporate interests using them to maintain their tax and other privileges.

are pretending to be saving the nation, while they are by far the biggest threat the USA has faced in years.

cut benefits to the vulnerable and old, and worship those who have wealth and power.
survival of the fittest, to hell with everybody else.

the worship of all that is military.

the hatred of jews has been replaced by hating a black president.

the ingredients might be different, but the political soup is the same.

Originally posted by inforeal
reply to post by dakota1s2

 

Do you think most of America would support the threat of the default of the american economic system to get thier political issues enacted ?

I don't think most Americans will wipe the drool from their chin or turn off the idiot box long enough to notice or care.

Originally posted by inforeal
reply to post by dakota1s2

 

Do you think most of America would support the threat of the default of the american economic system to get thier political issues enacted ?

The threat of default???

wow.

The Tea Party is trying to save the country. If it takes a default to do it, then by god! that's what we need to do. Spending our way out of this mess has worked realy well. So we should do more of the same?

reply to post by citizen6511


Where do you get your information? You need to seek other sources. The information you are getting is more than a bit biased.

Originally posted by inforeal
Do you think most of America would support the threat of the default of the american economic system to get thier political issues enacted ?

If you put it that way, probably not but it's not the most neutral of questions. A little history helps since most Americans are history retarded (literally).

Ever since Nixon we have been pushing this bubble down the road, and every 10 years it would surface worse than the decade before until 2008 when we came close to the whole thing bursting (48 hours to the end to be precise). They have done it again with massive loans in a system that is literally based on the maintenance of debt. You can hardly sustain a consumption economy, let alone one based on debt because in order to grow it you have to reduce the value of money, increase debt, or both.

You can do neither forever and without taking the bitter pill this will all lead to destruction (worse in the long run). Perhaps you could ask if people would support holding firm on long-term economic sustainability, even if it means not compromising on what it takes to get it done.

Wording is important in these types of things. Your version is terribly skewed.

Peace
KJ

Originally posted by citizen6511

Originally posted by sons of liberty 1776
reply to post by citizen6511

 

The tea party as the brown shirts? Are you serious? Please do some real research on the Wiemar Republic and the brownshirts before making such a crazy claim.

the similarities are endless, the only difference is the Americanization of the movement.

they operate as bullies, are financed by corporate interests using them to maintain their tax and other privileges.

are pretending to be saving the nation, while they are by far the biggest threat the USA has faced in years.

cut benefits to the vulnerable and old, and worship those who have wealth and power.
survival of the fittest, to hell with everybody else.

the worship of all that is military.

the hatred of jews has been replaced by hating a black president.

the ingredients might be different, but the political soup is the same.

Wow, you seriously need a clue.

The Sturmabteilung (SA) (German pronunciation: [ˈʃtʊʁmʔapˌtaɪlʊŋ] ( listen); English: Storm Detachment; or English: Stormtroopers) functioned as a paramilitary organization of the German Nazi Party. It played a key role in Adolf Hitler's rise to power in the 1920s and 1930s. SA men were often called "brownshirts" for the colour of their uniforms (similar to Benito Mussolini's blackshirts).

The SA was the first Nazi paramilitary group to develop pseudo-military titles for bestowal upon its members. The SA ranks were adopted by several other Nazi Party groups, chief amongst them the SS, itself originally a branch of the SA. Brown-coloured shirts were chosen as the SA uniform because a large batch of them were cheaply available after World War I, having originally been ordered during the war for colonial troops posted to Germany's former African colonies.[1]

The SA became largely irrelevant after Adolf Hitler ordered the "Blood Purge" of 1934. This event became known as the Night of the Long Knives. The SA was effectively superseded by the SS, though never formally dissolved.

A permanent group of party members who would serve as the Saalschutz Abteilung (hall defense detachment) for the DAP gathered around Emil Maurice after the February 1920 incident at the Hofbräuhaus. There was little organization or structure to this group, however. The group was also called the Ordnertruppen around this time.[5] More than a year later, on 3 August 1921, Hitler redefined the group as the "Gymnastic and Sports Division" of the party (Turn- und Sportabteilung), perhaps to avoid trouble with the government.[6] It was by now well recognized as an appropriate, even necessary, function or organ of the party. The future SA developed by organizing and formalizing the groups of ex-soldiers and beer hall brawlers who were to protect gatherings of the Nazi Party from disruptions from Social Democrats and Communists. By September 1921 the name Sturmabteilung was being used informally for the group.[7] Hitler, it should be noted, was the official head of the Nazi Party by this time.[8]

From April 1924 until late February 1925 the SA was known as the Frontbann to try to circumvent Bavaria's ban on the Nazi Party and its organs (instituted after the abortive Beer Hall putsch of November 1923). The SA carried out numerous acts of violence against socialist groups throughout the 1920s, typically in minor street-fights called Zusammenstöße ('collisions'). As the Nazis evolved from an extremist political party to the unquestioned leaders of the government, the SA was no longer needed for its original purpose: the acquisition of political power. An organization that could inflict more subtle terror and obedience was needed, and the SA (which had been born out of street violence and beer hall brawls) was simply not capable of doing so. The SA also posed a threat to the Nazi leadership and to Hitler's goal of co-opting the Reichswehr to his ends, as Röhm's ideal was to incorporate the "antiquated" German army into a new "people's army": the SA. The younger SS was more suited to this task and began to take over the previously held roles of the SA.

reply to post by KrazyJethro


Your problem is that you are being too literal. Democracy and republic are similar and republics utilize the democratic system of voting and majority rule to operate. In reality nothing is all one thing and all not the other thing. That's why America is a democracy and republic not all of one over the other.

Sure we don’t have a real democracy because most people don’t vote BUT, the system then has to operate on some form of rule from the standpoint of the elected officials without extreme measures and threats to the system [ as the tea party is doing] based on trust.

Your mentioning civil rights are a case in point. Sure the populace might not have supported it at the time, nevertheless the civil rights laws were passed based on the lawful democratic system of voting in the congress. They were not put in law by threat or blackmail.

Originally posted by citizen6511

Originally posted by sons of liberty 1776
reply to post by citizen6511

 

The tea party as the brown shirts? Are you serious? Please do some real research on the Wiemar Republic and the brownshirts before making such a crazy claim.

the similarities are endless, the only difference is the Americanization of the movement.

they operate as bullies, are financed by corporate interests using them to maintain their tax and other privileges.

are pretending to be saving the nation, while they are by far the biggest threat the USA has faced in years.

cut benefits to the vulnerable and old, and worship those who have wealth and power.
survival of the fittest, to hell with everybody else.

the worship of all that is military.

the hatred of jews has been replaced by hating a black president.

the ingredients might be different, but the political soup is the same.

Do you "really" believe the stuff your saying ? Really ? You can't actually see that the democrat party are the fascists seeking to implement a socialist government, and that Oobamah is a Hugo Chavez wanna be ?

It's time to ween the socialist babies off the the taxpayer nipple.

Originally posted by inforeal
reply to post by KrazyJethro

 

Your problem is that you are being too literal. Democracy and republic are similar and republics utilize the democratic system of voting and majority rule to operate. In reality nothing is all one thing and all not the other thing. That's why America is a democracy and republic not all of one over the other.

Sure we don’t have a real democracy because most people don’t vote BUT, the system then has to operate on some form of rule from the standpoint of the elected officials without extreme measures and threats to the system [ as the tea party is doing] based on trust.

Your mentioning civil rights are a case in point. Sure the populace might not have supported it at the time, nevertheless the civil rights laws were passed based on the lawful democratic system of voting in the congress. They were not put in law by threat or blackmail.

edit on 30-7-2011 by inforeal because: (no reason given)

You are totally wrong. In a DEMOCRACY, the civil rights movement(ie rights for minorities) would never have passed.

I think the tea party has sold out. I see the same playbook used to force Obamacare down everyones throat. Divide and create fear and panic. And THERE is no such thing as democrat or republican anymore. They are all just politicians. They will perform their theater and then pass it. Has anyone checked who will be coming up for election and then compare their vote on the debt ceiling bill.???

I'm ready for it to all come crashing down. Screw the stock market and the banks. We need to scrap about 90% of the federal government and roll back about 90% of rules and regulations as well as quit wasting money on UN and foreign aid. Throw in a low flat tax with no deductions that everyone pays and a 2 term limit on congress. Get rid of the notion that politics is a career, I would rather take the hit now that have it go nuclear in a few years.

GO TEA PARTY!!