"A Visualization of United States Debt" - Hopelessness comes to mind

I searched ATS to make sure this hasn't been posted before. I didn't find anything, but if I missed a thread somewhere, mods feel free to remove it.

A couple of days ago I came across an interesting link titled "A visualization of United States Debt". Being curious as to what our debt "looks" like, I clicked on it to find a shocking and hopeless truth (assuming that the mathematics are correct). The link has a somewhat humorous title, and I can relate: WTFnoway.com

Unfortunately I can't post the images here, so please follow the link and scroll down for the step-by-step visuals of our national debt. When you finally come to the bottom, you'll probably start wondering how in hell we buried ourselves this deep, and what sort of catastrophic event it would take to wipe it all away. I thought about spending cuts, even tax hikes, but still it seems absolutely hopeless. It would take generations upon generations to pay it all off, and that's assuming that we stop all spending right now.

I find it incredibly funny that our "leaders" preach financial responsibility to the rest of us, yet they themselves seem to have absolutely NO restraint! We have Harvard and Yale graduates (supposedly the best-educated people in the country) "representing" us, yet they don't seem to understand simple mathematics. Of course it is debatable whether they "understand" it, but simply don't give a flying %&*% what it will do to the country as a whole as long as they have big houses, nice cars, and big yachts docked right outside their back yard.

Who is to blame here? Politicians, the lawyers working for them and the Corporations who dare buy them for their own benefit (everyone else be damned) are to blame. (Let's keep in mind that not all corporations and businesses run on that same model, many of whom have been incredibly beneficial to us and who treat their employees with respect)

WE are also to blame for allowing it to go on this long! WE are to blame for keeping them in office! WE are to blame for keeping our eyes closed for decades on end. WE are to blame for not remaining vigilant, and instead sinking deeper and deeper into contentment when we shouldn't be. We've been too lazy and comfortable, and only now that the garbage is starting to reek, filling the entire house with an unbearable stink, we finally remembered we forgot to take out the trash. This is a very hard lesson to learn. Many will suffer before things get better. Try not to live beyond your means, boys and girls, and do your best not to rely on your Government for help when it all comes crashing down. They do not have your best interest at heart.

This is actually a good place to start when trying to understand the true nature of how bad things are.

People who will argue about one billion put options or about miniscule things such as social security (miniscule in terms of the cost) need to really do their research so that they're empowered enough to understand what has caused this to get as bad as it is, and why it is as bad as it is.

It all stems from that fateful day in 1913.

Makes a person wonder if any politician in the last 100 years ever bothered to take Macroeconomics in college.

Truly a stunning visualization for folks to ponder.

Now if you'll excuse me I'm going to plug the 114.5 trillion dollar figure into Excel and divide by 307 million, the population of the US.....






HOLY CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Houston, we have a problem here!

I see only two real solutions.

One: the cutting of the US government to essentially defense and security and interstate commerce (all vastly reduced), and keeping similiar current revenues for the next 30 or so years.

OR:

The dissolution of the United States to it's independent states. If the US no longer existed, and the 50 states made to go it alone, it would be ugly, but no single state would or likely could be held accountable for the debt. Many states are economically doing well (many are not). States like Texas and Alaska can export oil. Oklahoma can export both oil/natural gas and wheat. Kansas, Iowa, Nebraska, and other plains states also can export food particulaily wheat, corn, and soy.

Originally posted by Mr Objectivity
This is actually a good place to start when trying to understand the true nature of how bad things are.

People who will argue about one billion put options or about miniscule things such as social security (miniscule in terms of the cost) need to really do their research so that they're empowered enough to understand what has caused this to get as bad as it is, and why it is as bad as it is.

It all stems from that fateful day in 1913.

It always makes me laugh when I hear politicians say "We're going to cut 100 million or even 1 billion in spending". That's NOTHING! It makes a tiny little bit of difference, I guess every small step is something, but when we're talking billions and trillions in debt, it's a drop in the ocean.

We can't afford to keep paying their bloated salaries and benefits anymore. We can't keep going overseas and wasting money we didn't have to begin with over there. We can't continue to prop up every healthy human being who's been "down on their luck" for the last 10 years. We can't keep funding scientific studies that tell us "water is good for you", or funding statistical studies that tell us "7 in 10 Americans prefer to take showers in the morning". We can't keep funding illegal immigrants and simply giving away free healthcare to them, because we don't have enough for even ourselves. We can't afford to house millions of people in jail for non-violent, victim-less, petty crimes. We can't afford to fund many of the non-vital programs that keep on eating away at the tax payer. Let the private sector donate to these programs when necessary. The Government decided to hand everyone money we didn't have, pocketed an enormous portion of that money, and now they're crying because they want an even bigger loan so they can continue to do the things that proved fatal to this country. Un-F$$$$$-believable.

I guess they figured that by the time they were old men and women, they wouldn't care if the world went to hell. They wouldn't be alive to live it and suffer through it, so who cares? Live it up now and screw the future!

reply to post by SrWingCommander


There's a better and easier third option: hyperinflate your way out of debt.

Originally posted by eldard
reply to post by SrWingCommander

 

There's a better and easier third option: hyperinflate your way out of debt.

Well, that may happen soon enough! Can't say I'm looking forward to that.

Just to play Devil's Advocate here:

1. The same graphic *could* be used to show how impressive America's annual GDP (roughly $14.8 Trillion) is.
2. If you really want to be blown away, develop a graphic showing the debt in pennies! (I say this to point out that measuring a quantity in any arbitrary unit of monetization can be either as awe inspiring as you want it to or as blah as you want it to be.)

Originally posted by burdman30ott6
Just to play Devil's Advocate here:

1. The same graphic *could* be used to show how impressive America's annual GDP (roughly $14.8 Trillion) is.
2. If you really want to be blown away, develop a graphic showing the debt in pennies! (I say this to point out that measuring a quantity in any arbitrary unit of monetization can be either as awe inspiring as you want it to or as blah as you want it to be.)

That is definitely a very good point. Maybe the graphic we need is a comparison between the amount of money coming in, and the amount of money going out including interest. I'd love to see that pie chart. Although this one is shocking, I think a comparison between what's coming in and what's going out would make people understand better.

When you owe the bank 100 dollars: it is your problem.

When you owe the bank 1 million dollars: it is their problem.

When you owe the bank 2 trillion dollars: it is everybody's problem.

When you owe the bank trillions and trillions: it is no body's problem.

The owing isn't the issue, as long as folks keep paying the interest the principal does not matter at all. No one is expected to every pay off the loans, that's why the are so freely given out.

I have definetly been concerned about the national debt and have heard a possibility of the world currency to be moved from the U.S. which would obviously hinder us from printing money for our own use but thats another topic.\

I know the U.S. brings in a lot of money to this country regardlus of whats being paid out, how much of that is actually seen by the average american.

There are so many filters that the upper class has that not even the middle class gets the amount it used to. Im talking about people with degrees and college education are having problems finding work, and that was un- heard of in the 90's. Corporations have flooded this country to the point that they hold the cards and call the shots which i believe will be the downfall of this country.

I don't know who posted first but here is an existing thread

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by Nomad451
I don't know who posted first but here is an existing thread

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Looks like mine was up before the other one, only by a few hours.

Louise Slaughter has just proposed, on live broadcast, the complete removal of the debt ceiling.

I could not believe it. They are actually proposing unlimited supplies of dollars! This is genius! It solves all the problems! In fact... why not give all americans a dollar card to access the pool themselves.

www.c-span.org...