Time Slips and Olde England...maybe?

There’s an excellent article by Mike Dash over at the Smithsonian blog that should catch the imagination of ATS. It deals with an apparent case of ‘time-slips.'

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The bare bones of the story involve three young Naval cadets trying to find their way to a designated location, way back in ‘57. When they arrived, it was as if they’d wandered into a village that had been suspended in time like a bug in amber…

Looking back, the really strange thing was the silence. The way the church bells stopped ringing as the little group of naval cadets neared the village. The way even the ducks stood quiet and motionless by the shallow stream that ran across the road where the main street began.

And, when the boys thought about it afterward, they recalled that even the autumn birdsong faded as they neared the first houses. The wind had dropped to nothing, too.

Not a leaf stirred on the trees they passed. And the trees appeared to cast no shadows.

When Three British Boys Traveled to Medieval England (Or Did They?)

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Spooky stuff, huh? Exploring the silent village, they approached a building and looked through the dirty windows to see the carcasses of oxen mouldering inside. One of them recalled how…

There were no tables or counters, just two or three whole oxen carcasses which had been skinned and in places were quite green with age. There was a green-painted door and windows with smallish glass panes, one at the front and one at the side, rather dirty-looking.

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I remember that as we three looked through that window in disbelief at the green and mouldy green carcasses… the general feeling certainly was one of disbelief and unreality…

The story came to light in the ‘90s and was investigated quite thoroughly. Old maps were studied and efforts were made to try and identify *when* the village looked this way. It was found that the building described was once a butcher’s shop in the 18th Century. Some felt that the boys could have stumbled into a period just after the Black Death in the 14th Century. A creepy time in anyone’s imagination…who knows?

Mike Dash investigates the evidence and favours (on probability) the explanation that they hadn’t wandered into a peculiar ‘no man’s land,’ but had experienced a condition known as derealisation

Derealization (sometimes abbreviated as DR) is an alteration in the perception or experience of the external world so that it seems strange or unreal. Other symptoms include feeling as though one's environment is lacking in spontaneity, emotional coloring and depth.

Derealisation isn’t a group activity, according to the literature, rather than a personal experience. That doesn’t rule it out as an explanation, it seems to have been an anomalous experience and anything remains possible...

What strikes me, is the descriptions of the carcasses and the building they lay in. According to the evidence, and factors, in the article, they remain, in my view, anomalous. If it was during the Black Death period, glazed windows were an uncommon luxury. If it was 1957, why would rotting carcasses be laying in an empty building?

It's a thought-provoking account and a good piece of research by Dash. Imagining the experience leaves an uncomfortable feeling...like reading a good ghost story.

its amazing how much we dont understand about time and space our existence seems more and more "static" all the time

reply to post by Kandinsky


The op sounds like a bad acid trip to me. I had a psychedelic experience that was shared with not only me but another friend. There was a mansion where a solid field had stood hours earlier. Time kep repeating itself. 1:12 AM multiple times for 6 hours. I would go more into the story but my memory is a little hazy from that experience. However you could read the full story and multiple similar ones on www.erowid.com and a list of multiple other drug experience sites. Not sure which one I posted it on but I am almost sure it is erowid.

Great thread my friend. As a child i experienced a similar phenomenon with my friends... crawling through a hedge and entering what appeared to be another realm. When you are younger it doesnt seem odd, so you dont notice, however as you grow older you tell yourself it was just your imagination. sad really.

reply to post by 11165
A UK researcher, Dave Sadler, has a story of visiting a church with his daughter and a friend. His kid was running around a building and, he describes, as she ran around a corner, she appeared immediately on the other side. I've no idea if he's telling the truth, but his account sprung to mind when I read the article. He tells it on Paul Kimball's podcast...here.

The best known is probably the Moberley-Jourdain incident when two women thought they'd stumbled into the 18th Century gardens of Louis XVI.

They passed this road, and entered a lane, where unknown to them they passed their destination. Moberly noticed a woman shaking a white cloth out of a window and Jourdain noticed an old deserted farmhouse, outside of which was an old plough. At this point they claimed that a feeling of oppression and dreariness came over them. They then saw some men that looked like palace gardeners, who told them to go straight on. Moberly later described the men as "very dignified officials, dressed in long greyish green coats with small three-cornered hats." Jourdain noticed a cottage with a woman and a girl in the doorway. The woman was holding out a jug to the girl. Jourdain described it as a "tableau vivant", a living picture, much like Madame Tussaud's waxworks. Moberly did not observe the cottage, but felt the atmosphere change. She wrote: "Everything suddenly looked unnatural, therefore unpleasant; even the trees seemed to become flat and lifeless, like wood worked in tapestry. There were no effects of light and shade, and no wind stirred the trees.

The emotional responses reflect those of the boys in Kersey and tie in with the 'derealisation' explanation. Odd stuff!

ETA: Thanks for your reply

reply to post by reptiliannogmar
I'm no stranger to psilocybe...years ago. The thing is, these guys are 15 year old boys in the 1950s on a recce for the Naval Cadets. It's before Flower Power or recreational drug use...there's no suspicion that they'd been on a psychedelic trip.

Originally posted by Kandinsky
reply to post by reptiliannogmar

 

I'm no stranger to psilocybe...years ago. The thing is, these guys are 15 year old boys in the 1950s on a recce for the Naval Cadets. It's before Flower Power or recreational drug use...there's no suspicion that they'd been on a psychedelic trip.

Could have ate some amantia muscaria

I give time slips the benefit of the doubt.

Personally, with all the literature stacking up about the non-linear nature of time and how so much of it depends on our perception of our existence, I have to wonder whether it's possible for time to be more "porous" than we perceive. More like the holes in a sponge. These holes would be of various sizes and lengths, worming their way backward and forward and up and down and sideways through existence, transporting energy/matter of all sizes -- as big as a village or entire galaxy, or as small as a person or bit of bacteria -- all over the universe.

I find it plausible that someone could get momentarily caught up in one of these things, and find themselves in a different perception or construct of reality -- possibly a different location in spacetime -- and not just a hallucination.

Originally posted by Kandinsky

Derealisation isn’t a group activity, according to the literature, rather than a personal experience. That doesn’t rule it out as an explanation

Actually it does.

reply to post by Kandinsky
I find these stories absolutely fascinating and myself believe that time slips do occur. If it were indeed a case of derealization though how would both boys have it at exactly the same time?
That would be an anomaly in itself

reply to post by Kandinsky


Hey there Kandinsky, this kind of subject matter is right up my street ... thoroughly enjoyable thread

Woody

reply to post by Kandinsky


Hey Kandinsky "wave

I love these interesting accounts,i have never heard of the one you posted.
but id like to share one of my favourite shows with you on other similar accounts.

reply to post by Kandinsky

During the Medieval period following the Norman conquest of England in 1066, many churches, abbeys and cathedrals were built, firstly in the Norman (or Romanesque) style, then in the Gothic style which was to become increasingly elaborate and decorative. In these churches the windows were generally either large or in multiples so that the light within the building was maximised. The windows were glazed, frequently with coloured glass held in place by strips of lead. Because flat glass could only be manufactured in small pieces, the method of glazing lent itself to patterning.

The pictorial representation of biblical characters and narratives was a feature of Christian churches, often taking the form of murals. By the 12th century stained glass was well adapted to serve this purpose. For 500 years the art flourished and adapted to changing architectural styles.

In the 17th century, during the time of Cromwell, the vast majority of English glass was smashed by Puritans. Churches which retain a substantial amount of early glass are rare. Very few of England's large windows are intact. Those that contain a large amount of Medieval glass are usually reconstructed from salvaged fragments. The East, West and South Transept windows of York Minster and the West and North Transept windows of Canterbury give an idea of the splendours that have been mostly lost. Section reference-[3]

wikipedia, British and Irish stained glass

Is it possible that the town’s people would have recycled any glass from a nearby church?
Or is it possible the church could have sold off the original out dated glass to the villages. Churches were always wanting bigger and better, and with stained glass being more grander maybe they sold off the old plain glass to help pay for the new.

From the article:

As it was, their superiors, Laing recalled, were “rather skeptical” when they told them of their odd experience, but they “laughed it off and agreed that we’d seen Kersey all right.” [MacKenzie pp.8-9]

Maybe they we're testing an experimental drug on their new recruits
But more seriously I believe time slips could be plausible, this certainly is a weird case, one of many also.

Originally posted by reptiliannogmar
reply to post by Kandinsky

 

The op sounds like a bad acid trip to me. I had a psychedelic experience that was shared with not only me but another friend. There was a mansion where a solid field had stood hours earlier. Time kep repeating itself. 1:12 AM multiple times for 6 hours. I would go more into the story but my memory is a little hazy from that experience. However you could read the full story and multiple similar ones on www.erowid.com and a list of multiple other drug experience sites. Not sure which one I posted it on but I am almost sure it is erowid.

Once, in a different place in time, I had a psychodelic experience. Yes, I "tripped the light fantiastic!"

I was so blown away by the experience, I read every book I could get my hands on about the experience, the culture and the chemisrty.

Turns out, to make a long story short, '___', only "turns on" chemicals and systems in your brain, that already exist. The outside source is merely a stimuli to what GOD already put there. Now, I can't remember what I learned about the chemical construct on the brain when in it comes to mushrooms.

It's true that the 3 boys could have unwitting digested something that SENT them. But, it's just as likely that our brains are capable of awareness that is, as yet undocumented in a legitimate way, without the need for an external stimuli.

Interesting post. Love this kinda stuff.

Originally posted by starchild10

Originally posted by Kandinsky

Derealisation isn’t a group activity, according to the literature, rather than a personal experience. That doesn’t rule it out as an explanation

Actually it does.

Only if you believe you know the cause of it. As the Wikipedia article states, it can have various causes, some, as per mentioned, from the use of psychedelic chemicals.

And who is not to say that on their way the boys decided to have a meal of fungii.

But I note the site owenr has the avatar of Walter White. So I believe the topic is off..

reply to post by Kandinsky
Senses.

So there were sounds, but those sounds were only heard before they actually entered the town. Once they were inside of the towns limits, all was silent.

Obviously, the sense of sight seemed to be working just fine.

It is the other senses that I am now curious about. Such as:

Was there any smell coming from the building where the oxen carcasses were?

Surely, they touched the windows and probably doors. I am wondering if there was anything noticeably strange. Maybe the windows felt cold; or felt hot; or maybe even lacked any noticeable temperature. Also the textures of those materials.

Taste..... gonna skip that one.

Just curious, and thinking 'out loud.'

reply to post by Whateva69
That's a very good idea

The church is called St Mary's and doesn't appear to have suffered in the same way many others did. A notorious Puritan, William Dowsing, is now a sort of figurehead for the destructive wave that passed through the churches of the 17th Century. He lived in the same county, Suffolk, and led moves to remove icons and religious from churches by force or fear.

Although this kind of historical nitty-gritty is to be found in academic libraries, there's a website that covers St. Mary's and the writer, Simon Knott, makes no mention of Reformation or Civil War destruction befalling the church.

In the period following the Black death, England was still a Catholic country and fearfully religious. Nobody in their right mind would take glass from a church and glaze their homes with it. The revolting habits of Catholic torture had diminished, but death would likely be the penalty for blasphemy of that scale.

btw...that account in the videos is pretty good too.

reply to post by BrokenCircles

Senses.

So there were sounds, but those sounds were only heard before they actually entered the town. Once they were inside of the towns limits, all was silent. Obviously, the sense of sight seemed to be working just fine. It is the other senses that I am now curious about.

Such as: Was there any smell coming from the building where the oxen carcasses were?

Good points. These kind of incidents are subjective and anecdotal so we can only speculate without straying 'too far from the path.' The point about senses is often a feature in these weird reports. In ufology it was coined the 'Oz Factor' and 'High Strangeness.' These often involve people describing strange silences during the incidents. In cases of people at sea seeing odd stuff like 'sea monsters', they'd often remark that the sea was still like a mirror.

The folklorists would explain it along the same lines as Mike Dash; that some psychological factor caused the witnesses/experiencers to misinterpret their surroundings because their senses were misfiring. Personally, I just don't know and entertain a few possibilities.

Interesting thread, S+F

Will get around to having a proper read later on today.

reply to post by Kandinsky


I enjoyed the OP very much. I also enjoyed the other stories posted by other members. I believe this could be possible.