Innocent people's DNA profiles won't be deleted after all, minister admits

Innocent people's DNA profiles won't be deleted after all, minister admits

www.tel egraph.co.uk

Instead the police will retain DNA profiles in anonymised form, leaving open the possibility of connecting them up with people's names, ministers have admitted.

The admission appears to break a Coalition commitment to delete all innocent profiles, apart from those accused of violent or sex crimes, from police databases.

(visit the link for the full news article)

Not like us here didn't see this coming. I'm sorry for you fellows over in the UK, this is pretty creepy. Pretty soon it will be mandatory to collect everyone's DNA at birth, these are just the first steps. Make people comfortable with the idea and think its normal, then say its a "good thing" and a "safety measure." HA!

What makes me rage at this article is this snippet.
"Currently, in England and Wales, the DNA profiles of everyone arrested for a recordable offence are retained by the police, regardless of whether they were charged or convicted. "
Key words NOT CONVICTED.

So if you get falsely arrested, get let out, oh no, they have a little bit of you locked up somewhere.


www.tel egraph.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

reply to post by doom27


I wouldn't be surprised if they are collecting DNA samples from new borns without our knowledge.

The thing is, they will never delete people from this database, until people fully protest against it. At the moment there are a number of rumblings from Joe Public, but no real demonstrations.

Unfortunately we in the U.K live in a country that is as close to a Police State as is possible without actually declaring it to be so. Just look at the behaviour of the finest from the Met during the whole phone hacking problems and their behaviour during protests. Damn even the Police Medics join in the battering of people and they are meant to be fixing people, go figure.

I don't have an issue with it and am from the UK and on the database, what are the real fears here? How could this information be used to our detriment? The way I perceive it, collect everyones DNA at birth.

reply to post by doom27


I am not surprised by this although, i thought a court stated it was un lawful for them to keep the DNA, of those who are proven innocent or not guilty. I will need to search for this and link it to this article.

The Supreme Court has declared that the police are breaking the law by keeping information about the DNA of innocent people.

Also

Early in 2008, the European Court of Human Rights ruled that keeping this information was a breach of privacy rights, but the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) has continued to say that DNA profiles will only be deleted in “exceptional circumstances”. The new ruling backs up the European judgement.

BrightKnowledge

Once again your promised something then they go back on their word. Typical. No wonder people are turning to groups such as the EDL and the BNP, if those in government go back on thier promises everytime.


Here is other links:

BBC News

Bascially they are going against the UK Supreme Court anf the EU Court Rulings.

The funny thing is i remeber a Wogan inteview (80's/90's UK chatshow host) where he spoke to David Icke, Icke went on about how us in the UK, USA and most other countries were not free, well back then everyone was laughing at him, me included but now who's laughing it sure is'nt me!

Originally posted by spacedonk
I don't have an issue with it and am from the UK and on the database, what are the real fears here? How could this information be used to our detriment? The way I perceive it, collect everyones DNA at birth.

Simply because we are putting our trust in a defunked system. The Police are set targets to solve crimes and with the number of Officers in all the forces who I wouldn't trust to look after my cats, I'm sure it is ony going to be a matter of time before this database is used to solve quite a number of unsolved crimes.

I once thought, well f you got nothing to hide, then why worry? Now I am totally against this system. It is wrong and if the European Courts can be ignored on this one, then everything we are told about Europe setting the Laws is B.S.

This a quote from one of the UK Supreme Court Judges.

I can actually see the Government being challenged again over this:

If the popular press is any guide to public opinion, the (2008) decision of the European Court of Human Rights... is one which captures the public mood in Britain much more successfully than many of its other decisions”

Lady Hale
Supreme Court justice

So The minister who decided this might find his own department back in court over this decision.

Here is A list of cases, which have been successful bu which have also been an in justice.

DNA Database: Key case studies

reply to post by Cobaltic1978


So, is the fear that prosecutions could take place that are based on falsely represented DNA? Surely in that case if everybody's DNA was on the roster, any case that had DNA evidence would be solvable very quickly and there would be no need to invent a perp. Police are set targets to solve a certain percentage of reported crime, I understand this could create pressure to resolve cases by being a little economical with the facts, or arbitrary with the types of punishment handed out i.e. cautions = a solved case, but the application of a DNA database in this way seems highly unlikely to me.

I can see a full UK database as only an aid to crime solving, not the terror type crimes, but your everyday gruesome murders and rapes.

Furthermore

reply to post by spacedonk


Not in the Whole UK it wont, maybe just England and Wales, but not in Scotland, they have to delete the DNA Samples after a certain amount of years. You do know this can be challenged in court? And it has been successful before.

In Scotland, under a different law, most people's DNA is removed from the database if they are acquitted.

DNA Database

Replying to Spacedonk

How about a cash straped government selling dna data to insurance, medical or any other institution for that matter, how about passing dna to other governments, how about fingering other potential polititions, how about any corrupt practice, agenda or will, finally how about I want to be FREE

I could talk for hours about why not but thats not the point, the point as i see it is they sell us freedom but produce a prison....just human nature i suppose

reply to post by coffeesniffer


How long before these are standard requests from Insurance companies and their ilk? How long before the doctor surgeries up and down the land require DNA to profile your future care needs. In the UK surely it could help the NHS for future budgeting? I do not know but maybe it would be beneficial. To cite potential corruption is not enough of an argument for me. When saying that the DNA info could be sold to another country. So What? DNA weapons the fear or what?

I really do not get the emotion this issue brings out. It may be that I do not have a good enough perspective on the subject. I would say freedom of a man is to be balanced by his duty to contribute to the benefit of society through various means. An evolving growing database of DNA to include the whole population would allow us to track changes in humans region by region, we could tangibly quantify evolution even over a long enough time sample. the benefit to medicine, crime solution would be massive.

In this day and age everybody pretty much carries a trackable cell phone. Most of us use bank accounts held with publicly listed companies where government agencies can gain access to your habits through your spending readily. Most of us surf the internet daily and leave an online fingerprint of our interests that can be easily hacked and viewed. Most of us go to work or have a fixed daily routine where we can be easily followed or found. what difference does it make if the state holds a sequence of code that defines how you look, grow old etc?

Isn't it nice to see how, despite the differences in governance, and culture, and political outlook, and geographical location, we are all treated with equal disrespect by the political elite?

Kind of makes you wonder why the charade of promises in the first place.

No matter what the political thespians read off the approved script, you can be sure that they are simply actors, and the real agenda is not for you or any non-elite to question.

Of course, refusal to submit to the swab will be treated as a criminal offense, no?

In their 'better world' their right to be able to locate you for persecution outweighs your right to freedom....
are we learning yet?

Originally posted by AnonymousFem
reply to post by spacedonk

 

Not in the Whole UK it wont, maybe just England and Wales, but not in Scotland, they have to delete the DNA Samples after a certain amount of years. You do know this can be challenged in court? And it has been successful before.

In Scotland, under a different law, most people's DNA is removed from the database if they are acquitted.

DNA Database

edit on 26-7-2011 by AnonymousFem because: (no reason given)

It saddens me to see that it has come down to the 'owner' of the DNA to 'challenge' the establishment in court. As if the preliminary reality is "unless you go through the ordeal of bringing suit, we can screw you."

reply to post by spacedonk


It's about freedom from me, I am a person before i am a member of society, my lookout is for myself or through choise, others. It is not for the good of society that we should curtail freedom, I can see no good coming from the ever slipping of freedom into a culture of watchers. You can choose to let them have your DNA that is your choice, you are free to do so but I choose not to and there lies the problem..

Originally posted by coffeesniffer
reply to post by spacedonk

 

It's about freedom from me, I am a person before i am a member of society, my lookout is for myself or through choise, others. It is not for the good of society that we should curtail freedom, I can see no good coming from the ever slipping of freedom into a culture of watchers. You can choose to let them have your DNA that is your choice, you are free to do so but I choose not to and there lies the problem..

Agree, it is absolutely your right to deny anyone your DNA and any other information you choose. For me that freedom of choice is paramount when it is something you feel strongly about

There's the exploitation of selling our DNA profiles to insurance companies, certainly, but there's also the stigma of being a suspect, and being innocent. If you are innocent, then you have no place being on a register with murderers and the like. Once the investigation is over, that part of yourself should be removed without question, lest it be a reminder of the crime you were accused of commiting.

To me, having my DNA on a register just raises all sorts of moral questions. If this is sold to insurance companies, and they end up with access to everyone, it could lead to profiling. Imagine if you had some traits in your DNA that indicated slight psychological problems may be present. You could theoretically be harrassed by Minority Report style police officers because you are presented as a risk on this DNA database. Your insurance premiums could go up, if you can even get insurance depending on what they find in your DNA.

Eugenics anyone?

I could go on typing, but I'll leave it at that. Those innocent profiles should be removed every single time and the owners of the DNA should not have to keep on going to court to enable this simple action.

reply to post by invetro


Interesting POV, and certainly valid points IMHO. Could this not be dealt with by regulation?

Also:

I could go on typing, but I'll leave it at that. Those innocent profiles should be removed every single time and the owners of the DNA should not have to keep on going to court to enable this simple action.

What about misdemeanour/petty crimes where a conviction is obtained or a caution is issued, technically these people are guilty and as such their DNA can be kept from your words above. Is it as cut and dried as innocent delete, the rest keep or are their degrees of delete? Should DNA swabs be taken only when found guilty?

A side issue: in the UK they take DNA every time you are arrested and processed at a police station, even if you were arrested yesterday, that bit I find confusing - surely once is enough?

Originally posted by Cobaltic1978
reply to post by doom27

 

Unfortunately we in the U.K live in a country that is as close to a Police State as is possible without actually declaring it to be so. Just look at the behaviour of the finest from the Met during the whole phone hacking problems and their behaviour during protests. Damn even the Police Medics join in the battering of people and they are meant to be fixing people, go figure.

This what I've been saying for the last few years.

This current government is just as bad as the last one, they tell you one thing and do the exact opposite.

Just more proof that all our politicians are CON men, liars and tricksters. Just like their bankster pals and their buddies in the Courts......and let's not even mention the media.

This tyranny must stop now.