Anders Behring Breivik, the Norway killer

reply to post by Aeons


What exactly are you terming as "wishy-washy words"?
What I saw you do was take a discussion of opinions, and railroad it.

reply to post by CodyOutlaw


I am well versed in MK-ULTRA, don't worry, hardly any effective mind control came out of it, it was a botched experiment.
I am in no way implying that mind control was carried out by anyone, you might have read the thread, but paying attention is also important. What I have repeatedly stated is that ABB was influenced and brainwashed by right wing extremist propaganda (I suppose you had a look at the links I provided), gates of vienna being one of the more influential.
I do understand sevenstarrs point, but I am disagreeing and asking for her to substantiate those claims with something other than, "I know about mind control, and he is clearly under the influence of mind control".
She is also contradicting herself, which isn't winning me over in any way either.
You might concur all you want, but where are the signs that ABB is under mind control? And a link to one site with verified signs of mind control, like I have said earlier, MK-ULTRA was a botched experiment, and they found much easier ways to do mind control. But not on single individuals, the Jonestown project just as one good example.

Let me quote myself:

Only right wing extremists that are powerful enough to be scary is in Israel and in congress in the U.S, and they are mainly scary for Muslims.

I did not say only Muslims are scared of extremists, please do not twist my words. If you choose to be scared of either Muslims or Right wing extremists, then you are the one under mind control.

"Frowning upon", is not the same as being scared of something.

Now, try to come up with something substantial to tell me our children was murdered as a conspiracy of mind control and not one of political extremism from a sick individual.

Also, learn to read, then comprehend, then talk/write.

reply to post by SkurkNilsen

I have a question for those who seem to believe ABB was a mind control victim.

What would the possible agenda be?

I would think it painfully obvious that the agenda is always the same - to spread fear. A fearful populace is a compliant populace. Scare people, and they will let you get away with all kinds of things. Human beings are naturally fearful, and it's very easy to manipulate them based on such.

Your "proof" is the fact that he references certain individuals, and has tenuous ties. This in no way discounts the idea that he has been programmed via MK Ultra type methods. NOT by these small-potatoes groups that you seem hell bent on pushing, but by government agencies.

If you simply cannot accept the fact that your opinion really is just an opinion, then I can't help you out much. You're in love with your own theory, which makes for a tiresome debate.

reply to post by SkurkNilsen


So, let me get this straight:

1. It is your OPINION that MK Ultra was a botched experiment.
2. It is your OPINION that he was brainwashed by right-wing propaganda.

And now, you're asking for "proof" of what is actually a highly top secret government programme (mind-control), as if one can just get on the net and give you a link to a PDF? Are you serious?

I have not seen SevenStarrz contradict herself. She has explained herself. If you read her posts, you will see that, unless of course you are one of those people whose idea of debate is to ignore the posts of the others involved.

Now, please be clear: if you are asking for reasons as to why people such as myself believe Anders to be a mind-controlled killer, then I am happy to give you my opinion.

If you are asking me to give you government papers on a top secret programme, then you're not being very bright, are you?

reply to post by SkurkNilsen


See? There you go again, quoting only the parts of my post to suit yourself. What I said was "frowned upon" and Makes people nervous. Nervousness stems from fear. Fear. See?

It's not that hard to understand, I promise.

reply to post by CodyOutlaw


You choose to be scared, I leave that up to you.

MK-ULTRA never came up with a way to do mind control. See my other reply to you.
These small potatoes, like Geert Wilders and Gates Of Vienna are maybe just that compared to the CIA, but they still push a hate filled agenda that can easily sway someone with the right frame of mind.
The CIA is of course pushing their own hate filled message about the terrible Muslims, and in some way if you let it happen to you, yes then you can, in a way say, that they have also helped to push that same agenda of xenophobia that these right wing extremists.
Brainwashed, sure.
But, drugged up, hypno sessions.....

I got a razor, Occham gave it to me, I use it.

Originally posted by CodyOutlaw
reply to post by SkurkNilsen

 

See? There you go again, quoting only the parts of my post to suit yourself. What I said was "frowned upon" and Makes people nervous. Nervousness stems from fear. Fear. See?

It's not that hard to understand, I promise.

Hehe, There I go again quoting you for the first time ever on ATS.....

And I understand perfectly, fear is the strongest and most effective form of mind control there is, if you let yourself be subdued by it.
But you are mixing the cards wildly, and seem to be quite incoherent.
I answered every question and allegation in your post, please show me the same respect if you intend to continue this discussion.

Originally posted by CodyOutlaw
reply to post by Aeons

 

What exactly are you terming as "wishy-washy words"?
What I saw you do was take a discussion of opinions, and railroad it.

That's because painting oneself as a victim is so much more useful a tactic on a board full of defenders of the black horse. Emotion works, far better than fact.

I'm still waiting for someone to define what makes something legitimate. As soon as we have a clear definition about what criteria makes something "legit" we have the basis of a discussion.

In this particular case, btw, the "fear factor" won't make people easier to control. It will do exactly the opposite. I've explained why in another thread.

The most controllable populace is not the fearful one. It the happy one. Norway is one of the most ordered, pleasant, authority-loving populaces on the freaking planet. Making sure that people know that they cannot automatically trust cops/authority doesn't make them MORE compliant.

reply to post by CodyOutlaw


It just be nice if your opinion was actually based on something. Anything, other than you just really FEEL like that's the case.

reply to post by SkurkNilsen


Ohhhh, I always like to answer Occam by stating that sometimes, believing the simplest explanation just makes you a simpleton.

Yes, it is people's choice to be afraid, and they do it ever so well, don't they? I think we can all see that humans live in a culture of fear, whether we admit it or not. You merely pointing out that people have a choice in the matter of how they feel, does not negate the point that an agenda of fear is by far the most effective weapon going.

The scant information that exists on MK Ultra, including the testimonies of surviving subjects, suggest that it consists of far more than just some drugs and light hypnosis.

Here are a few points:

If you go back a few pages and read Starviego's post, you'll see where Anders asked if he had even been successful in his "mission." How, pray tell, did he kill over 80 people, surrender to the police, and then be unclear as to what he'd been doing?

His complete lack of emotion, the vacant stare, the cocktail of drugs he was on - not to mention the numerous other inconsistencies in the case such as how the police knew his name before even arresting him, and how the news desks had his photo equally soon. Why did it take the police so long to get to the island? Why didn't they use a helicopter?

Originally posted by SevenStarrz

The way I see it is, you can't have *any* opinion, except one that is middle-of-the-road, without coming under suspicion, now:

Originally posted by SkurkNilsen
I mean, look at me and DrakeBloodAxe, we are both Norwegians, he is from the far right and I am from the far left, but still we voice our opinions on this and any matter we feel like. He seems to be very sceptic about Muslims, and I on the other hand am not. The one thing ABB did not succeed in was silencing us in any way.

Originally posted by SevenStarrz


I don't think the point is to "silence", but to monitor, because now people fear both muslims, and far right extremists.

So what is it, was it to keep us in line, or to scare us of both of the Muslims and the right wing extreme they had to "mind control" ABB?
How is that not self contradictory?

reply to post by Aeons


Fear is how the Patriot Act was passed so easily.
Telling people they are in danger from all sides and they need to have more and more freedom taken away in order to be protected is time-tested and truly effective.

reply to post by Aeons


Nobody has painted themselves as the victim.
It's only you who has even hinted as such.

As to the rest of your post, it's not entirely intelligible.
Could you re-phrase it coherently?

reply to post by SkurkNilsen


Oh! Sorry to have lost you there - I was referring to your habit in this thread of only quoting the parts of people's posts that suit your needs. Clear now? Jolly good.

As for being incoherent, I think you should maybe re-read your own posts?
Thanks

reply to post by SkurkNilsen


How is that contradictory?
Or do you have trouble understanding the idea of control through fear, like Aeons seems to.

reply to post by CodyOutlaw


And basing everything you say on hearsay makes you look like a genius.

Aeon makes a good point on fear and what it does to people right above your post, people in Afghanistan is scared, you have the choice.

I know well that MK-ULTRA was far more than that, but that doesn't negate the fact that it was a total failure.

Some points:

ABB was not sucssessfull in his mission, because the bomb went of to late, so there was around 160 people in the building and not 1600 as it would have been if everyone had been at work. Also a tunnel under where he parked the car that he didn't know about spread the explosion and minimized the effect.

His stare does not seem vacant at all to me, it looks like he is quite pleased with himself. Remember he thinks he is a hero and he has just killed a bunch of, in his eyes, traitors. The lack of emotion is typical for someone as deluded as this person.
What cocktail of drugs? He was only taking steroids.
They knew his name before the shooting was over because the security cameras outside the building. They filmed the car and traced it back to a rent a car in his name.
The photos was sent to the newspapers as it was sent to around 6000 other people included in the manifest/2083.
There was only two-seat helicopters nearby, Delta force is more than two guys (Who would have guessed). And they were a bit preoccupied by that bomb thing in the city center.

Hope that answers some of your questions, facts are nice you know, even if they do not spur the imagination in the same way as just hearsay.

Originally posted by CodyOutlaw
reply to post by SkurkNilsen

 

Oh! Sorry to have lost you there - I was referring to your habit in this thread of only quoting the parts of people's posts that suit your needs. Clear now? Jolly good.

As for being incoherent, I think you should maybe re-read your own posts?
Thanks

Oh, the cherry picking argument....
You shouldn't be throwing stones in glass houses.

Originally posted by CodyOutlaw
reply to post by SkurkNilsen

 

How is that contradictory?
Or do you have trouble understanding the idea of control through fear, like Aeons seems to.

If you don't see it I can't really help you there sonny.

Originally posted by CodyOutlaw
reply to post by Aeons

 

Fear is how the Patriot Act was passed so easily.
Telling people they are in danger from all sides and they need to have more and more freedom taken away in order to be protected is time-tested and truly effective.

So is the Fat and Happy doctrine. Since at least from Roman times, and likely closer to Babylonian. And it works far better in the long term than having people on the fight-flight spectrum all the time, where those people are unpredictable.

Anyways - Still not giving a point of debate.

However, doing an excellent job of trying to force people to grant that we need to discuss this point because to do so one has to grant the Breivik was being mind-controlled. Forcing people to grant your fictional underpinning in order to debate with you. Grant your assumption, and then we can debate the details about your assumption as if they were already real!

There has to be something to base your assumption on that he is mind controlled by an exterior force, doing so so that they can control you. Your basis for why he was controlled is that obviously someone would want to control you, and to do so control Breivik is necessary. This is the literally definition of a circular argument.

He was controlled. He controlled himself - he outlines it quite clearly for you. All you need to do is go read it, and he lays out how and why.

reply to post by SkurkNilsen


MK Ultra is not hearsay, it is documented.
You know this, you're just being deliberately obtuse.

1. It is your OPINION that MK ULTRA was a total failure. This is not fact. We are not privy to the facts, you see, because it is a highly classified government programme.

2. Everything you have posted in rebuttal as "fact" is what has come from the official story on the timeline of that day. That's your OPINION. My OPINION is that this is untrue.

3. Did you miss the part where he was also found to be taking ephedrine? Guess so.

4. You're taking what you have been told as fact. Just because someone tells you something, this does not make it fact. People lie, governments lie - and if you don't accept that, then you must really have your head in the sand.

5. Aeons did not make a good point. In fact, I have yet to see her make a good point. Her sentences are strangely tangential, vague, and without coherent structure. As I pointed out to her, the Patriot Act was passed because of fear. Or are you disputing that? Are you saying that people would be more than happy to have their rights taken away as long as they felt happy and secure? Honestly? Um...