Science/Physics is pointing toward Determinism!!!

Some say that Determinism exists and that destiny exists. Most religious people believe that God has a "will" that cannot be messed-up in anyway (which is determinism). Even with limited information on physics you can determine stuff. If someone punches you, you have no choice but to feel pain. If you don't eat, you have no choice but to feel hungry. If someone pushes you hard enough, you have no choice but to fall.


Please watch these videos and THEN state your opinion based on the information provided, whether or not you agree with it and why:

Ignore the "God's Flaw" part, and concentrate more on the "Determinism" part:



I know the first video was long but this is just 30 seconds, please watch before telling me your opinion:

reply to post by arpgme


Personally I feel like what the video is describing is like a river. It is the natural flow of things. But there are many of examples of people and other objects in nature completely breaking those molds pushing against determinism. We could probably sit back and try to rationalize how a person was able to capitalize on the opportunity because of something dormant in their DNA or something subtle in their upbringing but personally I just prefer to see a world not simply made of 1's and 0's. There may not be more going on but the show is much more interesting to watch and feel when someone isn't in your ear telling you that the special effects aren't real. We know their not real ... we don't care. That's not why we are watching.

Did that make sense?

Originally posted by underduck
reply to post by arpgme

 

Personally I feel like what the video is describing is like a river. It is the natural flow of things. But there are many of examples of people and other objects in nature completely breaking those molds pushing against determinism.

Exactly, and this is why Einstein believe that there had to be a divine order (a god)... Einstein said "When the answer is simple - it is God". When you go with the flow things are simple, when you push against, you make it difficult and painful....

Originally posted by underduck
reply to post by arpgme

 

Originally posted by underduck
reply to post by arpgme

 

personally I just prefer to see a world not simply made of 1's and 0's.

Yes, but knowing the truth is more important. If you know it and prefer to see the world how you want, that is your choice and there's nothing wrong with that. At least you know the difference between reality/fantasy. Some people don't, which is delusion....

Originally posted by underduck
reply to post by arpgme

 

There may not be more going on but the show is much more interesting to watch and feel when someone isn't in your ear telling you that the special effects aren't real.

I beg to differ. I love knowing that there is no such thing as mistakes since it was already determined and nothing I can do about it. I love that I am a part of this flow in this eternal universe. Knowing this feels GREAT to me and I'm happy there is actual evidence to back this up.

Originally posted by underduck
reply to post by arpgme

 

We know their not real ... we don't care. That's not why we are watching.

"We"? You and I know it's not real but some are living in delusion... I'm so happy that you understand this though...

If you look at god as more like a fractal zero-gravity perpetual motion machine it starts making alot more sense. Its disapointing seeing how many people refuse to even look at the possibility that conciousness is a biproduct of reality not the creator of it.

Originally posted by Wertdagf
If you look at god as more like a fractal zero-gravity perpetual motion machine it starts making alot more sense. Its disapointing seeing how many people refuse to even look at the possibility that conciousness is a biproduct of reality not the creator of it.

What on Earth does this have to do with determinism and what these videos present? Can you elaborate a bit more?

reply to post by arpgme


There will inevitibly come a time when the term god evolves. i can garantee you its not gonna be a bearded man that grants wishes.

Determinism is obvious even without your videos. Im responding to where the discussion will be a year from now.

Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by arpgme

 

There will inevitibly come a time when the term god evolves. i can garantee you its not gonna be a bearded man that grants wishes.

Determinism is obvious even without your videos. Im responding to where the discussion will be a year from now.

I agree with you. Einstein himself, he used the term God, but then he found out that a Jesuit was lying and saying that he was a believer so Einstein had to clarify that he does NOT believe in a personal God and then Einstein begin to use the word "Divine Order" more...

Everything that happens in all of the universe/multiverse is a chemical reaction, even thought, decision making, and "self awareness". No matter what you do the outcome is based on actions/reactions that have occurred previously throughout "time". It's actually a fairly easy concept to understand. The thoughtless mind usually responds to this with, well what if I was to make a decision then do something else, or what if I was to consider none of the factors then........

Well, its easy, just think about why things happen, trace it all backwards and eventually you will find that everything can be traced backwards to the location and velocity and direction of every quark (or smaller) at the beginning. Emotions are hormone stimulated reactions, decision making is an information collection along with a chemical reaction behavior. Absolutely everything that happens Is based on something else.

ETA: God can be thought of as the one chemical/physical law that drives all other scientific theories and laws.


It also shouldn't be called determinism, in my mind this implies that the reaction has a thought process, religious people can call it that but if you are not then it would be more appropriate (in my opinion) to call this "deterministic" reaction the reality/actuality reaction.

A universal, mathematical pattern has been discovered that not only exists in the sacred geometries of various religions and in certain objects known to mathematicians but also is embodied in the mathematics of the seven musical diatonic scales, in superstring theory, in human DNA and in other examples of what its discoverer calls "holistic systems". An amazing, mathematical connection has been found between science and religion whose existence can have only one explanation, namely, that a universal order or prescription governs the universe that has a transcendental origin (call it God if you want). This is the theory behind the "Theory of Everything" that is being currently sought by physicists. Only, it is NOT a theory......

For details of the pioneering research that has established these discoveries, visit:
smphillips.8m.com...

I do find this interesting though. As a species we look smaller and smaller trying to understand the little mechanisms that make things work. We always feel like we are so close to understanding the whole picture kind of like leading a horse with a carrot. But we have to step back and realize that in all likelihood we arent even close at all. Everytime we make a breakthrough and understand a new stage of "reality" it seems like it opens the door to so many other things that we are back at square one trying to figure it out.
I think determinism makes sense because naturally we strive to see order in things. If it was chaotic (and it might be) we would still find patterns and point to order. I dont really know where I stand on the determinism vs chaos debate. I suppose I would say that I dont think all the evidence is in yet. More than likely it is probably a little from column A and a little from column B.

Originally posted by Wertdagf
There will inevitibly come a time when the term god evolves. i can garantee you its not gonna be a bearded man that grants wishes.

The term God has been evolving since man was able to conceive of the idea of "god" (and perhaps even before then!).

Originally posted by arpgme

... Einstein said "When the answer is simple - it is God".

Can you give me the source to that quote ..... I can`t seem to find it online.

Hmmm, I like this subject (although the THIS is the truth attitude ticks me off).
I think determinism cuold be better "grasped" when you think of reality as a WHOLE, then, you don't need a "god" lurking anywhere, reality itself becomes it.
I like the buddhist/hinduist approach (I find that many European-born schools, although very commendable, have this same "pedestal" attitude, influenced I believed by the distorted Abrahamic cosmology of church) to this; and no, not the "new-agey modern interpretation, but the philosophical interpretation (read D. T. Suzuki alongside Hegel, priceless...)


And, in the end, I have a feeling it looses it's meaning, I feel that, as you close in on the search for the "Essence", or "Order" it starts diffusing, loosing "resolution", as a manner of speaking...


Drakus

Originally posted by UmbraSumus

Originally posted by arpgme

... Einstein said "When the answer is simple - it is God".

Can you give me the source to that quote ..... I can`t seem to find it online.

My apologies. It's actually:

"When the answer is simple, God is speaking"

reply to post by arpgme


Um, there's one little problem with that. It's called Heisenberg's uncertainty principle:

Originally posted by UmbraSumus

Originally posted by arpgme

... Einstein said "When the answer is simple - it is God".

Can you give me the source to that quote ..... I can`t seem to find it online.

I was wondering that myself - - since Einstein was an Atheist.

Although he did make mention of god in certain context.