The Undebunkable Video: Eliminate The Impossible

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

Please explain then how 94 floors of a steel structured skyscraper can be crushed in about 3 seconds, which is the only difference in time between absolute free fall in nothing (but air) and the time of destruction as seen in the videos.

Try counting as fast as possible to 94 or clapping your hands together as fast as you can, to 94, in about three seconds, and then do a refresher course on Sir Isaac Newton's three laws of motion, and perhaps you might begin to get the picture.

P.S. Thank you also for your help in forwarding the debate.

Get a pencil. Now start to bend it towards breaking. Eventually it will snap. How long does the snap take? Get it? When a structure fails the failure or break is measured in milliseconds, not seconds.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

the building fell in free fall, straight down with uniformity

Straight down? Uniformly?

Hardly....

The adjacent buildings suffered severe damage when WTC 7 collapsed

30 West Broadway (Fiterman Hall) was smashed so badly that it had to be torn down



Can see the debris from WTC 7 piled up against 30 West Broadway



The debris had to cross a 4 lane highway, Barclay Street, to strike 30 West Broadway

Here is Verizon at 140 West Street

Notice beams from WTC 7 embedded in it





So much for falling "straight down".....

reply to post by thedman
You're showing us images of the debris. Nobody said "the building fell straight down, so the debris will be confined to the area that the building fell in", that's just stupid.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/ac61a07a46d5.jpg[/atsimg] Look at the right side of the building, see how it stays lined up pretty nicely with the corner of the white building in front of it? Yeah, like he said, "straight down".

(Post #1000!)

reply to post by TupacShakur


Wow! You mean something here on the planet earth fell straight down???? Amazing - obviously an "inside job" because, as we all know, things usually fall up and to the left.

reply to post by hooper


Not funny.

Originally posted by hooper

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

Please explain then how 94 floors of a steel structured skyscraper can be crushed in about 3 seconds, which is the only difference in time between absolute free fall in nothing (but air) and the time of destruction as seen in the videos.

Try counting as fast as possible to 94 or clapping your hands together as fast as you can, to 94, in about three seconds, and then do a refresher course on Sir Isaac Newton's three laws of motion, and perhaps you might begin to get the picture.

P.S. Thank you also for your help in forwarding the debate.

Get a pencil. Now start to bend it towards breaking. Eventually it will snap. How long does the snap take? Get it? When a structure fails the failure or break is measured in milliseconds, not seconds.

That is the most unscientific thing I have read today on this thread. The mass of a pencil is far from that of a high rise skyscraper. You can't even begin to prove your statement with the math that shows the comparative analogy.

It is ridiculous trying to argue physics with people on this thread who do not have a clue. I will not waste my time educating you.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

Please explain then how 94 floors of a steel structured skyscraper can be crushed in about 3 seconds,

Why should I explain what didn't happen??

And why would yuo be so stupid as to suggest that it did??

reply to post by ontarff

The mass of a pencil is far from that of a high rise skyscraper.

The mass is not relevant. That "mass" was a system of connecting structures. To bring down the "mass" all you need to do is compromise the connections, not the whole mass as a unit. Treating the World Trade Center tower as a "mass" is delusional.

Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by ontarff

 

The mass of a pencil is far from that of a high rise skyscraper.

The mass is not relevant. That "mass" was a system of connecting structures. To bring down the "mass" all you need to do is compromise the connections, not the whole mass as a unit. Treating the World Trade Center tower as a "mass" is delusional.

I beg your pardon, to ignore the mass is quite delusional. What equation does not include mass? That in essence is one of the main arguments. ALL of the supporting columns would have to fail almost, if not simultaneously for the building to collapse as it did. Thank you for supporting the OP and understanding physics with a pencil.

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

Please explain then how 94 floors of a steel structured skyscraper can be crushed in about 3 seconds,

Why should I explain what didn't happen??

And why would yuo be so stupid as to suggest that it did??

Destruction Time

Each of the Twin Towers totally collapsed in intervals of approximately 14 to 16 seconds. A temporal record of the entire North Tower collapse is provided by the Real-Time CNN Broadcast feed
www.911research.com...
aired during the attack. (This table 911research.wtc7.net... shows frames from that video at half-second intervals.) It allows reasonably accurate measurement of gross collapse features such as the growth and descent rate of the rubble and dust cloud. However, this and other video evidence does not allow the determination of a precise time of total collapse because each tower's destruction remains hidden behind an expanding dust cloud which, because of its size, reaches the ground over a span of several seconds.

Despite the availability of video evidence establishing lower bounds of total collapse times of over 13 seconds for each of the towers, assertions that they collapsed in under ten seconds are widespread. Collapse times of eight to ten seconds are common not only in literature of the skeptics, but also in publications promoting the official explanation. A Scientific American article about a 2001 public meeting of engineers on the MIT campus in Cambridge, MA gives a figure of nine seconds.

e x c e r p t
title: When the Twin Towers Fell
authors: Steven Ashley

[Kausel] also performed some computer simulations that indicate the building material fell almost unrestricted at nearly the speed of free-falling objects. "The towers' resistive systems played no role. Otherwise the elapsed time of the fall would have been extended," he noted. As it was, the debris took about nine seconds to reach the ground from the top.
site: scientificamerican.com page: 911research.wtc7.net/disinfo/experts/articles/sciam01/sci_am1.htm

The 9/11 Commission also endorses the 10-second figure.

e x c e r p t
title: National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States
authors: Phillip Zelikow, et.al.

At 9:58:59, the South Tower collapsed in ten seconds, killing all civilians and emergency personnel inside, as well a number of individuals-both first responders and civilians-in the concourse, in the Marriott, and on neighboring streets. The building collapsed into itself, causing a ferocious windstorm and creating a massive debris cloud.
site: www.9-11commission.gov... page: www.911research.wtc7.net...

911review.com...

So let's call it, the total destruction time at about 16 seconds then, for the North Tower (the time is less for the South Tower), yes in spite of the thin spire which hung for a few seconds before plummeting since we are talking about the entire horizontal, floor by floor, mass of the building, from top to bottom bearing in mind that this does represent an estimate and an approximation, amortizing the continued descent of the building structure through the rising dusk cloud, unto ground level..


Now, let us consider the following two cases, what I call simply "Something vs. Nothing"

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/4bb5b32abbe4.gif[/atsimg]
A) On the left we have for the north tower, the impact area, centered around the 95th floor, of a 110 story skyscarper aka WTC1, completely removed and the core ignored.

B) On the right, the topmost section suspended over...nothing at all as depicted.

For B, facting in air resistence, we would have the top of the building (assuming no final crush time at all at impact with the ground) in just over 10 seconds, or somewhere between 10 and 11 seconds depending on the size and shape of objects, where free fall for any freely dropped object, whether a steel safe or a grand piano in a complete vaccum, is 9.2 seconds.

For A, ignoring the core, we have the actual destruction time estimate of appeoximately 16 seconds, or a difference of 5 or 6 seconds from free fall time in air (case B).

So I stand corrected inso far as the time difference I cited before was about three seconds.

Since B is a fall through in effect nothing at all whatsoever (except air), and A through the remaining structure (the path of maximal resistence), it can only be within the difference of time within which every weld, bolt, and joint can be involved in the action/reaction of breaking, crushing or snapping - a difference in this case of about 5-6 seconds (not three).

Therefore, according to the official story, we are expected to believe that, absent the use of explosives sequentially removing the building structure just beneath the descending debris wave of mostly ejected building material in the cascading fountain of debris, as seen here



- that the entire remaining length of structure was crushed, smashed, broken, snapped or "pancaked", within a timespan of about 5 or 6 seconds.

Here is another way of looking at it, to illustrate the point I am making

Case 1. Free-fall time of a billiard ball dropped from the roof of WTC1, in a vacuum:

Let's consider the minimum time it would take the blue billiard ball to hit the pavement, more than 1/4 mile below (see below). Start the timer when the ball is dropped from the roof of WTC1. We'll assume this is in a vacuum, with no air resistance. (Note, large chunks of the building will have a very low surface area-to-mass ratio, so air resistance can be neglected.) From the rooftop of WTC1, drop one (dark-blue) billiard ball over the edge. As it falls, it accelerates. If it were in a vacuum, it would hit the pavement, 1368 feet below, in 9.22 seconds, shown by the blue curve in the figure, below. It will take longer if air resistance is considered, but for simplicity, we'll neglect air resistance. This means that the calculated collapse times are more generous to the official story than they need to be.

[I realise the following charts are slightly chopped on the right side, but ther's enough to see what's being presented]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/22727c429143.jpg[/atsimg]
Figure 1. Minimum Time for a Billiard Ball dropped from the roof of WTC1 to hit the pavement below, assuming no air resistance.

Case 2: ‘Progressive Collapse’ in ten-floor intervals:

To account for the damaged zone, let’s simulate the floor beams collapsing every 10th floor, as if something has destroyed 9 out of every 10 floors for the entire height of the building. This assumes there is no resistance within each 10-floor interval. i.e. We use the conservative approach that there is no resistance between floor impacts. In reality there is, which would slow the collapse time further. Also, there was only damage in one 10-floor interval, not the entire height of the building. Thus, if anything, this means the calculated collapse times are more generous to the official story than they need to be. Refer to the figure below. The clock starts when the blue ball is dropped from the roof (110th floor). Just as the blue ball passes the 100th floor, the red ball drops from the 100th floor. When the red ball passes the 90th floor, the orange ball drops from the 90th floor, ... etc. Notice that the red ball (at floor 100) cannot begin moving until the blue ball reaches that level, which is 2.8 seconds after the blue ball begins to drop.

This approximates the "pancaking" theory, assuming that each floor within the "pancaking" (collapsing) interval provides no resistance at all. With this theory, no floor below the "pancake" can begin to move until the progressive collapse has reached that level. For example, there is no reason for the 20th floor to suddenly collapse before it is damaged.

With this model, a minimum of 30.6 seconds is required for the roof to hit the ground. Of course it would take longer if accounting for air resistance. It would take longer if accounting for the structure's resistance that allows pulverization. The columns at each level would be expected to absorb a great deal of the energy of the falling floors. Thus, if anything, this means the calculated collapse times are more generous to the official story than they need to be.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b28bbd4196a0.jpg[/atsimg]

Case 3: ‘Progressive Collapse’ in one-floor intervals:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/6133103a1d4c.jpg[/atsimg]
Figure 6. Minimum time for the collapse, if every floor collapsed like dominoes, or if the core is removed from consideration with all the floors suspended in mid air, with each successive floor falling at free fall the moment it is contacted by the floor or floors above it.

Case 4: ‘Progressive Collapse’ at near free-fall speed:

Now, consider the chart below.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d056b8924c7b.jpg[/atsimg]Figure 7. Minimum Time for a Billiard Ball dropped from the roof of WTC1 to hit the pavement below, assuming no air resistance.

Let's say that we want to bring down the entire building in the time it takes for free-fall of the top floor of WTC1. (Use 9.22 seconds as the time it would take the blue ball to drop from the roof to the street below, in a vacuum.) So, If the entire building is to be on the ground in 9.22 seconds, the floors below the "pancaking" must start moving before the "progressive collapse” reaches that floor, below. To illustrate this, use the concept of the billiard balls. If the red ball (dropped from the 100th floor) is to reach the ground at the same time as the blue ball (dropped from the 110th floor), the red ball must be dropped 0.429 seconds after the blue ball is dropped. But, the blue ball will take 2.8 seconds after it is dropped, just to reach the 100th floor in free fall. So, the red ball needs to begin moving 2.4 seconds before the blue ball arrives to "trigger" the red ball's motion. I.e., each of these floors will need a 2.4 second head start. But this creates yet another problem. How can the upper floor be destroyed by slamming into a lower floor if the lower floor has already moved out of the way?

And finally, the actual physical reality of the "collapse" must be taken into account also, which shows the building material ejecting, right from the onset, in a cascading fountain-like ejection, all the way down, resulting, not in cumulative weight loading, but just the opposite, resulting in increasingly LESS building weight above the remaining length of undamaged structure, leaving, in effect, little more than mere atmosphere above the remaining length of structure, which being over-engineered, was designed to uphold the rest of the building above each level (and more) for the lifetime of the structure.

illustrative photo, along with description outlining ejective nature of destruction
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/fffa7f07a3cf.jpg[/atsimg]

Isaac Newtons Three Laws of Motion:

I. Every object in a state of uniform motion tends to remain in that state of motion unless acted upon by a force of resistence.

II. The relationship between an object's mass m, its acceleration a, and the applied force F is F = ma. Acceleration and force are vectors (as indicated by their symbols being displayed in slant bold font); in this law the direction of the force vector is the same as the direction of the acceleration vector.

III. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

Oral Testimony

Explosive Testimony: Revelations about the Twin Towers in the 9/11 Oral Histories
by David Ray Griffin
www.911truth.org...

Firefighters Transcript, an excerpt

9:52 a.m.

Battalion Seven Chief: "Battalion Seven to Battalion Seven Alpha." "Freddie, come on over. Freddie, come on over by us."
Battalion Seven Chief:

"Battalion Seven ... Ladder 15, we've got two isolated pockets of fire. We should be able to knock it down with two lines. Radio that, 78th floor numerous 10-45 Code Ones."

Ladder 15: "What stair are you in, Orio?"
Battalion Seven Aide: "Seven Alpha to lobby command post."
Ladder Fifteen: "Fifteen to Battalion Seven."
Battalion Seven Chief: "... Ladder 15."
Ladder 15: "Chief, what stair you in?"
Battalion Seven Chief: "South stairway Adam, South Tower."
Ladder 15: "Floor 78?"
Battalion Seven Chief: "Ten-four, numerous civilians, we gonna need two engines up here."
Ladder 15: "Alright ten-four, we're on our way."

9:52 a.m.

Battalion Seven Aide: "Seven Alpha for Battalion Seven."
Battalion Seven Chief: "South tower, Steve, south tower, tell them...Tower one. Battalion
Seven to Ladder 15. "Fifteen."
Battalion Seven Chief: "I'm going to need two of your firefighters Adam stairway to knock down two fires. We have a house line stretched we could use some water on it, knock it down, kay."
Ladder 15: "Alright ten-four, we're coming up the stairs. We're on 77 now in the B stair, I'll be right to you."
Ladder 15 Roof: "Fifteen Roof to 15. We're on 71. We're coming right up."

9:57 a.m.

"Division 3 ... lobby command, to the Fieldcom command post."
Battalion Seven Chief: "Operations Tower One to floor above Battalion Nine."
Battalion Nine Chief: "Battalion Nine to command post."
Battalion Seven Operations Tower One:

"Battalion Seven Operations Tower One to Battalion Nine, need you on floor above 79. We have access stairs going up to 79, kay."

Battalion Nine: "Alright, I'm on my way up Orio."
Ladder 15 OV: "Fifteen OV to Fifteen."
Ladder 15: "Go ahead Fifteen OV, Battalion Seven Operations Tower One."
Ladder 15 OV: "Stuck in the elevator, in the elevator shaft, you're going to have to get a difference elevator. We're chopping through the wall to get out."
Battalion Seven Chief: "Radio lobby command with that Tower One."

9:58 a.m.

Battalion Seven Chief: "Battalion Seven to Ladder 15."

(END OF TAPE)
www.nytimes.com...

reply to post by NewAgeMan


Please note that in the above post, that the first two charts are in reverse order, thanks, too late to edit it.

Also, the firefighter transcript offered at the end is in relation to the South Tower and was provided to show that firefighters had reached the impact area and were preparing to put out or in thier words put down the fires and begin evac of civilians, when the buildings came down on them, killing everyone in the building.

Firemen Explosion Testimony

Seismic signals were recorded on September 11 2001 during the period when the North and
South Towers (respectively WTC1 and WTC2) were penetrated and collapsed, as well as
during the collapse of Building 7 of the WTC (also known as WTC7), a building which had
not been hit by a plane.

Conclusion

At the moment of the impact by the planes on the Twin Towers and their collapse, as well as
that of WTC7, seismic waves were generated. To the degree that (1) seismic waves are only
created by brief impulses, and (2) that low frequencies are associated with an energy
(magnitude) that is comparable to a seismic event, these waves undeniably have an
explosive origin. Even if the planes' impact and the fall of the debris from the Towers
onto the ground could have generated seismic waves, their magnitude was insufficient
to be recorded 34 km away, and they should have been similar.

However, the composition and magnitude of the seismic signals show significant
differences, above all in their propagation speed, even though their paths were identical
under identical conditions. This last difference being physically unexplainable in the official
version, we must put into question the calculation of the speeds effectuated from the origin
shown on the video images. We can only conclude that in reality, the (explosive) source
was manually detonated, thus accounting for the variable shift for each origin in
relation to the videos.

The composition of the waves is revealing both in terms of the location of the source and the
magnitude of the energy transmitted to the ground. The subterranean origin of the waves
emitted when WTC1 collapsed is attested by the presence of the P and S volume waves
along with the Rayleigh surface waves, which are present in all five explosions.The

placement of the source of the four other explosions is subaerial, attested by the unique
presence of Rayleigh waves. The aerial explosions visible on the videos of the upper
floors of the Twin Towers do not produce seismic waves 34 km from the source.

There is a factor of ten between the power of the explosions at the time of the impacts on the twin Towers (as well as at the time of the collapse of WTC7) and the strength of those more powerful ones at the time of their collapse, the subterranean explosion under WTC1 being the one that transmitted the most energy to the ground.

Note as well that the degree to which the surface waves disperse (their speed depends upon their frequency), the duration of the recorded signal is not representative of the duration of the signal at the source.

Finally, the controlled demolition of the three towers, suggested by the visual and audio
testimony, as well as by observations of their collapse, is thus demonstrated by the analysis
of the seismic waves emitted at the moments of the plane impacts and at the moments of the
collapse

full article at www.scribd.com...

reply to post by TupacShakur


Lets goes to the video tape....

Quote

the building fell in free fall, straight down with uniformity

Hum "building fell straight down".....

Like most "truthers suffer from dyslexia

reply to post by thedman


Having a building drop strait down doesn't mean it has to not touch the surrounding buildings. WTC 7 dropped..the video is the proof. You don't want to accept it.


I think some of you guys forget how close buildings are to each other in the Northeast. Demolition doesn't happen to often in the city(Especially with 50 story towers). Buildings that close with a staged terrorist attack, you would definitely expect surrounding buildings to have major collateral damage. Hello?

I wonder if all debunkers assume that the concept of a demolition has to be one certain way. There are many forms of demolishing a building . There is no correct way, especially when you want everyone (including debunkers) to believe the building is collapsing because of a :: shock wave from the plane's impact/a super special "once in a life time" FIRE that can melt and bend anything "only on 911" / and the weight of 150,000± tons (of the upper floors) CRUSHING 400,000± tons of the remaining building (that has no fire or damages).

???


Yep ,that's it. Case closed

reply to post by hooper

Wow! You mean something here on the planet earth fell straight down???? Amazing - obviously an "inside job" because, as we all know, things usually fall up and to the left.

Dude there are four pictures of buildings that fell sideways and two videos of failed demolitions in the OP.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/6ded355bee99.jpg[/atsimg] [atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/35c7b8ee9656.jpg[/atsimg] [atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/5ef7e45a3f48.jpg[/atsimg] [atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/69e3478d2f71.jpg[/atsimg]
All of that compared to this: [atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/ac61a07a46d5.jpg[/atsimg]

reply to post by TupacShakur


Sorry, but all those building fell "down". Towards the earth. That's how it works.

reply to post by hooper


Why are you so willingly ,blindly accepting inaccurate reports from your government(911 report/FEMA/NIST). I don't understand.

All your responses (like all debunkers) have been extremely cynical. You over analyze "duh" statements. In return your main objective is to derail post from people who are extremely competent(truthers) . Who are trying to explain obvious holes in the this bogus 911 story line.


We all know buildings or any object will fall down with no support at all. We all know gravity is a force. And?? This has nothing to do with the debate. ITS HOW IT FELL DOWN.

All three building dropped strait down. Not to the sides. Strait down. It doesn't matter if it dropped 3 seconds,6, 10 or 13 seconds.. Its dropped strait down.. Did falling debris cause extreme damage to other building ,YES. So what. That part isn't important, but you think it is,why?..... What is important , and this is a hint debunkers, is that on the same day three massive buildings collapsed strait down.(And all 3 with disintegrated concrete) Identical. OK ,let me rephrase the statement, its almost identical for you all debunkers , just in case you guys decide over analyze on pointless terms, I'll reiterate its not identical very similar collapses. Why "very similar"?,,, because WTC 7 didn't get hit by a plane.
HELLO!!!!!...


Doesn't that bother you?

Doesn't that in the least bit raise questions in all of you.?

2 planes = 3 towers to drop so easily????? I mean if thats the case ,the japanese should have WON the pacific(WWII) with their kamikaze tactics.




Doesn't this convenient coincidence bother you . It bothers me ,, a lot..


What I would like to know is how many debunkers work in the design field or construction field. Cause anyone architect/civil&structural engineer or GC ,**with no ties to the government**, can not accept the current Main street report. So I'm assuming ,debunkers are not educated properly in construction and don't know any better ,but to accept what they are told.


Its really that simple folks.


All what debunkers do and want to do is to derail the debate and make the story as complicated as possible. ...There bet is : if its too complicated then people would just give up and move on. Which is what our government desperately wants us to do. Move on.


That will never happen with me.

reply to post by hooper

Sorry, but all those building fell "down". Towards the earth. That's how it works.

....Am I talking to a brick wall here? Yes, those buildings "fell down towards the earth", but they didn't fall perfectly vertically. They fell sideways, they collapsed at an angle, they didn't symmetrically collapse like WTC7 did.

Do you understand the difference?

reply to post by dilly1

I think some of you guys forget how close buildings are to each other in the Northeast. Demolition doesn't happen to often in the city(Especially with 50 story towers). Buildings that close with a staged terrorist attack, you would definitely expect surrounding buildings to have major collateral damage. Hello?

I am quite aware of the distances involved considering I live only few miles to the west in NJ and travel to the
area frequently

So how many times you been there?

If so are you aware of Barclay St which is a 4 lane road ?

If the building dropped straight down like the conspiracy loons keep claiming why all the damage to the
adjacent buildings ?

I thought that the demolition had all been planned and the building rigged years ago ......