A Question Pertaining to the 32nd Degree Initiation Play

"Constans is left alone in the Cathedral. He slowly rises, views the armor, and speaks.
Constans: The Prince Commander said, "Behold, in this sword and helmet, shield and cuirass, symbols of all the powers for the service to which I might aspire." He also said, "Guard well your armor, for, in so doing, you guard all your powers for future good."
Picks up cuirass and meditates.
Constans: The Breastplate of righteousness, Carl�s Cuirass, taken from his own breast and placed here in token of his faith in my fidelity, that I might be girt in strength. I will not break that faith.
Deposits cuirass and picks up helmet.
Constans: The Helmet of Salvation. Phillipe�s assurance of my love and truth. I will make that assurance doubly sure.
Deposits helmet and picks up shield.
Constans: The Shield of Faith. Frederick�s testimony of my love for all my Brethren. May that testimony never change.
Deposits shield and picks up sword.
Constans: The Sword of the Spirit. Conrad�s belief in my justice and mercy in the defense of every righteous cause."

Carl, Phillpe, Frederick and Conrad. What do they have to do with the passage in Ephesians chapter 6? I never saw any mentioning of those names in the bible.

www.stelling.nl...

[edit on 14-8-2004 by DetectivePerez]

Originally posted by DetectivePerez
"Constans is left alone in the Cathedral. He slowly rises, views the armor, and speaks.
Constans: The Prince Commander said, "Behold, in this sword and helmet, shield and cuirass, symbols of all the powers for the service to which I might aspire." He also said, "Guard well your armor, for, in so doing, you guard all your powers for future good."
Picks up cuirass and meditates.
Constans: The Breastplate of righteousness, Carl�s Cuirass, taken from his own breast and placed here in token of his faith in my fidelity, that I might be girt in strength. I will not break that faith.
Deposits cuirass and picks up helmet.
Constans: The Helmet of Salvation. Phillipe�s assurance of my love and truth. I will make that assurance doubly sure.
Deposits helmet and picks up shield.
Constans: The Shield of Faith. Frederick�s testimony of my love for all my Brethren. May that testimony never change.
Deposits shield and picks up sword.
Constans: The Sword of the Spirit. Conrad�s belief in my justice and mercy in the defense of every righteous cause."

Carl, Phillpe, Frederick and Conrad. What do they have to do with the passage in Ephesians chapter 6? I never saw any mentioning of those names in the bible.

www.stelling.nl...

[edit on 14-8-2004 by DetectivePerez]

DP,

Not sure about that Chapter in Ephesians. Do you mind quoting it? This snippet you've shared with us by the way is from the recently revised 32nd Degree of the Northern Masonic Jurisdiction. The NMJ has revised that degree quite a bit (probably because part of it was posted to the internet)




In the Southern Jurisdiction and elsewhere about the globe that portion that you've quoted isn't done at all. The NMJ is famous for revising their degrees (Some in my opinion don't even resemble degrees any more...but they didn't ask my opinion before doing it...) Here's a link of the Southern Jurisdiction states and those of the Northern Masonic Jurisdiction, just for those who might be interested and not realize that the Ancient & Accepted Scottish Rite (like Masonry in general) is similar across the globe, but not anywhere NEAR identical.

www.srmason-sj.org...

Ok, this is from the Bible - Today's English Version

Ephesians 6:14-17 (TEV)

"So stand ready, with truth as a belt tight around your waist, with righteousness as your breastplate, and as your shoes the the readiness to announce the Good News of peace. At all times carry faith as a shield; for with it you will be able to put out all the burning arrows shot by the evil one. And accept salvation as a helmet, and the word of God as the sword which gives you spirit."

Originally posted by DetectivePerez
Ok, this is from the Bible - Today's English Version

Ephesians 6:14-17 (TEV)

"So stand ready, with truth as a belt tight around your waist, with righteousness as your breastplate, and as your shoes the the readiness to announce the Good News of peace. At all times carry faith as a shield; for with it you will be able to put out all the burning arrows shot by the evil one. And accept salvation as a helmet, and the word of God as the sword which gives you spirit."

I see. (I wasn't sure which verse(s) and am not near my Bible at the moment. Looks like the author(s) of that particular ritual used the Bible for inspiration (This is very common in Masonic and many other fraternal rituals).

Some Masonic Degrees are also based on stories in the Deuterocanonical books of the Bible (i.e. the Apocrypha of the Hebrew Scriptures..or "Old Testament")

Regards,

What is the significance of using the names Carl, Phillipe, Frederick and Conrad? What did they do that is so special?

Originally posted by DetectivePerez
A Question Pertaining to the 32nd Degree Initiation Play

ATS Search function, there for you when all is lost... A beacon on a stormy night... A veritable treasure trove of ATS booty... Did I just say booty?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by senrak
In the Southern Jurisdiction and elsewhere about the globe that portion that you've quoted isn't done at all.

Nor in Canada. I've never seen anything even remotely resembling this.

Originally posted by AlexKennedy

Originally posted by senrak
In the Southern Jurisdiction and elsewhere about the globe that portion that you've quoted isn't done at all.

Nor in Canada. I've never seen anything even remotely resembling this.

Nope. The rituals of Canada were inspired by Pike's early revisions and have been revised from time to time, as have the Pike Rituals of the Southern Jurisdiction.

This is the real Mc Coy as far as I'm aware - the nonsense about it being rewritten is quite silly - this is the final degree of the Scotish Rite, supposedly it presents the final endorsement of a lifestime of moral teachings - wouldn't make any sense to rewrite it unless the moral teaching of Freemasonry have changed, but then it wouldn't be "Ancient and Accepted" would it?
I haven't actually looked into the names of the characters of this play in great detail, but the overall idea is that Constan's already knew the "Royal Secret" and by placing his faith in God and putting the lives and considerations of his bretheren before his own that only by breaking his vowes to them for his vigil does he acheive matyrdom.
The first part of the ceremony is a recap of the 14 significant degrees but none of these can help Constance make the correct decision for the final (real) challenge however the "very essense" of Freemasonry provides him with the answer. belief in God and charity to his fellows.

Necros' lies and inept knowledge of Masonic rituals have thoroughly been exposed here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Fiat Lvx.

Originally posted by MrNECROS
This is the real Mc Coy as far as I'm aware - the nonsense about it being rewritten is quite silly - this is the final degree of the Scotish Rite, supposedly it presents the final endorsement of a lifestime of moral teachings - wouldn't make any sense to rewrite it unless the moral teaching of Freemasonry have changed, but then it wouldn't be "Ancient and Accepted" would it?
I haven't actually looked into the names of the characters of this play in great detail, but the overall idea is that Constan's already knew the "Royal Secret" and by placing his faith in God and putting the lives and considerations of his bretheren before his own that only by breaking his vowes to them for his vigil does he acheive matyrdom.
The first part of the ceremony is a recap of the 14 significant degrees but none of these can help Constance make the correct decision for the final (real) challenge however the "very essense" of Freemasonry provides him with the answer. belief in God and charity to his fellows.

Right. "as far as you're aware" You said it yourself. What you're UNAWARE of is that (as I've said repeatedly the various jurisdictions (there is NO INTERNATIONAL Masonic authority...ANYWHERE) have revised the rituals of the Scottish Rite from time to time. The ritual that you posted part of was revised this year (2004) again, as I said, partially because it was put on the internet. The philosophy of the Scottish Rite hasn't changed, but the words, lectures, etc. have been revised. I KNOW this to be so...so it isn't "nonsense" except to you who are obviously too thick-headed to realize that a VERY active member (who by the way collects Masonic rituals from various jurisdictions) knows more than you do about it.

As to the "ancient" part...the Scottish Rite came to be in 1801. That's NOT very ancient now is it? A bit of "puffery" on the part of it's founders, perhaps...but what's wrong with that? It's the teachings of the ORder that are important not it's age. The Knights of Pythias didn't come around until the 1860's but they have a very impressive ritual and moral teaching as well.

I'm not saying that what you've posted isn't or wasn't relavent...it's just NOT THE CURRENT VERSION....nor was Chas. McClenechan's "Book of the Ancient & Accepted Rite" from the 1860's that you ranted about....

Originally posted by MrNECROS
This is the real Mc Coy as far as I'm aware - the nonsense about it being rewritten is quite silly - this is the final degree of the Scotish Rite, supposedly it presents the final endorsement of a lifestime of moral teachings - wouldn't make any sense to rewrite it unless the moral teaching of Freemasonry have changed, but then it wouldn't be "Ancient and Accepted" would it?

I'm not sure why I'm wasting my time here (since you called me a "pathalogical liar" in another thread, but for your edification....the revisions of the 32nd Degree Ritual of the Northern Masonic Jurisdiction (this FROM the actual ritual...not anything on-line...or an expos'e) are as follows:

1867
1875
1911
1934
1960
1978
1981
&
2004

By the way, that stuff you said about Freemasonry providing him (Constans) with belief in God and charity to his fellows...that sure does sound like Freemasons are up to no good. They probably drug people, steal their toilets and vandalize their girlfriends...

BWAHAHAHAHA

You don't really seem to grasp the point do you?
The Rite as published was in 1981 - it bears full resemblance to the rite as desribed in 1884 by McClenechan.
How could it be changed significantly without altering its meaning?
It could be modernised but the morality would have to remain ther same, you could change the names of the characters and costumes but you would have to deliver the same message, so what would be the point?
Yes you are a pathological liar - ALL Freemasons are, I fully stand by this accusation as it is correct as is the one in regards to cowardice.

Originally posted by MrNECROS
Yes you are a pathological liar - ALL Freemasons are, I fully stand by this accusation as it is correct as is the one in regards to cowardice.

Well, I'm neither a liar nor a coward.
You, on the other hand, maybe need to take a long, hard look in the mirror.

We've exposed your deceptions so many times in the past few months, you are now becoming tiresome. There are threads regarding this subject where you have been beaten down and shown to be a lliar, yet still you have the arrogance to re-raise the subject. As far as you are concerned, black is white. If somebody shows you the error, you slink out of the thread only to pick up the argument elsewhere, as if the proof you were given never existed.

You really aren't a very nice person are you?
In fact, I'd go so far to say that you are a total and utter loser. Being a coward and a liar is your domain, MrNecros.

Originally posted by MrNECROS
Yes you are a pathological liar - ALL Freemasons are, I fully stand by this accusation as it is correct as is the one in regards to cowardice.

Thank you necros for finally saying it directly to me. It's obvious that you have some serious problems if you'd say that to someone you do not know (nor will EVER know).

Now I can happily leave your idi*tic posts alone. In fact, if all of us would, maybe you'd take the hint (although I doubt you're that smart) and go away. But as far as I'm concerned you can go play all by yourself now.



[edit on 18-8-2004 by senrak]

Actually there aren't any threads where "I've been beaten down and shown to be a liar", unless you really believe that the 32nd degree doesn't involve a suit of armour etc...

Mind you there are numerous threads where this empty claim is made time and time again....not that that makes you a liar mind you, you could just be illiterate, stupid or ...

Strange I got 2 warnings for saying this about Freemasonry - yet I get it leveled at me all the time.

Normally this behaviour is most pronounced when I teach the Masons on this board lessons from the higher degrees, maybe you guys should just read "The Book" and be done with it?

Originally posted by MrNECROS
Mind you there are numerous threads where this empty claim is made time and time again....not that that makes you a liar mind you, you could just be illiterate, stupid or ...

Normally this behaviour is most pronounced when I teach the Masons on this board lessons from the higher degrees, maybe you guys should just read "The Book" and be done with it?

It is the tradition of our order not to reply to slander and attack.

Since time immemorial, it has been the tradition of Freemasonry and Freemasons not to reply to slander and attack. It is felt that nothing can be gained from striving with the hateful. Although his philosophy is foreign to the order, we must recall the words of Nietzsche :

"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster,
and if you gaze into the Abyss, the Abyss gazes also into you."

If a man is to improve himself, he must take practical steps to do so, and for this reason I will not reply to this attack. Please do not take my silence for assent... it is merely an indication that the argument presented is self-evidently false and baseless.

Those with serious questions about Masonry or my experiences therein are invited to contact me by U2U or through a message in the "Secret Societies" forum.

So its just your traditon to slander and attack others and not reply to anything they say in return then?
You only have to read your own posts on this page to see the stupidity of your statement.
Please don't quote Nietzsche, he is my second favorite philosopher, only the lord Bhudda rates higher on my lists.

Originally posted by MrNECROS
Actually there aren't any threads where "I've been beaten down and shown to be a liar", unless you really believe that the 32nd degree doesn't involve a suit of armour etc...

Mind you there are numerous threads where this empty claim is made time and time again....not that that makes you a liar mind you, you could just be illiterate, stupid or ...

Strange I got 2 warnings for saying this about Freemasonry - yet I get it leveled at me all the time.

Normally this behaviour is most pronounced when I teach the Masons on this board lessons from the higher degrees, maybe you guys should just read "The Book" and be done with it?

Sorry. No suit of armor in the 32nd Degree of my jurisdiction. ...and I have two copies of "The Book" They're beautiful old volumes and quite informative. The exoteric portions of the degrees that are printed in them are not accurate any more (I wonder how many times I need to say that) but for historical purposes, they're quite interesting. In fact the 32nd Degree in the Southern Jurisdiction, USA is one of the most beautiful (although my personal favorite is the 30th Degree..perhaps because I was the exemplar for the class and got to actually go through the degree...not just sit in the auditorium and watch like the other 75 or so candidates)

Originally posted by senrak
In fact the 32nd Degree in the Southern Jurisdiction, USA is one of the most beautiful (although my personal favorite is the 30th Degree..perhaps because I was the exemplar for the class and got to actually go through the degree...not just sit in the auditorium and watch like the other 75 or so candidates)

I don't know if your degree down there is the same as ours, but I find the 17th degree amazing, just amazing. There's so much to work with in that degree. Of course, they're all amazing if you take the time to open your eyes (as I have no doubt you have, Senrak). I will be doing the largest part in the 29th this year... speaking of which, I'd better start studying for it !