"Does Islam stand against science?"

From the Teapot Atheist:

Allah created humans with magic, and that's that. Alternative theories are not on the table. The article notes this kind of thinking with concern just as it optimistically reports that stem-cell research is acceptable in the Muslim world because Muslim tradition holds that the soul doesn't enter the embryo until forty days after conception. This is what it means for something to be opposed to science. Representing a body of propositions that conflicts with the accepted propositions of science does not mean "opposed to science." Science disagrees with science every day. The accepted propositions of science are continually redacting and replacing the previous set of propositions. The thing about Islam that makes it, as with any ideology that is dedicated to methodological supernaturalism, is that it doesn't play by science's rules: science is a process, not a body of facts. The whole point of that process is that it discards and replaces the old facts with more precise, more accurate ones, constantly discarding the beliefs of the previous generation.

This really captures the heart of what I think is wrong with creationism. It's not JUST that it's factually incorrect, since being wrong does not make you a non-scientist or a bad scientist. It's that the methodology behind it is sloppy and doctrinal, not empirical. Thoughts?

Islam stands against everything.

Originally posted by Adyta
Islam stands against everything.

Except belief in Islam...

second line...

all religion stands against science. in the end they know it will prove them to be close minded sheeple

You're gonna get a lot of Islam slamming posts.

If you replaced Islam with Christianity, equally accurate, you'd get many of the same posters defending their faith for the same crime they're attacking.

It's been said enough that almost all religion goes straight up against science, too the point that I barely think it's worth bringing up right now.

Singling out a certain faith, that is having problems with prejudice against it, is only promoting further prejudgement and hatred.

Here's a very interesting and very thick book on how science in encoded in the words of the Quran written by a Phd in Biomedical engineering.

www.scribd.com...

reply to post by coyotepoet

I do believe you’ve missed the point. Please read the quoted extract in the OP again.

In Mecca, there is a 'rock from heaven' in the Black House.......every Islamist worship it.....even though at this day and age, we all know that is a meteor from outer space.....you tell me if Islam against science ?

reply to post by Astyanax


No, I got the point. The truth is that in the Quran, as in any sacred text there are layers of understanding. Where someone in the 17th century would read the Quran one way, someone in the 21st century reads it another way, thereby replacing the ideas of the past.

30. Haven’t the unbelievers see that the heavens and earth were one weaved tapestry and Allah (God) Almighty split them apart and Allah (God) made every living thing from water. Will they not believe?


The above verse states that Allah Almighty made every living thing from water. Living creatures are made of matter through which energy propagates to maintain the various functions of the living creatures. According to the Noble Qur’an the propagation of all forms of energy needs to be exactly like the propagation of energy in water. Water propagates as droplets of matter such that each droplet contains a certain amount of energy. Thus it can be concluded that energy propagates in discrete amounts of energy (i.e. packets of energy). Such that within these droplets of energy there are vibratory states (i.e. vibrational energy). The amount of energy is dependent on the number of energy packets (droplets) which propagate in a given interval of time. As energy packets propagate they cause wave like deformations in the medium exactly like water waves in the seas as shown in figure 10-1.

This book is full of things like that. Same thing with the Bible only people choose to read and understand it at only one level when the PROCESS of understanding leads them to grok deeper and deeper levels of what might once have seemed silly and superstitious.

reply to post by My.mind.is.mine


Well, I see people kneel and bow toward it....the one below the Black House or in a worshipping place in Mecca.
My preference is from 'Religulous'.
Please do verify for me.

Originally posted by the_0bserver85
reply to post by My.mind.is.mine

 

Well, I see people kneel and bow toward it....the one below the Black House or in a worshipping place in Mecca.
My preference is from 'Religulous'.
Please do verify for me.

People kiss the stone, that's it. The direction of our prayers is the Ka'ba itself. The black stone is not worshipped in the least..

reply to post by My.mind.is.mine


Good to know....thanks, brother.
Back on the topic.......I think religion should just do its things....be a representative of god for weak-will people to depend on. And science should also try to explain the explainable and BS the unknown.

As said -- Science is not a body of facts, but a process. This is why any Dogma is opposed to science. Islam is not essentially opposed to science -- in fact, while the "Dark Ages" passed for the "Christian" world, Arabic societies -- primarily Islamic even then -- remembered, stored, and advanced sciences lost to the "West".

Only Dogmatic, unrelenting Islam -- Christianity -- Judaism -- Pastafarianism -- etc.ism -- are opposed to science. ONes that are not willing to change aspects of their worldview according to what can be viewed of the world.

This means that all so-called "Orthodox" religions are opposed to science. As are all "Fundamentalist" and "Extremist" religions. But Islam as a whole? Not necessarily. Even religions are not necessarily opposed to the advancement of science; only those opposed to change, especially of opinion, are opposed to science.

In other words: No need for Other-bashing.

Originally posted by theblackirish7
all religion stands against science. in the end they know it will prove them to be close minded sheeple

Science is man's way of trying to explain what God does, or has done. The Bible is full of facts that men have "discovered" in the recent past, yet have been recorded in God's Word for thousands of years (click the following link for examples: www.remnantofgod.org... )

It would make more sense to choose the side that never shows any doubt. We constantly hear and read about discoveries that rewrite the way scientists think about a particular branch of science. This means their original assumptions were erroneous, yet they had thought they were correct.

Man-made science is full of assumptions, hypotheses, theories, etc. Never once will you read in the Bible where God said anything like, "This is probably how this will work," or, "That might be that way". There is never any doubt, because He created it, so He knows all about it all. If the Bible is just a book written by men, then how was it able to explain all of the scientific facts that it does, long before scientists even knew that's the way they were?

It is more close-minded to believe in a system that is based on theories that usually end up being off in one way or another, than it is to believe that there is a perfect Creator who made everything.

reply to post by coyotepoet

The truth is that in the Quran, as in any sacred text there are layers of understanding.

Were they there from the beginning? Are they inherent in the text?

Where someone in the 17th century would read the Quran one way, someone in the 21st century reads it another way, thereby replacing the ideas of the past.

Every age interprets the productions of earlier ones in the light of its own knowledge and beliefs. Are you saying that the meaning of the Qu'ran changes from age to age? That it contains no eternal truths? That its meaning is vulnerable to the popular fads and prejudices of the hour?

Anything that claims to be true for all eternity flies in the face of science. That is the OP’s point. Either the Qu'ran must be claimed as eternal truth (in which case it does stand against science) or else it is provisional, falsifiable and open to constant revision. You can’t have your cake and eat it. You must choose.

By the way, the quoted book extract is arrant, unscientific nonsense. Everything is not made of water. Water does not 'propagate'. The way energy propagates through water varies with the type of energy: light propagates in waves normal to the direction of motion, sound in longitudinal waves, etc. The rest of the quote is so meaningless it cannot even be subjected to critical analysis; it’s just drivel. Do yourself a favour and throw the book away, or give it to an enemy in the hope of confusing and misleading him. It is fit for no other purpose.

reply to post by Astyanax

Every age interprets the productions of earlier ones in the light of its own knowledge and beliefs. Are you saying that the meaning of the Qu'ran changes from age to age? That it contains no eternal truths? That its meaning is vulnerable to the popular fads and prejudices of the hour? Anything that claims to be true for all eternity flies in the face of science. That is the OP’s point. Either the Qu'ran must be claimed as eternal truth (in which case it does stand against science) or else it is provisional, falsifiable and open to constant revision. You can’t have your cake and eat it. You must choose. By the way, the quoted book extract is arrant, unscientific nonsense. Everything is not made of water. Water does not 'propagate'. The way energy propagates through water varies with the type of energy: light propagates in waves normal to the direction of motion, sound in longitudinal waves, etc. The rest of the quote is so meaningless it cannot even be subjected to critical analysis; it’s just drivel. Do yourself a favour and throw the book away, or give it to an enemy in the hope of confusing and misleading him. It is fit for no other purpose.

As for the book segment, it was a piece taken out of context as an example. It does not just cover water and energy waves and it is not unscientific. If you are basing your assessment of the book as drivel based on the one quote that I pulled out rather than looking at the entire book and the many scientifically based diagrams that he uses throughout to illustrate his points then you are not worth arguing with. I should also point out that I am not Muslim and have no attachment to this guy or the Quran being right or wrong. I have however spent many years in cross-religious studies examining a whole variety of sacred texts at the esoteric level.

Table of contents to help with context

Table of contents.............................................................................................. 2 Introduction...................................................................................................... 5

Energy mechanics of water.............................................................................. 7
1. Propagation of energy in water..................................................................................... 7
2. Structural arrangement of water................................................................................... 9
3. Water waves................................................................................................................ 12
4. The basic unit of the structure of energy.................................................................... 14
5. Discrete structure of energy........................................................................................ 15
6. Structural organization of energy weaved ropes in space........................................... 15
7. Vibratory state of energy weaved ropes...................................................................... 17
8. Modes of Vibrations of energy weaved ropes............................................................. 18
9. The function of energy weaved ropes......................................................................... 19
10. Propagation of energy................................................................................... . . . . . . . . . . . 20
11. The interaction of energy weaved ropes with matter................................................ 26
12 The amount of energy experienced by an object....................................................... 28
13. Optimal ratio of the magnitude of energy and the area experiencing this energy.... 28
14. The fabric of energy.......................................................................................... . . . . . . . 30
15 Interaction of water waves......................................................................................... 33

.......................................................................................................................................40
1. Structure of matter...................................................................................................... 41
2. Structure of the atom.................................................................................................. 42
3. Objects in the seven heavens of the atom................................................................... 43
4. Structure of the objects in the seven heavens of the atom.......................................... 43
5. Motion of the objects in the seven heavens of the atom............................................. 44
6. Shape of the nucleus of the atom................................................................................ 45
7. Status of the nucleus of the atom................................................................................ 45
8. Number of objects in the heavens of the atom........................................................... 47
9. Energy within the seven heavens of the atom............................................................. 48
10. Stability of the atom.................................................................................................. 48
11. Absorption of energy by matter................................................................................ 50
12. The energy that drives the objects in the heavens of the atom................................. 51
13. Radial movement of the objects in the heavens of the atom.................................... 53
14. Are the objects in the heavens of the atom matter or energy?.................................. 54
15. Stable configuration of the atom.............................................................................. 54
16. The orbiting speed of the objects in the heavens of the atom................................... 55
17. The importance of the weight of the atom................................................................ 56
1. Stability of the atom:.............................................................................................. 57
2. Atomic bonding:..................................................................................................... 57
3. The amount and rate of energy flow from and to the atom.................................... 59
18. The flow of matter.................................................................................................... 59
19. How to derive the laws that govern energy and matter in the creation of Allah (God) Almighty from the Noble Qur’an................................................................................... 64
20. The concept of a constant and variable energy fields............................................... 67
21. Why atoms take in and give off energy (thermal, electrical, acoustic, etc.)?........... 68
22. Balance of the lattice structure of materials............................................................. 71

The ability of the law of everything as derived from the Noble Qur’an to
explain and predict the outcome of observed phenomena............................. 73

Gravitation ((هيبذاجل......................................................................................................... 73
1. Understanding how gravitational energy interacts with matter (i.e. the phenomenon of gravity)......................................................................................... . . . . . 73
2.The relationship between mass and shape............................................................... 79
3.Perfect match between the stability of the earth and that of the atom..................... 81
4.The concept of the center of gravity........................................................................ 84 ٍ

Structural ((تآشنمل.......................................................................................... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 87
1. Various types of atomic bonds................................................................................ 87
2. The concept of stress............................................................................................... 87
3. Density of materials................................................................................................ 89
4. Stiffness of materials.............................................................................................. 90
5. Fatigue of materials................................................................................................ 92
6. Strength of matter................................................................................................... 96
7. Stress concentration phenomena............................................................................. 96
8. Prediction of material behavior under load............................................................ 98
9. Phenomenon of friction........................................................................................ 101

Fluidic ((عئومل............................................................................................................... 103
1. Fluid flow in conduits.......................................................................................... 103
2. Resistance of conduits to fluid flow..................................................................... 104
3. Diffusion of matter................................................................................................ 106
4. Evaporation and condensation of water................................................................ 112

Electricity and magnetism ( (ةيسيطانغمل  ةيئابركل.......................................................... 115
1. The nature of the electron..................................................................................... 115
2. The concept of an electric current......................................................................... 116
3. The phenomenon of superconductivity................................................................. 118
4. Production of a magnetic field.............................................................................. 119
5. Classification of materials according to their magnetic properties...................... 121
6. The concept of light.............................................................................................. 122
7. Production of light by the sun............................................................................... 124
8. Optical properties of materials.............................................................................. 125

Thermal Energy ( (ةرحل ةقال..................................................................................... 127
1. The concept of thermal energy............................................................................. 127
2. Modes of transport of thermal energy................................................................. . 128
3. Speed of heat transport in matter.......................................................................... 133
4. The concept of heat capacity of materials............................................................ 134
5. Thermal induced displacements in materials........................................................ 135
5.1 The relationship between the weight of the atom and the amount of thermally induced mechanical displacements........................................................................... 137
6. Behavior of materials upon heating and cooling.................................................. 139

Biomedical Engineering ( (ةويحل ةيل ةدنل................................................................ 141
1. Biocompatibility ((ويحل بال............................................................................ 141

Applications from the law of everything as derived from the Noble Qur’an ......................................................................................................................150
Structural applications................................................................................. . 150
Application (1): The design of load handling structures from the Noble Qur’an:....... 150
Application (2) How to reduce friction? as derived from the Noble Qur’an............... 152

Fluidic applications...................................................................................... 153
Application (1): Comparing the difference between the behavior of cold and hot water ......................................................................................................................................153
Electrical and magnetic applications............................................................ 154
Application (1): Achieving superconductivity at temperatures above room temperature
(i.e. above 25 degrees centigrade)................................................................................ 154

Mathematical applications........................................................................... 156
Application (1): The main function describing the form of energy and matter.... . . . . . . . 156

Biological applications............................................................................ . . . . . 162
Application (1): A new testing medium for biological experimentation...................... 162
....................................................................................................................................167


And what I am saying is that there are many levels of understanding from many sacred texts that can be read at multiple levels and that they were intended that way. Are you familiar with the terms exoteric and esoteric? Something can be both simultaneously depended on the level at which it is read. If you are only capable of reading things at an exoteric level it is pointless to argue with you. If you are able to appreciate the immense subtleties with which the texts have been written and not just the gross fundamental ways that they have been interpreted by the masses over the years then there is hope.

reply to post by coyotepoet

The book segment... was a piece taken out of context as an example.

It was sufficient, however, to judge the scientific credentials of the author.

It does not just cover water and energy waves and it is not unscientific.

I beg to differ. It is completely unscientific. I believe I know what I am talking about.

If you are basing your assessment of the book as drivel based on the one quote that I pulled out rather than looking at the entire book and the many scientifically based diagrams that he uses throughout to illustrate his points then you are not worth arguing with.

As you please. Somebody who understands farming can identify a city slicker the minute he opens his mouth. An experienced musician doesn’t have to hear more than a few bars of a passage to judge the ability of the performer.

If you can’t see that that one paragraph is drivel, how can you possibly judge the rest of the book?

I should also point out that I am not Muslim and have no attachment to this guy or the Quran being right or wrong.

Why should that matter one way or the other? We are talking about religious texts and the scientific method.

I have however spent many years in cross-religious studies examining a whole variety of sacred texts at the esoteric level.

That does not qualify you to judge the scientific authenticity of a text. I’m sorry, but there it is.

Table of contents to help with context

3. Objects in the seven heavens of the atom................................................................... 43
4. Structure of the objects in the seven heavens of the atom.......................................... 43
5. Motion of the objects in the seven heavens of the atom............................................. 44
8. Number of objects in the heavens of the atom........................................................... 47
9. Energy within the seven heavens of the atom............................................................. 48
16. The orbiting speed of the objects in the heavens of the atom................................... 55

The ‘seven heavens of the atom’, eh?

Are you familiar with the terms exoteric and esoteric?

Quite.

If you are able to appreciate the immense subtleties with which the texts have been written and not just the gross fundamental ways that they have been interpreted by the masses over the years then there is hope.

Fiddlesticks. Don’t come over all superior and patronizing with me, young fellow. I have spent many years studying and learning about religion, magic and mysticism. I am South Asian, by the way, and live in a multicultural society where Buddhism is the majority religion, with large Hindu, Muslim and Christian minorities. In my youth I took an interest in these matters, visited shrines, spoke to priests and holy men, tried a few things out for myself. As for esoteric readings, from The Gospel of Thomas to the Baghvad-gita to the Bardo Thodol, I’ve been there, done that. It is from my own personal experience that I assure you that it is all – various Buddhist and Tantric awareness and meditation disciplines apart – a load of ripe, stinking cheese.