Religion vs religion

I'll start by saying I found god this year. Fortunately for me after years of being taught a religion I didn't choose I found one I can get behind. I am now a member of The Church Of The FSM or a Pastfarian as many of you may know it. I have felt the best and enjoyed life more than ever before. Plus my heaven rocks.
My debate is on this topic here:
How can one say that the Flying Spagetti Monster ( who created the entire universe while inebriated ) is any less valid of a "god" or deity than say Jesus or that Mormon guy Joseph something?????

This question has been asked to death. Ad infinitum.

The answer is simple. Personal experience. And personal conviction.

Most religions have writings and somewhere in those writings there is usually a reference to punishment for believing in false Gods or in other words, Gods other than the one your reading about.

This tends to make people speak out against other forms of worship while it is probably likely that all the religions are referencing the same deity if one does actually exist.

In my opinion

reply to post by kro32


Well said. May you be touched by his noodley appendage.

My God's better than your god.
2nd line.

reply to post by drfresh


I'm sorry to disturb your thread with heretic thoughts, but I have recently been told, that the flying spaghetti monster only is a kind of messenger, and that the top-dog is the great noodle master.

Will I now end in a place with very low-grade oil, no garlic and no sweet basil, if I believe in it. I haven't converted either way yet, so I'm still open for suggestions.

Do you have any plans for starting an inquisition? I have a neighbour, I don't like very much.

reply to post by drfresh


As far as I know the Flying Spagetti Monster is made up by atheists in a vain attempt to make a point without any validity.

Jesus OTOH was obviously an enlightened master who taught metaphysical truths and in whom a loving and powerful character can be percieved.

There is only one universal spirit of truth who is God. I don't think that any enlightened Christian believes in God as a separate entity.. ?

We understand God as Spirit, and as being both innerent and transcendant.

The old Flying Spagetti Monster is an absurd, ridiculous and foolish argument which begins with an ignorant presupposition as to the views, beliefs and undestanding of "believers" or in some cases "gnostics" for whom the qualia of felt experience is their touchstone as to the essential validity of the Jesus story.

God Bless,

NAM

reply to post by NewAgeMan


You wrote:

["As far as I know the Flying Spagetti Monster is made up by atheists in a vain attempt to make a point without any validity."]

Being a kind of secular pastafarian myself, I feel, I have an answer to that. It's not a "point without any validity" describing pastafarianism, it's "validity without a point".

You know, theism can be VERY complex, self-contradictory and rhetoric, when it has no real answers. So also with my version of this religion, though I in this context follow standard religious practise.

Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

You wrote:

["As far as I know the Flying Spagetti Monster is made up by atheists in a vain attempt to make a point without any validity."]

Being a kind of secular pastafarian myself, I feel, I have an answer to that. It's not a "point without any validity" describing pastafarianism, it's "validity without a point".

You know, theism can be VERY complex, self-contradictory and rhetoric, when it has no real answers. So also with my version of this religion, though I in this context follow standard religious practise.

Very well put. I find it funny people say the FSM is not valid because he is made up. I find it odd they believe in equally ridiculous things but because someone made Jesus up a long time ago he has to be real. Can't we all just agree we all believe in crazy made up characters and stop allowing that to separate us and instead be happy we have the ability to choose what we believe.

reply to post by drfresh

Read Jesus words, both in the cannonical Gospels and the Gnostic Gospels (Nag Hammadi Library), and then tell me that there wasn't a character there, a teacher, an enlightened master.

To compare this, and all the documentation, and the VOICE revealed in this history (however mythologized) with the FSM, is absurd, and an insult to our intelligence, c'mon, don't be ridiculous.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by drfresh

 

Read Jesus words, both in the cannonical Gospels and the Gnostic Gospels (Nag Hammadi Library), and then tell me that there wasn't a character there, a teacher, an enlightened master.

To compare this, and all the documentation, and the VOICE revealed in this history (however mythologized) with the FSM, is absurd, and an insult to our intelligence, c'mon, don't be ridiculous.

edit on 14-7-2011 by NewAgeMan because: typo

This is what I mean. He was just a dude how can people follow "Jesus" so blindly. People here talk about aliens, ghosts and the devil. Jesus is no more real than them. If a guy named jesus did exist he was just a dude named jesus. His mother wasn't a virgin and he was off his rocker if he thought God was talking to him. Nowadays he'd be locked in an institution somewhere. So I'll take the debunker approach. If someone can show me proof Jesus was real and the son of god I'll be cool. What about Muhammad was he real? Or buddah? Or how about niburu because it's well documented by the Azteks or mayans or something. Also how could "god" allow these priests to do what the do (which I won't mention).???

reply to post by drfresh

"God is spirit and truth."
~ Jesus, to the woman at the well

You simply don't understand, yet. You haven't grasped the frame of reference.

Try investigating and seeking with an open mind free, from any contemptuous bias prior to, investigation.

"Seek, and you will find."
~ Jesus, from the Sermon on the Mount

A hint - It's all about something called "The Wisdom of the Ages" and the "Great Work". Look into it.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by drfresh

 

Read Jesus words, both in the cannonical Gospels and the Gnostic Gospels (Nag Hammadi Library), and then tell me that there wasn't a character there, a teacher, an enlightened master.

To compare this, and all the documentation, and the VOICE revealed in this history (however mythologized) with the FSM, is absurd, and an insult to our intelligence, c'mon, don't be ridiculous.

edit on 14-7-2011 by NewAgeMan because: typo

It's my experience, that missionaries (from all ideologies) generally are motivated from mindset, i.e. personal psychological or emotional factors, while non-believers more often rely on the intellect and use rational reasoning to find answers and a personal direction in life.

That said, it's not as if an intellect approach is 'better', just as 'objective procedure' isn't 'better', when making personal choices.

The problems start, when subjective attitudes are applied in social contexts; sometimes to the point of interfering with other peoples lives. Such invasive behaviour is by the missionary considered 'justified', partly because of his/her own burning faith in 'the cause', and partly because of some self-reinforcing system 'validating the cause'.

Such a system can be more or less rational, but usually becomes increasingly irrational proportional to the faith of the missionary. It contains doctrines taken out of thin air, hijacked and twisted material from more respectable truth/reality-seeking systems and even plain propaganda.

Eventually missionaries can go so far, that they start using machievellian tactics, and that 'the aim justifies the means'.

Naturally some non-believers feel a need to say: "Stop, not further", and develop 'protective' methods. One such is pastafarianism, which has adopted a faith-methodology identical to that of religious believers. If Jesus, Jahveh, Krishna, Brahma, Allah etc. can be pushed, so can the FSM. The method is the same and as hypothetically legitimate as any other religious circle-argumented faith: "It's true, because it's true".

That you don't like it, is regrettable. But then there has always been bad blood between some religionist factions, so this is nothing new.

If you find it a mockery, then you'll better get used to it; e.g. by thinking about it as a religion worshipping abstract 'gods' of humour and liberal principles. This is not more irrational or insane than believing in 'original sin', negation of gravity by walking on water or whatever some people believe in.

If you really want to stress 'documentation', you could do this by applying rational, objective principles. A set of written, religious propaganda isn't more 'documentation' than any other fairytale or mythology put on paper.

reply to post by bogomil


I just hope that you are aware how juvenile the FSM is..

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by bogomil

 

I just hope that you are aware how juvenile the FSM is..

And yet also how sophisticated it is.

Few theists complain, when a special type of christian missionaries hijack and deform science/logic to construct such travesties as 'quantum religion' or 'intelligent design', which practically ALWAYS are based on ignorance, intellectual dishonesty or even open lies (a few exceptions deserve respect though), while the FSM doctrines follow the average theist patterns. Making them so to speak technically housebroken.

I have a small spot in my home, where a small collection of 'inspirational' items is placed. Maybe I can get hold of an ornamental spaghetti strainer and add it.