Moussaoui Trial Images - Please help to establish the facts.

reply to post by TupacShakur


What's the percentage of Americans that believe in Ghosts? Bigfoot? Alien visitation? Voodoo? Witchcraft? If numbers are all that matter - then this topic appears to be in good company...

Hey, if someone wants to investigate on their own dime (not the taxpayers) - let them have at it. I don't really care. However, if you want to use taxpayer monies - then you'd better have a hell of a better set of supporting circumstances than what we've seen in this thread about the Pentagon - otherwise, spend the money on something more worthwhile.

reply to post by userid1

What's the percentage of Americans that believe in Ghosts? Bigfoot? Alien visitation? Voodoo? Witchcraft? If numbers are all that matter - then this topic appears to be in good company...

Hey, if someone wants to investigate on their own dime (not the taxpayers) - let them have at it. I don't really care. However, if you want to use taxpayer monenies - then you'd better have a hell of a better set of supporting circumstances than what we've seen in this thread about the Pentagon - otherwise, spend the money on something more worthwhile.

Right, let's pull the taxpayer money card. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't we spending BILLIONS of taxpayer dollars fighting wars that resulted from the 9/11 attacks? Thousands of Americans are dying overseas, and the investigation that was used to back those wars was flawed in many ways, and you don't think a couple million dollars is worth potentially saving thousands of American soldiers lives and saving billions of dollars in taxpayer money?

reply to post by userid1

Note the nearly double number of "unsure" vice those who "reject" the findings. That is NOT a win for the truthers. 12% is still just 12%. Source: Angus Reid Public Opinion Methodology: Online interviews with 1,007 American adults, conducted on Mar. 9 and Mar. 10, 2010. Margin of error is 3.1 per cent.

But the actual poll methodology doesn't say that, it says:

From March 9 to March 10, 2010, Angus Reid Public Opinion conducted an online survey among 1,007 American adults who are Springboard America panelists. The margin of error—which measures sampling variability—is +/- 3.1%. The results have been statistically weighted according to the most current education, age, gender and region Census data to ensure a sample representative of the entire adult population of the United States.

That's like taking a survey among regular church-going Americans about evolution and then controlling the sample for age, gender, education and region.

The mere fact that you are a panelist at a site called "Springboard America" already in and of it itself indicates a nationalistic streak and therefore a propensity to believe whatever the gov'ment tells you is true.

Even worse is this:

Earn Survey Dollars for completing surveys!

www.springboardamerica.com...

Yeah, real solid source you have there.

I bet if you did a poll among AE911 members and controlled the results for age, gender, education and region you would get a different outcome.

No, actually, I don't think "with us or against us" has a thing to do with this discussion. I'd also be willing to bet that that vast majority of Americans feel exactly the same way I do...the only important opinions on *this* subject are those who suffered through the attack.

If you feel differently - then we agree to disagree and that's pretty much the end of it - yes?

This Angus Reid group doesn't seem too legit. It looks like people have to sign up to take the surveys, but best of all they get entered into a SWEEPSTAKES!

Their canadian site:

www.angusreidforum.com

• Make your opinion count in boardrooms, government and the media.
• Earn Survey Dollars redeemable for cheques or charity.
• Get entered into our $1500 Contest Draw for joining. Click here for the Contest Rules.

And their american site:

www.springboardamerica.com

* Make your opinion count in boardrooms, government and the media.
* Earn Survey Dollars redeemable for checks or charity.
* Get entered into our $1000 Sweepstakes for joining. Click here for Sweepstakes Rules.

Doesn't seem like random sampling to me...

Edited to add: Looks like Darkwing all ready found this....

reply to post by NIcon


I found this forum discussion both amusing and revealing:

forum.surveypolice.com...

It appears there are people who fill these things in for a living. I for one am only glad that ltlredhen got his money in the end.

reply to post by Darkwing01


The Polling organization is EXACTLY the same one cited by Tupac in one of his links, (NY Times/CBS and brought to us via Prison Planet.com. That article then links to the polling org)

What exactly do you know about "springboard America"? Sounds to me like it's simply the US outlet for the polling organization - just like "springboard Canada", and simply Angus-Reid elsewhere in the globe.

reply to post by userid1

What exactly do you know about "springboard America"? Sounds to me like it's simply the US outlet for the polling organization - just like "springboard Canada", and simply Angus-Reid elsewhere in the globe. If you've got an accusation - make it, but it would be best to back it up.

The accusation is right there in the methodology section which someone here didn't bother to read before posting the link.

There is a difference between reporting on a poll and reporting on a poll conducted among your members who you paid to fill out the survey in the first place.

The fact that Angus-Reid is reporting on this poll by Springboard-America is proof enough of deception, since they are the same company. I wonder if you can locate a third party source.

reply to post by TupacShakur


I was under the impression the primary - and overriding reason we went into Iraq was WMDs. If you *really* want to investigate something - investigate that foul-up. As for Afghanistan, since I do actually subscribe to the overall OS, I don't have as much of a problem with that military effort. Or, at least I didn't...now, I believe that the Afghanies don't really want our help, just our money and would be just as happy to let things go back to where they were.

OK by me - let's leave...

reply to post by Darkwing01

Well then you don't have a problem discounting Tupac's source either since it was the same source - right?

reply to post by userid1

Well then you don't have a problem discounting Tupac's source either since it was the same source - right?

If it was done by the same people with the same sort of methodology then yes.

All I have to go on at the moment though is a dead link.

But in principle, sure.

UPDATE:
It doesn't look like it is the same people, for one thing (if it is the same one) this was a telephone poll: www.nytimes.com...

UPDATE 2:
Angus Reid was only founded in 2006 (the same year as the poll) in Canada according to their wiki page:
en.wikipedia.org...

UPDATE 3:
Looks like it was founded to take advantage of the good name of the Angus Reid Group which was earlier sold to Ipsos:
www.ipsos-na.com...
i.e. not the same company as Angus-Reid Public Opinion.

reply to post by userid1

was under the impression the primary - and overriding reason we went into Iraq was WMDs

19 terrorists crashed planes into buildings, killing thousands of Americans, and we wanted payback. However 15 of the hi-jackers were from Saudi Arabia, two were from the United Arab Emirates, one was from Egypt, and one was from Lebanon. So we invade Afghanistan because we think that the terrorists were being sheltered there, and Iraq, because we think they have the very weapons that we have thousands of.

Is America the police of the world? Are we the only country allowed to have nuclear weapons? Why don't we call our nuclear weapons "weapons of mass destruction"? That is a BS double-standard, propaganda at it's finest.

If you *really* want to investigate something - investigate that foul-up. As for Afghanistan, since I do actually subscribe to the overall OS, I don't have as much of a problem with that military effort. Or, at least I didn't...now, I believe that the Afghanies don't really want our help, just our money and would be just as happy to let things go back to where they were.

No, I would rather investigate that actual attacks that led to us invading those countries, using accurate, unbiased science that backs up it's claims with facts, evidence, and experimentation, not the political reasons behind invading Iraq and Afghanistan.

reply to post by Darkwing01


Here's a link to what I think prisonplanet.com was linking to:

www.angus-reid.com...

The dates match, at least.

And it looks like Angus Reid didn't conduct it, but CBS/ NY Times did with a telephone survey.

Source: The New York Times / CBS News
Methodology: Telephone interviews with 983 American adults, conducted from Oct. 5 to Oct. 8, 2006. Margin of error is 4 per cent.

reply to post by NIcon

Here's a link to what I think prisonplanet.com was linking to: www.angus-reid.com... The dates match, at least. And it looks like Angus Reid didn't conduct it, but CBS/ NY Times did with a telephone survey.

Yes that's seems to be be the same one referred to in the newspaper article.

reply to post by Darkwing01

It looks like Angus Reid archived poll results from a whole bunch of different sources. Probably to increase search results when they were just starting out.

I guess this tells us (collectively) not to assume anything from a broken link.

reply to post by NIcon

It looks like Angus Reid archived poll results from a whole bunch of different sources. Probably to increase search results when they were just starting out. I guess this tells us (collectively) not to assume anything from a broken link.

Well in general, any statistic without a methodology is not worth much. In fact, often the methodology tells you more than the statistic.

I think in the case userid's poll it tells us that people will tell you anything you want to hear in an opinion poll for a couple of dollars. Big shocker right there.

Originally posted by userid1
reply to post by Darkwing01

 

Sorry, you've no argument from my perspective. No one else *but* the US was attacked that day. We're the only ones that had to suffer through it and pick up the pieces. We're the ones who had to determine what happened. WE'RE the ones entitled to make the judgement(s).


What are you for real? It wasnt just americans that suffered as a result of 9/11 what about the innocent soldiers sent out to die supporting illegal wars and the hundreds of thousands of innocent iraqis murdered

reply to post by TupacShakur

Hey, if someone wants to investigate on their own dime (not the taxpayers) - let them have at it. I don't really care. However, if you want to use taxpayer monenies - then you'd better have a hell of a better set of supporting circumstances than what we've seen in this thread about the Pentagon - otherwise, spend the money on something more worthwhile.

We spend about $255 million per day, or a little less than $1.8 billion a week in Iraq alone according to MSNBC. The starting budget of the 9/11 investigation was only $3 million. We funded the 9/11 investigation with what we spend in Iraq every 30 seconds. The total budget was $15 million, which is what we spend in around two and a half minutes in Iraq, don't forget the other many wars we're fighting. Why don't we take 20 minutes, stop fighting, and spend that axpayer money on a new, more thorough investigation that will answer the dozens of questions and fix the problems with the current one?