What would happen IF VENUS atmosphere expanded over Earths?

reply to post by Ophiuchus 13


Theoretically, such an occurrence would be the same as Earth developing a Venus-like atmosphere... which would be fatal to most life on the planet, and is a distinct possibility. Unless, of course, the atmosphere of Venus didn't completely envelope Earth, which would see such effects to a lesser extant.

Then there's also the possibility of chemical reactions between Venus' atmosphere and Earth's, but I couldn't elaborate on that, since I don't know the make-up of Venus' atmosphere in any great detail, and I hate chemistry. With a passion.

Originally posted by defcon5
In other words, it would have to expand many times the size of the sun, and would also encompass the sun itself.

That would be 1 chain reaction. During the 5 points when it comes close to Earth are the close points (correct) now SOL I would think would just add more to it as it, if it did in fact reach SOL.

Many are discussing the distance and space between and I understand this. But as stars dance many things chemically can occure in a chain reaction starting from point of chemical change to opoint of celelstial neghbor interaction. If a human was on Venus now and could withstand the acid showers and pools of dense gases (and others) in a suit would they be able to swim/float in Venus Atmosphere.

I do thank you ALL for helping me out with this -thought- I really appreciat it.

be well and take care
Gotta love the beauty tho VENUS vs MARS

reply to post by Ophiuchus 13


I have posed each of your questions/postulates to my 6th-grade-approaching son.

He asked me if I was crazy. He then explained how his class at Cambridge Elementary began studying the Solar System and astronomy in 3rd or 4th grade, and that everyone in hi9s class knows that Venus" atmosphere is in a different orbit than Earth's, and that the two cannot ever meet. If they did, it wouyld be so spread-out, no one would notice.

He refused to answer the other questions, muttered something under his breath, and huffed away to his room to read, shaking his head sadly.

I think I've ruined my reputation, just by positing such inanities to a 6th-grader.

jw

That isn't what is going to happen.

www.abovetopsecret.com... From my post in a very good thread by Benedict9, which reveals his inside info he was given.

Comet Elenin is NOT Wormwood Binary Sun Dwarf Star--However Prepare for intensifying Earth Changes.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/0254b28146e7.jpg[/atsimg]

After earth changes intensify, not sure what year, this earth sized fireball, or second son/sun, that came from the sun itself, is going to show up. And when the FOL/Family of Light arrive, earth will upgrade, the solar system will upgrade, for all things have a teleos purpose and I believe this is the final cycle. The transformation will be in the twinkling of an eye.

reply to post by CLPrime


The atmosphere of Venus is over 96% carbon dioxide (96.5?) with most of the rest nitrogen. The atmosphere appears to be relatively clear until the cloud deck starts about 50 km above the surface. The clouds are composed of sulphuric acid and various other corrosive compounds, and the atmosphere contains little water.

It takes 8 months for Venus to rotate but the upper cloud layers orbit Venus's equatorial region in 4 days, slower towards the poles. Sunlight falling on the surface is primarily in the visible part of the spectrum. However, the reflection of light from the surface tends to produce light of longer wavelength called infrared (IR) radiation (also known as radiant heat–IR radiation is the heat that we sense being radiated from a hot surface like a hot piece of metal).

Now, because of their molecular structures, certain gases like carbon dioxide and water vapor (and many others) have the property that they are essentially transparent to visible light but absorb IR radiation very strongly, raising the temperature well beyond what solar radiation would indicate. This is why the surface temperature of Venus exceeds temperatures on the surface of Mercury, making Venus the hottest planet.

On earth, most of the water is surface oceans, if it were to evaporate into the atmosphere runaway greenhouse effect would heat earth, and fortunately carbon dioxide is mostly bound chemically in rocks made from compounds that chemists call carbonates (for example, limestone). SO what released Venus's CO2 into it's atmosphere that hasn't happened to earth? Well, for one it is about 42 million miles closer to the sun and its day is longer than its year, with that in mind the temperatures were sufficiently high enough to drive the carbon dioxide from the rocks into the atmosphere, the process is called sublimation. The carbon dioxide feeding into the atmosphere would accelerate the heating, which would in turn accelerate the transfer of carbon dioxide from the rocks to the atmosphere.

In the case of Venus the initial solar heating kept oceans from forming, or kept them from staying around if they did form, and the subsequent lack of rainfall and failure of plant life to evolve kept the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere rather than binding it in the rocks as is the case for the Earth; thus, Venus's atmosphere is an environmental disaster. What is bound to the surface of earth was released into the atmosphere of Venus, which accounts for the atmospheric pressure of Venus to be 90 times that of earth's, should earth follow the process that took place on Venus (highly unlikely to that degree) earth's atmospheric pressure would increase 100 times.

All of that suggests expansion of a planet's atmosphere could not reach such ridiculous distances (suggested in this thread) without breaking free of the gravitational attraction of the planet's mass, it would dissipate into the vast void of interplanetary space, billions if not trillions or more the physical volume which would/could be from 30 to 300 km around the surface of Venus. Over 90% of earth's atmosphere is within 30 km above the surface of earth, where fortunately most of the potential 'greenhouse gases' are molecularly bound at, in, and on the surface.

OK some of my numbers are a bit off, 90% of earth's atmosphere is within 10 km from the surface, 90% within 50 km of Venus's surface. These distance corrections should strengthen the impossibility of an atmosphere of a planet in the inner solar system to expand anywhere near the distances of the outer gas giants, which also are exponentially inadequate to reach earth from Venus.

Originally posted by Ophiuchus 13
If a human was on Venus now and could withstand the acid showers and pools of dense gases (and others) in a suit would they be able to swim/float in Venus Atmosphere.

Atmospheric pressure does not equate to buoyancy. You are a solid, the atmosphere is gas, gravity will pull you closer to the 900º surface where you will burn up and become part of the atmosphere, then you can float.

The temperature and pressure on the surface of Venus are so extreme that none of the armored Russian spacecraft of the Venera series lasted more than an hour on the surface. Temperature destroyed the well-insulated and highly protected Russian electronics of the Venera surface craft within an hour.

hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...

reply to post by Illustronic

Now, because of their molecular structures, certain gases like carbon dioxide and water vapor (and many others) have the property that they are essentially transparent to visible light but absorb IR radiation very strongly, raising the temperature well beyond what solar radiation would indicate. This is why the surface temperature of Venus exceeds temperatures on the surface of Mercury, making Venus the hottest planet.

The idea that CO2 is responsible for significantly increasing the global warming on Venus seems false to me. We can demonstrate this fact simply with the IPCC's own logarithmic equation that relates CO2 increments to radiative forcing increments which I stated in a recent topic as: RF = (C1/CO)In*5.35. Thus we get: (975000/1)In = 13.7901927*5.35 = 73.77W/sq.m for the total atmospheric CO2 on Venus. I got a value of 230K for the effective surface temperature of Venus (i.e. the surface temperature of the planet without a greenhouse) from the following website (www.imcce.fr...). 230K gives us 158.6W/sq.m by the Stefan Boltzmann law. The IPCC's formula gives us 73.77W/sq.m. Therefore new surface irradiance is 232.7W/sq.m which gives us 253.1K. Hence the atmospheric CO2 on Venus can only increase the temperature by 23K/C. The significant warming on Venus I think is probably mainly down to the very thick sulphuric acid clouds. Either way, CO2 doesn't contribute much and the warmists claims are soundly refuted by their own equations! If anyone spots any mistakes in my workings, I would welcome correction.

On topic, I don't think that Venus' atmosphere can expand over Earth's. Seems crazy. Topics like this should be destroyed by the forum's algorithms to save people from having to read them.

reply to post by Ophiuchus 13

I was considering how DENSE the atmosphere is there.

We know this ONLY because our scientists and astronomers say it is so, not because we have been there, or seen it with our own eyes. I, for one, do not trust what anyone in power tell me about Space anymore, as far as I am concerned they are all liars. I have no proof for the following story, but I believe it happened just like my uncle says it did.

In 1962 my uncle developed TB, a very bad case. He was transported to a hospital in Cincinnati Ohio, and was in there for 7 months all told. Almost right away he went into a coma, and the doctors did not have much hope that he would recover. He was in the coma for over five months. When he finally woke up, he asked for pen and paper. The doctors were amazed that the TB was gone from his frail body.
I have read what he wrote in the three day period when he wrote this down.

He wrote that he had been transported to Venus, and that he had lived there, and received treatment for his illness. He wrote that he had a family there, and that they were all happy to see him. He wrote of their technologies, and science, far above what we here in the Stone Age can do. He wrote that they had an ordered society, in which there was no medium of money, no form of politics, no race barriers, and no religion to speak of. The population lived in vast cities underground, complete with good air to breathe, and sunshine from an unknown source. He describes it as a tropical paradise. there is no marriage there, but people have lovers. Children are not raised by their parents, and everyone is about mid 30s, illness and sickness are not present here.

All conflicts were handled by a High Council of very high vibrational beings, 12 of them, and their decisions were final. Everyone did what he or she liked to do, and everything in the way of food and substance was free. There were portals that would take you anywhere on the planet in a flash. He wrote of a thing people call "Christ," but it was not in that way human beings think of it, it is more like a collective consciousness mindset.

In 1957 American got a visitor from Venus, this one landed his spacecraft and got out.

On March 16, 1957 in Alexandria, Virginia, Valiant Thor landed his craft and was met by two police officers, weapons drawn. Through thought transference, he convinced the officers he meant no harm as he was ushered into the back of their patrol car. After crossing over into Washington, D.C., they were met by the Secretary of Defense along with six of his staff members.

Valiant Thor from the Planet Venus

A Holy Stranger in the Pentagonal Lodge

Valiant Thor The Human Alien From Venus, Washington D.C. V.I.P. During Late 50's

I submit that the dense atmosphere we see on Venus is there for a very good reason. To keep unwanted visitors away.

reply to post by autowrench


Well sorry mr. Autowrench but if you think you can survive 894 °F surface temperatures then why don't you be the first man on Venus..

Of course we have sent probes to Venus that didn't last long.. It's hard for electronics to work when their overheat temperature is hundreds and hundreds of degrees lower than the surface temperature.

What would happen if the Earth's atmosphere became like Venus?

What happens to a chicken when you bake it at 400 °F?

reply to post by Ophiuchus 13


you might want to read [or re-read] Velikovsky's World's in Collision
as he claimed that Venus's atmosphere [or cometary tail]
had mixed with ours on it's way to it's current orbit.

Velikovsky has a bad rep, true,
but some of his predictions [which he claimed would prove his theory]
have actually been confirmed by mainstream scientists.

Originally posted by jdub297
I think I've ruined my reputation, just by positing such inanities to a 6th-grader.

jw

Its all good whats a reputation when seeking certain data. and yes lol they are spread apart but again I was also adding something chemically changing the Venus atmosphere or causing the Earth and Venus to come closer to each other.

Be well

reply to post by DerepentLEstranger


Thank you and Venus tails means it was moving lol. I appreciate ALL the input thus far again I was processing this for some time and just wondered if the Venus atmosphere somehow came incontact with Earth what the effects would be. Would Earth drain the atmosphere or incorporate it into the new refiltered from pollution skys. Thats is all as far as it expanding from far distant points when Earth and Venus are apart NO but during the 5 star close encounters yes if it was somehow chemically changed from something foreign. Again thanks all for your inputs I know its a strange 1 but i have been wondering. Hopefully many are correct that there is no way for one celestial body on its ancient axis ( but not original axis) to be moved into closer vicinity of another, but then that would mean no celestial encounters in this local solar system ever happened. As if to say NO other celestials ever came close to each other and to go further impacted due to exterior forces within the same vicinity.

Be well Gotta drop a OUTTA box thread on the occasion

Originally posted by Ophiuchus 13

Originally posted by CLPrime
There's a difference, though, between the atmosphere of Venus, which is not capable of sustaining nuclear reaction, and the atmospheres of stars, which are.

YES I agree.

Originally posted by CLPrime
In order for the atmosphere of Venus to expand to envelope Earth, it needs to be able to sustain a nuclear reaction (that's what holds stars together... when this process ends, they explode and/or collapse). But, in order for the atmosphere of Venus to sustain a nuclear reaction, it needs to already be a massive ball of hydrogen. It's obviously not a massive ball of hydrogen, so such an occurrence is physically impossible.

edit on 12-7-2011 by CLPrime because: (no reason given)

I totally understand your point of view from Earth current scientific understandings, and I used the atom as a example of how something can be small but chemically change during splitting to effect its surroundings from a distance. I dont hink VENUS is gonna blow at all I was just considering how the thick dense heated acidic ENERGIZING atmosphere would effect Earths atmosphere if by some way they were to encounter each other. Thats all. Like I said no doom and gloom just science.

I really wonder what it would be like on Earth if somehow Venus was chemically changed and started expanding its atmosphere. An atmosphere that has cooked under SOL for a long time.

thanks again

edit on 7/12/11 by Ophiuchus 13 because: (no reason given)

The atom thing and the atmosphere thing are not relatable. I get that you are trying to say something small can release a huge amount of energy, but there is a reason nuclear fission produces so much energy. When you are stretching the atom, youre breaking the gluons bond with nuclei, which is a very strong bond. The break in these bonds cause massive amounts of energy released, to the form of 200 MeV. Venus' atmosphere does not have that energy capability, nor a source of energy which would allow it to expand so rapidly.

reply to post by Unity_99


Stay on topic, this isnt some whacky elenin spiritual light being thread.

On a side note: do you actually believe all that stuff you spew?

If Venus developed enough gravity to hold on to such a huge atmosphere, then this cloud would be the least of our worries. Venus would eat earth, then the sun, and let out a belch.

Originally posted by DaMod
reply to post by autowrench

 

Well sorry mr. Autowrench but if you think you can survive 894 °F surface temperatures then why don't you be the first man on Venus..

Of course we have sent probes to Venus that didn't last long.. It's hard for electronics to work when their overheat temperature is hundreds and hundreds of degrees lower than the surface temperature.

What would happen if the Earth's atmosphere became like Venus?

What happens to a chicken when you bake it at 400 °F?

edit on 13-7-2011 by DaMod because: (no reason given)

You failed to read my post. Did I say anything about the surface? No, I did not. Here is what I said about the Venusian Society that my uncle told me about. I made bold the appropriate word for you:

The population lived in vast cities underground, complete with good air to breathe, and sunshine from an unknown source.

Go back and read it again, then make comment. Do you read books like that also?

reply to post by TheDebunkMachine


YES I do! Any skeptic who really believes what they spew needs some mind work, because theirs isn't working too well.


OPERATION TROJAN HORSE 08 - DENVER INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT (UNDERGROUND)


OPERATION TROJAN HORSE 09 - DENVER INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT (VENTS & MUSTANG


Denver Airport / Anubis God of Death

Oh, yea, this is all for king tut museum piece?

Uhm this is a rather, incredibly pointless question.
It will never ever ever ever happen, and even if it could, the sun would reach the end of it's life before.
So why even bother/worry?