Reform the Prison System

Opinion: The prison system does not work. Prisoners need to make amends and give back to society by being put to work. They should be doing something useful for society such as crafting things, building things or somehow being of service to larger society. This ends up making prisoners feel better about themselves and us benefiting from them as some form of compensation for what they have taken. The way things are now, prisoners are only costing us a lot of money, are mostly not getting better in the company of other criminals (many become even more criminal in prison).

How much does it cost me in taxes to guard, clothe, feed and wash one prisoner every year? And what am I getting back for these costs?

What is the point of prisoners just sitting around and vegetating for decades?

Prisoners should work, and if they have given enough back to society, some of them should be let free (especially those in prison for minor offences and those who have proven themselves with good conduct).

Does anyone else realize how ineffective our prison system is?

What should be done about it?

I agree that it is not effective – and I agree with your post, but would like to post my idea on how the prison system should work.



You get caught for weed – You have to do community service every time & pay a fine, no jail sentence.

You get caught for hard drugs (using) – You are forced into a rehab center, where you may not leave until you are clean. This will allow the addict to have an actual chance to recover. No Jail sentence.

You get caught for hard drugs (Selling) – Prison Sentence & Fine & Community Service (and enforced rehab if you have the drug in your system).

You get charged for murder – Prison Sentence for Life & Supervised Community Service.

You get charged for rape – Prison sentence for Life & Supervised Community Service.

You get charged for a financial issue – Minimum Security Prison & Community Service & Huge Fine which goes to pay the national debt.

You get charged for any other type of crime – Minimum Security Prision & Community Service & Fine.

If you rape someone while in jail – you are moved to a maximum security prision for life & supervised community service.

reply to post by Skyfloating


I know people that have participated in Prison Farms, and really turned their lives around!

The closest we have to modern day gladiators!!
McAlester Oklahoma Prison Rodeo

Prison factories produce hope!

My personal opinion is that prison sentences of 1 to 12 years make sense, if they are combined with good programs that educate and rehabilitate.

The flipside of that opinion is that prison sentences greater than 20 years make no sense, have no hope of rehabilitation, and are a waste of resources and lifetimes.

Therefore, my opinion is to get rid of mandatory sentencing, get rid of long prison sentences, give non-violent offenders shorter terms with more intense therapy and education, and give repeat violent offenders the death penalty more often and more quickly! Conserve resources for those prisoners that can actually be helped, and stop wasting resources on those prisoners that will eventually die in prison anyway. Get it over with sooner rather than later!

Prisoners already work and produce a variety of products from sliced bread to forklifts. In my area, Missouri/Illinois, the State takes around 80% of a prisoners wages to pay for the expense of holding them.

I know your post wasn't specifically about prison labor, I just wanted to point out that those prisoners who volunteer to work are very productive. Some labor unions and human rights orgs. even claim prisoners are being exploited.

The prison system (along with many other systems in this country) is broken.

We have allowed our country to become a penal country. We've allowed the business of sending someone to prison, to become a business.

I don't agree with prison, I don't think any human should be given charge of watching over another human. What we should have is a chunk of land or maybe an island where we send our violent offenders that repeatedly cause harm to someone. This place will be for prisoners that receive a sentence of greater than 10 years.

Send them to this land or island, provide that place with minimum resources (maybe seeds and some young animals to raise) and let them survive.

What this will do is allow them to decide if they once again want to join society. However they should know that if they harm another again they will be executed or expelled to "prison" forever.

Persons who are guilty of theft or something else nonviolent should be forced to pay the stolen back and have a minimum sentence. There should be very few drug related punishments, unless someone physically injects a drug in someones vein without that persons consent.

Crimes such as fraud, should be punished by the guilty paying fines to society or their victims, not sitting in a cell.

to fix this crazy messed up system you have to stop the forfeiture of property for drug offences
that reward police to hire more police to take more property to keep the cycle going
the thing is that property is sold before the trial so no way innocent before proven guilty anymore
so they do not go after criminals just drugs all for money and sell the bag of goods to the public that this is to protect our children
we gave away our 4th amendment rights to the lies of the war on drugs
how many jails are full of murderers or rapists
steal 300000 and get 2 yrs
bag of weed 3-10 and lose all your property
murder someone 7 yrs
until people see the lie of the money machine of the justice system they do not care
where did my country go? this is not the country i volunteered to serve during nam
time to start over no fix available too late ahhhhh

The current "for profit" prison system is indeed a failure, As long as there is a profit motive there will be reasons to place people in the system simply to generate income. It also encourages lawmakers to create new offenses so that new "criminals" are inducted into the system.

I see no value whatever in placing most non-violent offenders behind bars. Countless families, relationships and promising careers have been ruined. The figures on recidivism would scare anyone. Once behind bars, people are far more likely to end up back in jail after release due to the difficulty in securing employment as well as adjusting back to living in a society that you are estranged from.

Most of the new skills acquired while living behind bars are how to deal with adversarial relationships either through intimidation or violence. These are skills many learn just to survive among the general prison population.These leave a deep impression on the psyches of the inmate who is now learning to treat everyone as a potential lethal threat. As for learning useful trades or any kind of self-improvement there is little to be happy about. What shreds of humanity these inmates once had are long gone when most get out.

The idea behind the Prison system is to punish and to rehabilitate, It would seem to fail on both counts. Although Sharia law is loudly denounced in the west many still find appeal in the idea of Hammurabi's code - an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth - which is the basis of Islamic law. It does seem more fitting often to punish in such a manner, which has a very real deterrent value for those contemplating criminal acts.

I don't agree with say, chopping off one's hand for stealing but certainly punishment should me made to fit the crime. The junk bond broker who steals $2 million should lose that amountand be made to pay restitution to their victims.Whatever the crime a jury can certainly make a reasonable decision on an appropriate punishment.

What about restitution? Why are the victims ignored by the entire judicial process? I feel the criminal, once convicted owes a debt to both the state and the victims. As it currently stands, if someone attacks you and breaks your jaw you have to pay the hospital and then you have to pay to have your attacker tried and if convicted you pay for their incarceration. That's triple jeopardy even though you were the victim!

I may not have all the solutions but I do know that our criminal justice system is not working in the best interests of society, the victim or the criminal. It's working to keep some shareholder happy with their profit margin.

The prison system is definitely one place where capitalism does not belong.

reply to post by Skyfloating

They should be doing something useful for society such as crafting things, building things or somehow being of service to larger society.

It's so unfair isn't it! They should be out there pulling their weight like the rest of the slaves! To think everything comes free in prison, gosh!

reply to post by Asktheanimals

I don't agree with say, chopping off one's hand for stealing but certainly punishment should me made to fit the crime.

If the crime is stealing bread to feed one's family, then the system should find a way to put that energy and resourcefullness to work in a good way, and there should be no punishment.

If the crime is stealing jewelry to hock for drugs, then a year of rehab, counseling, and education seems appropriate. In the case of recidivism, then chopping off the hand seems appropriate, or worse!

Non-violent crimes, such as theft, should carry minimal sentences, and much rehabilitation.

Victimless crimes is an oxymoron to me! It isn't a crime if there isn't a victim, and NO, the state cannot be the victim! Drug use, prostitution, seatbelts, life jackets, are all ridiculous notions to be crimes.

Violent crimes should be dealt with violently! Not drunken bar fights, but domestic abuse, rape, murder, etc. Those things should carry harsh, irreversible penalties, such as eye for an eye, or death! However, I believe in the case of a death penalty, it should not be a state-sanctioned, clinically humane execution, I believe the victim's family should be responsible for pulling the lever, or sending in the drugs, or firing the bullets. If the family doesn't want that right, then the offender gets punished in some other appropriate manner and released. Letting a third party be responsible for the execution is just sanctioning another murder. No life sentence, no third party execution.

reply to post by monkcaw


the amount of pay they take does not put a dent in what the prisoner owes at release .18hr takes a lifetime to add up to the 30-40 dollars a day they owe
so when they get out and find out how much they still owe they end up doing something to pay it off
seeing as the only jobs left are mcdonalds the slave end up back in their system
hum sound like a ponzy scheme to me could bankers and politics have any bearing ??

Originally posted by Skyfloating

How much does it cost me in taxes to guard, clothe, feed and wash one prisoner every year? And what am I getting back for these costs?

It's about $40,000/year.

The easiest and most immediate thing to do is to make sure the prisoner is there for a $40,000 crime.

Prison for financial obligations can also be ended. Being locked up doesnt help you pay your debt and it doesnt help who you owe collect anything.

And of course prohibition laws.

There, I've just saved the fed and the states billions and billions.

Where's my medal?

reply to post by Skyfloating

What is the point of prisoners just sitting around and vegetating for decades?

Uh, to protect society from more harm?

It's stupid for some people who are in prison to be there,(marijuana possession) but those Ted Bundy types have to stay confined to prevent them from doing their dirty work on others. They are not really there for "rehabilitation". They are there to prevent them from being here.

(Yeah, I know Bundy is dead. )

one more thing that needs to be done is if a sentence is completed and you have paid your debt to society
that should be it and done not let everyone discriminate against ex-cons so maybe they could get a real job and not have to go back to old habits
second offence throw the book at em but first hidden record as long as productive citizen
some of these people make one mistake and are labeled for life
not very just and keeps the swinging door revolving

reply to post by RUNSILENT


oh and one more thing no 15 yrs before death penalty
short and quick stop the lawyers machine dragging on forever

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by Skyfloating

 

I know people that have participated in Prison Farms, and really turned their lives around!

That has a good ring to it. If the inmates are productive that not only helps them make amends and rehabilitate, but it also gives something back for the enormous amount of money we are spending on them.

If this is empirically proven to work well maybe its only a matter of time until it becomes standard.

Originally posted by ladyinwaiting
Uh, to protect society from more harm?

I did not call for them to be released instead of sitting around, but to work instead of sitting around.

Originally posted by DZAG Wright

I don't agree with prison, I don't think any human should be given charge of watching over another human. What we should have is a chunk of land or maybe an island where we send our violent offenders that repeatedly cause harm to someone. This place will be for prisoners that receive a sentence of greater than 10 years.

Like Australia?

Send them to this land or island, provide that place with minimum resources (maybe seeds and some young animals to raise) and let them survive.

Sounds interesting. Could be an experiment in how people cope in anarchy.

What this will do is allow them to decide if they once again want to join society. However they should know that if they harm another again they will be executed or expelled to "prison" forever.

Persons who are guilty of theft or something else nonviolent should be forced to pay the stolen back and have a minimum sentence. There should be very few drug related punishments, unless someone physically injects a drug in someones vein without that persons consent.

Crimes such as fraud, should be punished by the guilty paying fines to society or their victims, not sitting in a cell.

Yes. Making amends should be more useful than sitting in a cell.

If someone steals money from me I dont want him to sit in a cell, I want him to work to pay me back.

Originally posted by MentorsRiddle

You get caught for weed – You have to do community service every time & pay a fine, no jail sentence.

If there is one thing that is truly a scandalous waste of taxpayers money then its potheads being imprisoned at my expense. I couldnt agree more with this sentiment.

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
Most of the new skills acquired while living behind bars are how to deal with adversarial relationships either through intimidation or violence. These are skills many learn just to survive among the general prison population.These leave a deep impression on the psyches of the inmate who is now learning to treat everyone as a potential lethal threat. As for learning useful trades or any kind of self-improvement there is little to be happy about. What shreds of humanity these inmates once had are long gone when most get out.

Id have figured those in charge of our prison system would have figured this one out by now. There are enough studies that demonstrate the psychological tension deepens in prison instead of being alleviated. This sets them up for more crime when they leave. People think prison is supposed to be "correction", but how many prisoners come out of prison "corrected"?

Regarding your statement on profit: If its something like a "Prison Farm" that profits society as a whole, then profit is very welcome.

Sure, my plan is not realistic, but humor me:

If our government refuses to pull us out of these wars, then any able-bodied person sentenced to prison time should be shipped off to boot camp to train for battle. Send these a***oles to fight these wars and let them put THEIR lives on the line. I mean, Jesus, we've got bright young men and women offering their lives for us while populations of jerks have no appreciation for that fact and go around wreaking havoc on our communities stealing, murdering dealing dope and thieving. Screw that. Let the convicts answer to a drill sergeant. Then, if these guys go fight and make it back in one piece after their service, maybe they can be released or paroled if they still have time to do.

The death penalty is no deterrent for murder because death means freedom from this world in the minds of some. However, I wonder how many gang-bangers and others with a thug mentality would relish the idea of being shipped off to Iraq to be put on the front lines? Maybe that would be a deterrent. Maybe it would make them appreciate what they have. Maybe they would learn some self-respect if they had to do military service.