The Danger of Materialism and The Illusion of Separation

Materialism, from my perspective, is very dangerous to the human psyche and the world in general.

Nearly no one recognizes their true self because they are blinded by the possession of wealth, material things, and power. Humans are the only living thing on this planet that do this.

Materialism is an illusion. We surround ourselves with material things and enjoy the splendor that they have to offer, but consequently, we forget about nature and lead ourselves to believe that we are separate from it. Forgetting about nature is very dangerous for humans. Some people are so blinded by materialism that they forget that they are in fact nature as well. Now you see the danger in materialism. We completely surround ourselves with unnatural material human creations and we lose our true self as part and one with nature.

Its almost seems like materialism is an invention specifically designed to make us forget our true selves. That's my opinion because attraction to material things whether you are aware of it or not greatly alters your perception of reality. In fact, now that I think about it, it seems like materialism is directly related to all the problems we have on this Earth including but not limited to greed, distrust, control, pride, hate, jealousy, war, etc.

It seems like if you were to take away everything that is not natural besides necessities such as comfortable housing and such, that there would be an automatic sense of equality and oneness with nature. This would lead to a cessation of conflict and a more blissful Earth with highly desirable living conditions. Under the veil of materiality, we are all the same. This would be realized in such a way that I wouldn't have any desire to cause conflict in any way.

You seem to be fleshing out my brief "age of materialism" comments in response to the earlier thread "The Flavor of Ego." We need more thinking such as this even if ignored and not taken seriously by many materialist.

Unfortunately, it is normal for some animals to collect things and it can be expected that humans would be the worst offenders of Nature in this regard, and rightly so. Perhaps the survivial instinct gone a bit haywire?

I suspect efforts are in play to correct this defect, but such thinking is so off-the-wall and out-of-this-world that few will consider it as legitimate or of a concern to the state we find ourselves within. In other words, they find the concept unthinkable.

Originally posted by Aliensun
You seem to be fleshing out my brief "age of materialism" comments in response to the earlier thread "The Flavor of Ego." We need more thinking such as this even if ignored and not taken seriously by many materialist.

Unfortunately, it is normal for some animals to collect things and it can be expected that humans would be the worst offenders of Nature in this regard, and rightly so. Perhaps the survivial instinct gone a bit haywire?

I suspect efforts are in play to correct this defect, but such thinking is so off-the-wall and out-of-this-world that few will consider it as legitimate or of a concern to the state we find ourselves within. In other words, they find the concept unthinkable.

Unthinkable is a strong word. Fortunately, this fact can't be ignored, and eventually we will have to realize that in order to live at one with nature, we must do away with what separates us from it.

Not only do we separate ourselves from the rest of nature with material things, but we separate humans from humans as well. I agree that it would be hard to promote complete non-materialism, however I believe that there is at least a step forward into a common ground in the area of deseparation of humanity from each other. All we have to do is implement a uniform material dispensation to accent the similarities in humans. This would still be keeping us separate from the rest of nature, but at least humanity could be united. While the danger of materialism would still be present, it would still promote a greater planetary awareness.

If humanity became unified in this way, I see how human conflicts would lessen and perhaps cease completely and I envision a more productive society. As a consequence of our half-assed dematerialization, we may be in danger of still neglecting the planet as a whole and perhaps further promote the illusions of our power over it. This would lead to greater technologies and such, but ultimately we would be spiritually lacking.

On one hand, we would continue to rape the Earth of what its worth. On the other hand we would launch ourselves at light speed into an age of technological and conceptual revolution.

all things are perfect when in balance... It is not one to blame the material, it is one to blame themselves, for the imbalance.. Our virtues of our species is also our vice.. Being without material would still instill the same nature of man, then what appears to you now, if not worse... No one is special enough to be alone in this world, it has to be shared.... Human nature has always and always have that instinct that proves our imperfection... We are naive to think of perfection being without or envisioning utopia's when we are all sharing the same bread, someone will invent butter to put on it and then someone will want it, and so the complexity occurs, and the vices reveal themselves.. It is nature... Materialism tries to harness those vices and in a futile attempt tries to control it...


my head is startin to hurt..

Originally posted by Bicent76
all things are perfect when in balance... It is not one to blame the material, it is one to blame themselves, for the imbalance.. Our virtues of our species is also our vice.. Being without material would still instill the same nature of man, then what appears to you now, if not worse... No one is special enough to be alone in this world, it has to be shared....

Human nature has always and always have that instinct that proves our imperfection... We are naive to think of perfection being without or envisioning utopia's when we are all sharing the same bread, someone will invent butter to put on it and then someone will want it, and so the complexity occurs, and the vices reveal themselves.. It is nature... Materialism tries to harness those vices and in a futile attempt tries to control it...

my head is startin to hurt..

So basically we are in disagreement here, and I will defend my thread, and you will defend your post and we will never be able to see eye to eye (this is how things work).

All I know to do is accent your argument against mine. You argue that materialism is a good way to combat negativity. I argue that materialism is in large part directly responsible for all negativity.

I urge you to re-think your belief and see it from my perspective. I have been subject to materialism, and now that I have broken free, I don't want to go back, and from the outside looking in, I see how am right for the path that I am on. You may be right for your path, but I warn you, you are on the path of destruction, which is okay, but ultimately, you will find out that nothingness and infinity are the same and you caused yourself a lot of grief by being destructive. However, you are likely unaware that you are on the path to destruction, but I assure you materialism and the support of materialism is an on ramp to the interstate highway of destruction.

Not only that, but I can tell by the emotional context of your reply that this is where you are, and I am not criticizing you or trying to control your direction in any way except by raising awareness that at this moment, and in this reply, you are acting negatively. Usually a negative action is part of a greater negative path that seems to have no end in sight, and that is because negativity doesn't have an end. Read my signature.

But back to the issue at hand. My question to you is, do you not see that material things make you look different than me and accent our individuality in such a way as to distract us from the fact that we are actually the same thing as human and as nature? Being at one with nature is something special that not many people get to experience, and this is why I'm being so blunt with you. I just want you to get on the same page as me, because the weather is nice up here, and I want everyone to experience that intense joy for being alive that I do.

Oneness is a greater evil. All about putting your "selfish" desires aside for the good of the collective.

I think if we were less absorbed w/ things to set us apart from each other or express ourselves, we would be more inclined to think and use our minds, and the arts to show people who we are...Not defining our self with logoed shirts, fancy phones, and gas guzzling hummers and what not..

Those that are consumed by materialism eventually lose thier connection to the ecosystem and are denied of the "life force" of the natural grid.

Only those who honour thier instinct to survive and those whom are spiritually advanced and "service to others" are able to remain connected.

We today live in a materialistic world. Everything is controlled really by media, We make ourselves think we need things such as clothes, new phones, a new style like haircuts or jewelry. things we think will enhance us and make us feel more noticed or fit in better with the crowds.
When ever we see from our favorite artists in music videos all the way to actors in movies we know we cant be them but we can be like them in ways such as owning something they do. It's all of the commercials and the hype certain things get from advertisement that sells it, makes everything look so good that it could even change your life and when you get like a new phone the best part of it only lasts for a month or so if that. We are very blind of what life is about and what really needs to be done. We live among a world of small minded people.
But we must remember this world and the people are advancing at a fast rate, in a lot of the cases we will need to keep up with our society to get anywhere further. Sad to say getting anywhere further isn't going to happen if you stick to the old handbook you have to get out the new age handbook here and there. After all civilians being able to visit space is just right around the corner.
So in ways I agree to this but not if someones mind set isn't about being "cool."
I think we have forgotten to just be ourselves and to use our minds more and think more not be controlled by the hot new trends and always worried about being cool and fitting in.
"If you don't have something then you probably don't need it."
It's good to hear people notice these things and are asking questions, mostly everyone thinks all of this is so normal because they grew into the life style and have been brainwashed in a sense if you will..

Humans are not nature they conquer nature, they rule it with an iron fist and comparing us to nature is just silly. We are the most powerful creatures on earth and should not be compared to other creatures.

Peoples true self is self-importance not being one with nature. If you feel you need to bounce around the forest naked with Bambi that is your choice but it is not human nature. Humans were giving the intelligence to rise above nature and the other creatures that inhabit it. You may argue if how we are going about it is the right way or the wrong way but we have outgrown living as part of nature the day we could make fire.

You may think material things are bad but I think they are good. They improve life in countless ways however if you disagree your welcome to do without them. That is a choice your intelligence allows you to make. Other creatures in nature do not have that choice.

We are absolutely nature. A reflection of all that is. Many have consciously or unconsciously unplugged themselves through materialism. Materials are tools, however when they become the focus of your existence then you are removed from the source...as someone said "the life force", the unified field.

Like they say, stop and smell the roses. Then look at the rose....really look at the intricate beauty, the fractal patterns...you will start to see these patterns everywhere if you pay attention.

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by smithjustinb


The 'danger' is not inherent in materialism but in the greed of basic animal instinct. Paying more attention to nature and the habits of its creatures demonstrates that humans are not the only greedy species. So if you think that stripping down to a loincloth and gathering nuts and berries in the forest is going to solve this basic issue, I'm afraid you are wrong.

Originally posted by 547000
Oneness is a greater evil. All about putting your "selfish" desires aside for the good of the collective.

I think its just misunderstood. Real oneness is inevitably who we are. Its not about doing anything besides just being more and more of our true selves. Duality is inherent in creation, but it is just an illusion. The illusion is made from the paradox of infinity/nothing which is one. We are a dualistic expression of that.

Originally posted by MidnightSunshine
I think if we were less absorbed w/ things to set us apart from each other or express ourselves, we would be more inclined to think and use our minds, and the arts to show people who we are...Not defining our self with logoed shirts, fancy phones, and gas guzzling hummers and what not..

Exactly.

Originally posted by kro32
Humans are not nature they conquer nature, they rule it with an iron fist and comparing us to nature is just silly. We are the most powerful creatures on earth and should not be compared to other creatures.

Peoples true self is self-importance not being one with nature. If you feel you need to bounce around the forest naked with Bambi that is your choice but it is not human nature. Humans were giving the intelligence to rise above nature and the other creatures that inhabit it. You may argue if how we are going about it is the right way or the wrong way but we have outgrown living as part of nature the day we could make fire.

You may think material things are bad but I think they are good. They improve life in countless ways however if you disagree your welcome to do without them. That is a choice your intelligence allows you to make. Other creatures in nature do not have that choice.

I am grateful for the lessons materialism has taught me, and ultimately the knowledge gained therein that could not have been established without it. If I went out today and ran around with bambi in the wild, I would still be an intelligent human, but my intelligence would become largely irrelevant next to the feeling of peace and enjoyment that I would have from living a simple life.

You are free to remain blinded by the illusion of materialism if you wish, because that is your path. But you are absolutely foolish to think that you are above nature or something other than it. You go through all the same NATURAL processes that the rest of the universe goes through and you have not separated yourself from it in any way except for your beliefs that you are separate from it. You are absolutely 100% completely WRONG for assuming you aren't nature. That's a fact jack.

For my path, nature should be respected, not conquered. To respect nature is to respect myself. To enjoy nature is to enjoy myself. Like I said, we are inseparable regardless of how much I would like to think we are different. Don't be a fool.

Originally posted by TravelerintheDark
reply to post by smithjustinb

 

The 'danger' is not inherent in materialism but in the greed of basic animal instinct. Paying more attention to nature and the habits of its creatures demonstrates that humans are not the only greedy species. So if you think that stripping down to a loincloth and gathering nuts and berries in the forest is going to solve this basic issue, I'm afraid you are wrong.

Ultimately, materialism taught us a lesson. It taught us how to act civilized and organized among many other things. Like I said, I am grateful for materialism, but I belive materialism has served it purpose.

We are nature, but we have been given inherent gifts in our design. Namely, self-awareness. This separates our intellect from lesser animals, but it does not separate us from nature. That is impossible, unless you are a clone or a robot.

Now that we have learned from materialism, we can do away with it, to accent our similarities to help create peace and minimize conflicts.

Originally posted by smithjustinb
We are nature, but we have been given inherent gifts in our design. Namely, self-awareness. This separates our intellect from lesser animals, but it does not separate us from nature.

You're right about us being a part of nature, but actually dolphins, crows, elephants to name a couple are self-aware creatures. You should check my thread What Defines Us As Human. I posted a lot of 'evidence' to demonstrate that there is little to no difference between humans and the rest of the animal kingdom.

As for materialism, it's a material world and the only way to do away with it is to destroy it. I think we would be better off learning acceptance of our material nature and opposing greed, which was at the core of my thread The Flavor of Ego.

Namaste,
Traveler in the Dark

Originally posted by TravelerintheDark

Originally posted by smithjustinb
We are nature, but we have been given inherent gifts in our design. Namely, self-awareness. This separates our intellect from lesser animals, but it does not separate us from nature.

You're right about us being a part of nature, but actually dolphins, crows, elephants to name a couple are self-aware creatures. You should check my thread What Defines Us As Human. I posted a lot of 'evidence' to demonstrate that there is little to no difference between humans and the rest of the animal kingdom.

As for materialism, it's a material world and the only way to do away with it is to destroy it. I think we would be better off learning acceptance of our material nature and opposing greed, which was at the core of my thread The Flavor of Ego.Traveler in the Dark

I saw your thread "the flavor of ego" up the other day. I haven't go a chance to read it yet, but I'll take a look at it later today probably and your other one too. Actually, I remember reading a thread someone posted about how all those lifeforms you mentioned are self aware. It had demonstrations of the "mirror-dot-on-eye" experiment or whatever its called.

We are in fact self aware, but we are learning different lessons. I think the main lesson we as humans are learning at this point is materialism. Materialism is the invention that fosters the illusion of separation. Crows, elephants, and dolphins do not have this. This is largely due to the fact they do not have an opposable thumb.

Materialism is probably the difference between knowledge and wisdom.

reply to post by smithjustinb


I understand your point but to say we are completely nature is indeed false. Humans have and are learning how to manipulate things outside of the natural world and that knowledge will continue to grow as time passes. We can now make living beings outside of the natural process or slow down death outside of the natural process. Yes we ultimately will die but not when nature would have intended us too.

There will come a time when humans knowledge as increased to a point where we no longer need nature for anything and that's a fact jack.

Originally posted by kro32
reply to post by smithjustinb

 

I understand your point but to say we are completely nature is indeed false. Humans have and are learning how to manipulate things outside of the natural world and that knowledge will continue to grow as time passes. We can now make living beings outside of the natural process or slow down death outside of the natural process. Yes we ultimately will die but not when nature would have intended us too.

There will come a time when humans knowledge as increased to a point where we no longer need nature for anything and that's a fact jack.

To say we are completely nature is obviously not false. Unless you are a clone or a robot, then you are natural. Whatever unnatural things you create and surround yourself with makes no difference in what you are. However, it might make a difference in how you perceive yourself. Which brings us back to the issue at hand. Perceiving yourself as unnatural because you are so surrounded by material things is directly proportional and equivalent to your loss of respect for nature. Being nature as a human being, that includes losing respect for human beings as well. However, respect lost for the nature of human is respect gained for the so-called powerful human with the most and greatest materials.

I agree with your second statement. Humans will increase their knowledge to the point where they even manufacture humans themselves. At that point, those cloned humans will no longer be natural.