Age of the Sphinx, A glaring issue about it's age!

reply to post by SLAYER69


I enjoyed your post and have often thought about the Sphinx and Pyramids. I believe there is a lot of anchient info thats hidden from us...if they changed the age of the sphinx they'd have to re-write history which means all those people with PHD's wouldnt hold a valid degree anymore. So on that basis the truth will NEVER come out. I have taken the liberty in posting some info from this page here.

In 1993, NBC in the USA aired The Mysteries of the Sphinx, which presented geological evidence showing that the Sphinx was at least twice as old (9,000 years) as Egyptologists claimed. It has become well known as the "water erosion controversy". An examination of the politicking that Egyptologists deployed to combat this undermining of their turf is instructive.

Self-taught Egyptologist John Anthony West brought the water erosion issue to the attention of geologist Dr Robert Schoch. They went to Egypt and launched an intensive on-site investigation. After thoroughly studying the Sphinx first hand, the geologist came to share West's preliminary conclusion and they announced their findings.

Dr Zahi Hawass, the Giza Monuments chief, wasted no time in firing a barrage of public criticism at the pair. Renowned Egyptologist Dr Mark Lehner, who is regarded as the world's foremost expert on the Sphinx, joined his attack. He charged West and Schoch with being "ignorant and insensitive". That was a curious accusation which took the matter off the professional level and put the whole affair on a personal plane. It did not address the facts or issues at all and it was highly unscientific.

But we must note the standard tactic of discrediting anyone who dares to call the accepted theories into question. Shifting the focus away from the issues and "personalizing" the debate is a highly effective strategy--one which is often used by politicians who feel insecure about their positions. Hawass and Lehner invoked their untouchable status and presumed authority. (One would think that a geologist's assessment would hold more weight on this particular point.)

A short time later, Schoch, Hawass and Lehner were invited to debate the issue at the American Association for the Advancement of Science. West was not allowed to participate because he lacked the required credentials.

This points to a questionable assumption that is part of the establishment's arsenal: only degreed scientists can practice science. Two filters keep the uncredentialled, independent researcher out of the loop: (1) credentials, and (2) peer review. You do not get to number two unless you have number one.

Science is a method that anyone can learn and apply. It does not require a degree to observe and record facts and think critically about them, especially in the non-technical social sciences. In a free and open society, science has to be a democratic process.

Be that as it may, West was barred. The elements of the debate have been batted back and forth since then without resolution. It is similar to the controversy over who built the Giza pyramids and how.

This brings up the issue of The Big Lie and how it has been promoted for generations in front of God and everyone. The controversy over how the Great Pyramid was constructed is one example. It could be easily settled if Egyptologists wanted to resolve the dispute. A simple test could be designed and arranged by impartial engineers that would either prove or disprove their longstanding disputed theory--that it was built using the primitive tools and methods of the day, circa 2500 BC.

Why hasn't this been done?

The answer is so obvious, it seems impossible: they know that the theory is bogus. Could a trained, highly educated scientist really believe that 2.3 million tons of stone, some blocks weighing 70 tons, could have been transported and lifted by primitive methods? That seems improbable, though they have no compunction against lying to the public, writing textbooks and defending this theory against alternative theories. However, we must note that they will not subject themselves to the bottom-line test.

We think it is incumbent upon any scientist to bear the burden of proof of his/her thesis; however, the social scientists who make these claims have never stood up to that kind of scrutiny. That is why we must suspect a conspiracy. No other scientific discipline would get away with bending the rules of science. All that Egyptologists have ever done is bat down alternative theories using underhanded tactics. It is time to insist that they prove their own proposals.

Why would scientists try to hide the truth and avoid any test of their hypothesis? Their motivations are equally transparent. If it can be proved that the Egyptians did not build the Great Pyramid in 2500 BC using primitive methods, or if the Sphinx can be dated to 9000 BC, the whole house of cards comes tumbling down. Orthodox views of cultural evolution are based upon a chronology of civilization having started in Sumeria no earlier than 4000 BC. The theory does not permit an advanced civilization to have existed prior to that time. End of discussion. Archaeology and history lose their meaning without a fixed timeline as a point of reference.

Since the theory of "cultural evolution" has been tied to Darwin's general theory of evolution, even more is at stake. Does this explain why facts, anomalies and enigmas are denied, suppressed and/or ignored? Yes, it does.

The biological sciences today are based on Darwinism.

So, Dr. Jones...err...I mean, Slayer69.
When are you going to publish a book so I have something to read on my kindle?

reply to post by stirling


Ok looking back thru the thread quickly at least one other person DID in fact mention the idea of people using the Sphinx for target practice - however, I don't think Napoleon had anything to do with the Turks did he? (I'm not claiming to be any kind of History / War buff at all)

Dont know if its been mentioned , but the turks shot the nose off of the sphinx with their cannon for fun i think.
So some of the wear is war......
Nobody mentioned the library of knowledge that edgar cayce prophesied would be between its paws....
Also, there is a fair amount of caves under the giza plateau that Zahi Hawass was supposed to see explored.....but havent heard any more.....great thread slay.....s

I also see that the idea of Edgar Cayce saying the "libary of knowledge would be between it's paws" was mentioned by this same person.

I have read about this recently myself somewhere, but I'd have to sit down and surf around the web again myself to find any documentation - if it's even still there.

Anyway, this so-called "library of knowledge" aka The Hall of Records, is surprisingly found in several other fairly recent things, such as the Stargate TV shows - where they are interacting with "Thor" who is a "grey alien" in the show, to things like the World of Warcraft believe it or not, which I'll admit, I was addicted to for about 2 years or so myself - but in the game, if you actually read thru the story line, it talks about the TItans and dwarves of Ironforge protecting all kinds of ancient relics etc - and this same "library of knowledge" is in the game as well. Makes me wonder what's really been going on out there. Either way, it really does make for a great story

en.wikipedia.org...(Stargate)

reply to post by celerygeneral

Nice post general. There are sphings allover the world. Here are some photos of an ancient place in Macedonia named Treskavec. Theres a monastery from XV century situated on megaliths but the place is much much older. Theres lots of pagan signs. So here are the pictures of the sphing and the coordinates so you can see it on google earth.
41°24′14.46″N 21°32′17.74″E
1.bp.blogspot.com...
4.bp.blogspot.com...

p.s They see it as a lion head which actually sais it all. Its a sphinx that was never turned into lion body/female face but was kept in the original form.

[img]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ZhIeVeOtL4I/S6xcvWdRNgI/AAAAAAAAALY/S7FqSQlZRvo/s1600/lion+afar.JPG[/img

]

reply to post by Time2Think


i had thought it was some idiots in WW2 that shot off the nose.

anyway..

napoleon would have been pissed off, he was a big fan of egypt.

they found the rosetta stone, also.

For what it's worth, after studying about Enoch for the last few years, I am convinced that He built the Pyramids. I am not sure about the Sphinx, as I agree with you. It is much older than the rest of the complex. Let me give you something to consider.

As you may already know, the person Thoth plays an important role in Egyptian history, as well as human history. Thoth is said to have given man all the disciplines of science. He was in direct contact with God and traveled back and forth with God. He was said to have lived 300 years. Enoch fits this description perfectly. If you read in the book of Jasher ch. 3, you discover that the description gets even clearer. If you read the book of Enoch 1, it gets even clearer. If you read Isaiah 19, you see that the pyramids are a monument to the Lord. I assume this is pre-flood. My contention is that Enoch locked information into the pyramids to preserve them from the floods. The water erosion on the Sphinx is explained in this way.

Now we get to the Greek version of Thoth. Hermes also fits the description of Enoch. The library of Alexandria was said to have 40 volumes of His works. The only one that survives is the Corpus Hermeticum. Oddly enough, it reads like the back knowledge of the Bible. Hermes was said to be three times great because He is thought to be three persons. Put two and two together and you see Enoch, Joseph and Moses are personified in Hermes. The Torah, book of Jasher and Enoch 1 all represent their story of how God worked through the history of mankind to bring man knowledge and development up to our present day and age.

Wouldn't it be interesting to find something in Egypt that wakes man up to the truth of all of this ancient knowledge? Isaiah 19, which is unfulfilled prophecy, suggests this very thing. It tells of a day when Egypt returns to true worship of the Lord.

Anyway, interesting to think about.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Having been an Egyptophile all My life, I have concluded that the Sphinx is 10-12 thousand years old and that it was built back when the region was more tropical in nature - yes, there seems to be evidence that the region was wetter until something like 7000 years ago (IIRC) - and the head was recarved sometime, about 3500 BC maybe...

Also, I suspect the temples were built at that time as well. This would explain all We see, I think.

EDIT to add: Great work, Slayer - as always!

The most plausible explanation for the weathering pattern on the Sphinx was put forth by John Anthony West. Along with noted geologist Robert Schoch, who was the first in his discipline to go on record about rain being the cause of the weathering, West brought NYPD Detective Frank Domingo, an expert in Forensic Art, to Egypt to study the facial characteristics of the statue.

Domingo agreed that the head had been recarved, and concluded that the original representation was of a black African woman. To my mind, looking at the lower part of the face, this theory is clearly a very viable one.

The thought is that the structure that became the Sphinx was once a yardang, which is a natural rock formation carved over long periods of time by the combination of wind abrasion, dust and sand.

The assertion that the head initially depicted a black African woman is no surprise, given the most recent discoveries pertaining to Ancient Egypt, which postulate that the civilization had a black African origin. Robert Bauval released a book earlier this year called "Black Genesis" in which he elaborates on this theory in depth.

The Sphinx was originally an African lion. The great flood (same one mentioned in the Bible: Noah's Ark etc) that wiped out many civilizations was responsible for the weathering and erosion of the giant statue. (Due to being submerged in water for a long period of time). After the flood, the reigning Pharaoh of that time ordered that the head be re-shaped to resemble his, hence why the head is smaller than the body and why the Sphinx is in that condition..

I always thought the sphinx originally had the head of a dog.

reply to post by SLAYER69


To what I recall, the Sphinx was carved out of the solid rock, the temple walls were built. Different materials.

When they decided to build the first pyramid, they didn't calculate if they were able to cut through the rock to the river. They couldn't. Thus the only imperfection in the pyramid complex is the mortuary canal, which is at an angle that shifts away from the bedrock of the sphinx. During this time, they pretty much said "ah, why not?" and decided to carve it into something. The next Pharaoh built the next pyramid, and some other dude built the smaller one next after him. After that, the Egyptian Empire collapsed. The complex is a testimony to the decreasing ability of the Egyptians to do such construction projects. And sadly, they never would be able to again. Even more sad, when the government rebuilt itself, it abandoned pyramid complexes all together as irrelevant. Probably the knowledge to do it was lost or they just found large temple complexes more interesting.

again nothing less than a quality post mate. To be perfectly honest i used to think the Sphinx was about 12000 year old roughly the same age or older than the great pyramid. Which i also believe is far older than people say it is. Only because academic timelines need to be adhered to. The erosion is in my opinion a dead giveaway of discrepancy (re carved head or not) as you pointed out the temple walls and the outer walls have different levels of wear and tear. A real noodle scratcher.

I believe the Sphinx was originally a statue of a Lion and was "restored" by the later Egyptians. I suspect it was made some time in the last Age of Leo, this Age was between 10,500 and 7,900 BC. The Zodiac symbol of Leo is a Lion.

The Grand Ages
Leo

reply to post by SLAYER69


Great post Slayer...

Totally agree with you on pretty much everything that you suggest.

In all of mankinds history, it's not unusual for a culture to rebuild on previous cities / temples etc, so your beliefs are totally plausable.

Thanks for the very intriguing post.

From what I've read, the reason the head is in better shape is that when the sphinx was carved, it was done so with a much bigger head. Somewhere in the vacinity of 2 1/2 times larger then the current one. What it was, I'm not sure, but it was speculated that it was that of a Lion. But when Khafra came to the site, the theory goes that the head was in such bad shape that a recarving was undertaken. Hence the size discrepency. Apparently, a re-dedication stila was placed on the site. this stila was discovered back in the 18th or 19th century, not sure of when, that stated that the work done on the platue was in fact a renovation and rededication. This was an accepted view on Khafra's involvment with Giza. It wasn't until the 20th century that this view shifted to the present belief that Khafra actually built the structures... As to what happened to the stila, it dissapeared.

Great thread as always Slayer, Starred and Flagged.

I agree with most people here that it's pretty obvious the Sphinx's head has been recarved at least once, probably 3 or 4 times. I would love to be able to go back in time and see the original, "Real" Face of the Sphinx.

Also to see how/when it and the pyramids were built. I think it's a mystery that might never be solved unfortunately.

But you bring up some good theories here as to why the Sphinx is probably older than previously thought.

I've always thought the Pyramids were older than what we are told as well. Never gave that much thought on the Sphinx's age as some already stated it's hard to date because of it being cut out of the rock. There aren't thing's like mortar joints and other things on the Pyramids that you can even try to carbon date.

Originally posted by quedup

I've always believed this - but it would mean they'd have to rewrite all the text books - I also wondered - Was the original head, that of a Cat/Lion ??? - It is currently out of proportion but if it had originally been a cat - look at it again. Many cat's have much smaller heads than their bodies.

The original head was that of a female.(Queen)

The Sphinx's body is not the body of a lion, but a dog.

I wonder if you can comment on this thought slayer -

i think the original head of the Sphinx was that of a female, with even length hair, parted in the center which would put it from the matriarchal period of history... the proportions then would be better and could pose a reasonable explanation as to why the pharaoh's decided to deface it and make it into a man.

I agree with many that the Sphinx may be roughly 10-12k years old, from quite a few books I read and documentaries I have watched.

I do believe Hawass has a good heart and cherishes the wonders there in Egypt, but I also believe he will not move from the status quo on the age of the wonders there. Because if he does he will be replaced for someone who will stay with the current understanding. He knows things do not match up. Why is it this area is so heavily guarded, and when someone truely wants to do some real experiments/exploration they are cut short and never allowed to return?

There was a technology in the past which is lost to us. People cutting/carving, granite/diorite, with copper and stone is not something that could be done and our past ancestors seem to have done some awesome work that puts many of today's engineers on their heels with their complexity.

I have never been to those wonders, but from what I have read Kufu's pyramid has a tunnel that extends a couple 100 years on a cloping grade which has barely 1" deviation. From engineers close to me they say they would expect that they would get roughly 3-4' deviation on something of that nature. When I tell them it is a tunnel in the pyramid they say,"nearly impossible!" Maybe they are lazy and telling me lies, but even master plumbers/pipe fitters say they would expect the same deviation of roughly 3-4'

The following is an excerpt from the book "The Ancient Secret of the Flower of Life" by Drunvalo Melchizedek


"While observing the Sphinx, Schwaller de Lubicz became especially interested in the tremendous wear on its surface. Toward the back of the Sphinx there are wear patterns that cut twelve feet deep into its surface, and this type of wear pattern is totally different from the patterns on other buildings in Egypt. The wear patterns on other buildings, supposedly built at the same time, are textured by sand and wind, which is consistent if the buildings are, as believed, around 4000 years old. But the wear patterns on the Sphinx look like they’ve been smoothed with water. According to mainstream thought, the Sphinx, the Great Pyramid and other associated buildings were built about 4500 years ago in the Fourth Dynasty under Cheops. When this discrepancy was brought up to Egyptian archaeologists, they refused to listen. This went on for about forty years. Other people noticed it, but the Egyptians simply would not admit the obvious. Then a man named John Anthony West became interested. He has written many books on Egypt, including Serpent in the Sky and a fine Egyptian guidebook. When he heard about the Sphinx dispute, he went to look for himself. He could see that the
wear was incredibly excessive and that it did look like water had caused the wear. He also found, like Schwaller de Lubicz, that he could not get the accredited archaeologists to listen to his beliefs about the Sphinx.
There’s a reason for this denial, I believe. Please understand, I am not trying to discredit a major religion. I am merely reporting. You see, there are around 5000 Egyptian archaeologists in the world, and they all pretty much agree with each other in most ways. This agreement has become a tradition. They make little changes, but not too many (and not too fast, either), and most agree on the age of the pyramids. All of these archaeologists are Muslim, with a few exceptions, and their holy book is the Koran. The Koran, in its traditional interpretation, says that creation began about 6000 years ago. So if a Muslim were to say that a building is 8000 years old, he would be disputing their bible. They cannot do that, they simply cannot, so they won’t even talk about it, won’t even discuss it. If you say that anything is more than 6000 years old, they will not agree. They will do anything to protect their belief, making sure that no one knows about any man-made objects that might be more than 6000 years old.

For instance, they’ve enclosed the pyramids of the First Dynasty, which are older than Saqqara, and built military fortifications around and within the walls so nobody can get to them. Why? Because they are older than or close to 6000 years. So John Anthony West stepped outside the Egyptian archaeology world and brought in an American geologist named Robert Schoch, who did a computer analysis that gave a totally different, scientific point of view. Lo and behold, beyond any doubt at all, the Sphinx does have water wear patterns—and in a desert that’s at least 7000 years old, it puts it well over the age of 6000 years.

On top of that, computers have calculated that it would take a minimum of 1000 years of continuous, torrential rains dumped on the Sphinx— nonstop for twenty-four hours a day—to cause that kind wear. This means the Sphinx has to be at least 8000 years old minimum. Because it’s not likely that it bucketed rain nonstop for 1000 years, they figured that it’s got to be at least 10- to 15,000 years old, maybe a lot older. When this evidence gets out to the world, it will be one of the most powerful revelations on this planet in a very, very long time. It’s going to have a bigger effect on the world’s view of itself than probably any other discovery. This evidence has not entered the schools or general knowledge yet, though it has gone all around the planet. It has been looked at and checked out and thought about and argued over, and in the end most scientists have agreed that it cannot be doubted.

So the age of the Sphinx has now been put back to at least 10,000 years, maybe 15,000 or a lot more, and it’s already changing the entire worldview of the people on the cutting edge of archaeology. You see, judging by everything we presently think we know, the oldest civilized people in the world were the Sumerians, and they go back to approximately 3800 B.C. Before that, conventional knowledge says there was nothing but hairy barbarians—no civilization at all anywhere on the whole planet.

But now we have something man-made and civilized that’s 10,000 to 15,000 years old. That changes everything!"