Ron Paul: Christ is a Man of Peace, not a Man of War

Thanks for a Christian politician to finally say that Christ is the "Prince of Peace" and not the prince of war. Ron Paul talks Christian Just War theory and his own spiritual beliefs. Great and inspiring video

Nice video, he seems like such a genuine guy, you cant help but like him. Does he have any chance in 2012. I know he has a lot of support here on ATS, but how does that reflect on a national level? The other Republican candidates all look a bit kooky from here over the pond.

As I have said on another thread, I'm sure if Jesus did return he would be aghast at the actions of many of those who claim to be his most loyal followers

reply to post by filosophia


Christ came to deliver a message of love of others. God is one of the others. Love your neighbor as yourself speaks volumes to our current society. In Luke 10, we are told that our neighbor is even our enemy. The Samaritan was enemies of the Jew, yet the enemy is the one who comes to the rescue when the the wounded Hebrew's own people pass him by on the path. This is our example.

Pride is the opposite and can only manafest in self-love. What's in it for me instead of what's in it for the many.

Why do we see such misery in the world today? If God is good, why doesn't He just come down and take care of evil? He will not do anything for us that we can't already do for ourselves. Love is the key.

As my signature says, the flaming sword that protects the tree of life is bias. Remove bias and the tree opens to salvation. The key to the door is love. The narrow way is not the church and it is not the spiritual movement; not the esoteric and not the exoteric. Truth is found in the middle between materialism and inner strength through faith. It is an individual matter.

Matthew 7:13
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.

Seek ye first the Kingdom of God, and all these things shall be added unto you.

LINK to more on this idea of the narrow path to freedom and justice.

Ron Paul knows this truth.

I came here expecting to be cringing sightly at another politician playing the religion card, and perhaps having to comment on the absurdity of making political decisions based on ancient texts, but, was very happily surprised!

Dr. Paul mentions the philosophy of peace and how it is an important part of Christian belief, but only in passing, and in more of a spiritual nature than any specific religious nature.

With this point, I happen to agree wholeheartedly, that any politician claiming to be of Christian faith, yet justifying war is either a hypocrite, a liar, or both.

The other very crucial point (to me anyhow) Dr. Paul brings up in his speech is that of "Freedom vs. Tyranny". This, along with "Wealth vs. the rest", for me are the crucial battles ongoing in the world.

I truly believe that the political system which attempted to hand the influence away from the ancient aristocracies and oligarchies on to the general population (i.e. true democracy) has quickly been targeted by these old power structures.
Institutions such as central banks, political parties (with the electoral college system) and even the "justice" system have been put in place to ensure that the status quo, that has existed for centuries and ensured that a select few control and/or influence the wealth and power of the many, does not change.

My optimistic side tells me that someone with the apparent "anti-status quo" stance like Dr. Paul is what is needed to attempt to bring back the ideal of true democracy, yet my cynical side believes that the select few who benefit from the status quo being the way it is would never let that happen, and are willing to use whatever means necessary to ensure that it won't.

the Billmeister

But in the video Ron Paul somehow against social welfare. He said that it's dividing the US. Errr, I don't think a real christian will say something like that. Christian won't say social welfare divide people. That's a horrible things to say. It sounds like he's making excuses about it. This is just pandering.

reply to post by woodwardjnr


How likely is a snowball to survive forty minutes in an oven that has been preheated and set to 204.44 °C?

Originally posted by Jazzyguy
Christian won't say social welfare divide people.

And what do you base that off of? I'm a Christian and I agree 110% with Ron Paul. Also, just for future reference, Ron Paul doesn't pander, to anyone. He tells it like it is and shares his thoughts/opinions on matters and leaves everyone else to decide if they like it or not.

Ron Paul is the exception to the rule that, "There are no honest politicians".

If you carefully examine your view toward religion, you may come to realize that there is no third side to truth. Not to step on you in any way, but I think this is an excellent example of clearly seeing both sides of belief in God and skepticism. The fruit of our choices will always reflect our character. The Bible is the apex of this moral truth. Is this proof of God in our world? Believers and skeptics alike can find this love, as you clearly show in your post. Love is not the sole possession of the believer.

On the other side of this, we see the results of what the Bible calls pride. Pride can only serve self and not others. Can an atheist serve others in love? yes. Can this be separated form the truth in the Bible? no

Since we are under a veil keeping us from seeing God in material form, it can never be fact, but faith. What is fact, however, is the division between the world and the Biblical truth. The Bible is 100% reliable in its message of love for others. God is one of the others. We cannot separate Him from the truth found in His book. He can stand on His own against our disbelief. We can only stand with God in this love if we come to see that He is the author of this faith. Faith, hope and love is the truth that can be believed. This can only lead a person one direction--God. Faith is demonstrated in this one thing. The other side of this is stealing, killing and destroying. God can only honor, defend and protect those who love Him by loving others. We cannot love one without the other.

Now a person needs to ask a question? Which side do I stand on if I stand for love but do not give credit for the one delivering the message of love? If we love God for giving us this message, then we stand for Him and His truth. If we give credit to ourselves for knowing the message apart form the example given by God, then we are attributing this truth to ourselves in pride.

Why would I bother to present this message? To find salvation from this world, we must love others. God is included in the others. Apart from love for all, including our enemies, we do not love anyone but ourselves. Love is humble toward God and not proud against Him. If we do not agree with God, then we still embrace Him in love until we meet face to face. He will not let us down. 1 Corinthians 13 is our example:

1 Corinthians 13

1 If I speak in the tongues[a] of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

Originally posted by Billmeister
I came here expecting to be cringing sightly at another politician playing the religion card, and perhaps having to comment on the absurdity of making political decisions based on ancient texts, but, was very happily surprised!

Dr. Paul mentions the philosophy of peace and how it is an important part of Christian belief, but only in passing, and in more of a spiritual nature than any specific religious nature.

With this point, I happen to agree wholeheartedly, that any politician claiming to be of Christian faith, yet justifying war is either a hypocrite, a liar, or both.

The other very crucial point (to me anyhow) Dr. Paul brings up in his speech is that of "Freedom vs. Tyranny". This, along with "Wealth vs. the rest", for me are the crucial battles ongoing in the world.

I truly believe that the political system which attempted to hand the influence away from the ancient aristocracies and oligarchies on to the general population (i.e. true democracy) has quickly been targeted by these old power structures.
Institutions such as central banks, political parties (with the electoral college system) and even the "justice" system have been put in place to ensure that the status quo, that has existed for centuries and ensured that a select few control and/or influence the wealth and power of the many, does not change.

My optimistic side tells me that someone with the apparent "anti-status quo" stance like Dr. Paul is what is needed to attempt to bring back the ideal of true democracy, yet my cynical side believes that the select few who benefit from the status quo being the way it is would never let that happen, and are willing to use whatever means necessary to ensure that it won't.

the Billmeister

Originally posted by Jazzyguy
But in the video Ron Paul somehow against social welfare. He said that it's dividing the US. Errr, I don't think a real christian will say something like that. Christian won't say social welfare divide people. That's a horrible things to say. It sounds like he's making excuses about it. This is just pandering.

The country was founded upon Christianity and Capitalism, not Socialism so he is in line when it comes to Christian values along with social values. Medicare by itself would do nothing if every doctor in the country quit. Capitalism is the real social justice the world deserves, not socialism.

Jesus: "Do not think that I came to bring peace on Earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." Matthew 10:34

But, of course, he didn't really mean that! It's out of context. It's a parable. Etc.

Ron Paul is as crooked as the rest of them. Amazing that so many people drink his kool-aid.

I think it is clear that the sword He speaks of is against those who steal, kill and destroy. The leaders of this world who embrace Humanism will quickly find themselves at the end of this sword. The sword is not a weapon of material means. It is the sword of love. The flaming sword of the garden of Eden protects the tree of life. This is hatred and bias and pride. The sword of truth is love. Which do you see winning in the end?

Originally posted by Balkan
Jesus: "Do not think that I came to bring peace on Earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." Matthew 10:34

But, of course, he didn't really mean that! It's out of context. It's a parable. Etc.

Ron Paul is as crooked as the rest of them. Amazing that so many people drink his kool-aid.

edit on 11-7-2011 by Balkan because: (no reason given)

If Ron Paul becomes the president, what policy that he has, when it comes to taking care of the poor.

Either you are a christian or you are not!!! Either you are willing to take care of the poor or just going to let capitalism or the market forces take care of the poor, which they don't.

reply to post by SuperiorEd


I really do not want to take this on too much of a tangent from the original post, and Ron Paul's views that the country would be extremely successful, and admired around the world, if it chose to act with the moral high ground that is expressed in the New Testament through the words of Jesus Christ. A view that I definitely agree with... one can influence behavior and opinion much more effectively with the carrot than the stick!

My own personal stance is that religion and/or spirituality are not essential elements to individuals living and acting in a proper moral/ethical way. (And yes, I understand that both moral and ethics are culturally subjective, however, the "main line" exists in all cultures... basically "Do onto others as you would have them do onto you.")

And furthermore, I am convinced that the God and prophet of the New Testament do not care whether or not people insist on assigning the particular label of "Christian" (or any other denomination) to themselves, or whether or not they congregate in a specific building on a specific day, but would care only in the actual manner in which people lived their lives.

Now, I have been very specific in referencing the New Testament, as I believe the actions ascribed to the God of the Old Testament COULD be used to justify war and/or mass killings, which I consider to be morally reprehensible.

Again, I apologize if this is taking the OP too far off course.

the Billmeister

Originally posted by Balkan
Jesus: "Do not think that I came to bring peace on Earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." Matthew 10:34

But, of course, he didn't really mean that! It's out of context. It's a parable. Etc.

Ron Paul is as crooked as the rest of them. Amazing that so many people drink his kool-aid.

edit on 11-7-2011 by Balkan because: (no reason given)

The only time Jesus used physical force was to throw the money changers out of the temple, I think the sword reference is in relationship to that. Jesus also says:
“‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

An Atheist can love his neighbor. The point is not love for people. Anyone can do that. It takes true conviction to love God as one of those others we claim to care about. It takes true conviction to love an enemy, even if that perceived enemy is God. I know you realize this, but love demands that we are all in this together, even with those we see as enemies. We are all blind men trying to describe fire. All of us will face the truth of God in the coming years together as one people. God is faithful to show us the way. Love covers a multitude of sins, even for the person who is confused about truth. God will open their eyes in time. If they still refuse the truth, then they make the choice.

Matthew 5:

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Originally posted by Jazzyguy
If Ron Paul becomes the president, what policy that he has, when it comes to taking care of the poor.

Either you are a christian or you are not!!! Either you are willing to take care of the poor or just going to let capitalism or the market forces take care of the poor, which they don't.

Originally posted by Jazzyguy
If Ron Paul becomes the president, what policy that he has, when it comes to taking care of the poor.

Either you are a christian or you are not!!! Either you are willing to take care of the poor or just going to let capitalism or the market forces take care of the poor, which they don't.

That's fine if you feel that way but that's not the way the country was founded. People traveled to America to escape religious persecution which was "for their own good" just like socialized medicare and social security. Christianity is "treating others the way you would like to be treated" so to treat others the way you would like to be treated is not the basis of socialism, where the politicians and rule makers OPT OUT of the health care they force upon the public, that is anti-Christian. Only true free market capitalism treats others with respect and the way you would like to be treated because it does not get special privileges from the government. The very phrase "special treatment" means there is some group that is not-so-special.

So true. As Ron Paul points out in another video, we have walked away form Free Market Capitalism for Corporatist policies. LINK

A corporation can only seek what is best for selfish interests. Free Market Capitalism puts the profit to the best product and company, not the one with the most power and influence. Again, influence pads the pocket instead of rewarding the effort. This is again an issue of selfish pride and greed. The biblical truth shines in these instances. Virtue or vice is the ultimate defining factor. Loving God requires honoring others. Loving self takes and cannot give.

Corporations were first required to have a charter in this country. They had to demonstrate that they were out for the good of the public and their employees. Nor so much anymore.

Originally posted by filosophia

Originally posted by Jazzyguy
If Ron Paul becomes the president, what policy that he has, when it comes to taking care of the poor.

Either you are a christian or you are not!!! Either you are willing to take care of the poor or just going to let capitalism or the market forces take care of the poor, which they don't.

That's fine if you feel that way but that's not the way the country was founded. People traveled to America to escape religious persecution which was "for their own good" just like socialized medicare and social security. Christianity is "treating others the way you would like to be treated" so to treat others the way you would like to be treated is not the basis of socialism, where the politicians and rule makers OPT OUT of the health care they force upon the public, that is anti-Christian. Only true free market capitalism treats others with respect and the way you would like to be treated because it does not get special privileges from the government. The very phrase "special treatment" means there is some group that is not-so-special.

edit on 11-7-2011 by filosophia because: (no reason given)

reply to post by SuperiorEd

So, the bottom line is you don't think free market capitalism is compatible with what christianity is all about?

I also need to ask you this. Do you believe in eternal damnation? Isn't hell in the bible, or do you think it's a misconception?

Originally posted by SuperiorEd
A corporation can only seek what is best for selfish interests. Free Market Capitalism puts the profit to the best product and company,

Thank you for clearly stating the difference between corporatism and capitalism, the country would benefit if people understood this key difference.

There is no question that Ron Paul is a fantastic candidate. Thank you for sharing the viewpoint. I originally took your earlier comments as slanted against faith so I apologize for the biblical enema. We are on the same page here. It's nice to see a candidate stand up for virtue and truth. It seems to be rare these days.

Originally posted by Billmeister
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

I really do not want to take this on too much of a tangent from the original post, and Ron Paul's views that the country would be extremely successful, and admired around the world, if it chose to act with the moral high ground that is expressed in the New Testament through the words of Jesus Christ. A view that I definitely agree with... one can influence behavior and opinion much more effectively with the carrot than the stick!

My own personal stance is that religion and/or spirituality are not essential elements to individuals living and acting in a proper moral/ethical way. (And yes, I understand that both moral and ethics are culturally subjective, however, the "main line" exists in all cultures... basically "Do onto others as you would have them do onto you.")

And furthermore, I am convinced that the God and prophet of the New Testament do not care whether or not people insist on assigning the particular label of "Christian" (or any other denomination) to themselves, or whether or not they congregate in a specific building on a specific day, but would care only in the actual manner in which people lived their lives.

Now, I have been very specific in referencing the New Testament, as I believe the actions ascribed to the God of the Old Testament COULD be used to justify war and/or mass killings, which I consider to be morally reprehensible.

Again, I apologize if this is taking the OP too far off course.

the Billmeister