EU calls emergency meeting over debt crisis! Big crash imminent?

reply to post by Subjective Truth


The hitler and mussolini gags hit hard. Worst case the situation could very well go there again.

If its all the fault of socialism why is Sweden not in the firing line? A country with an extensive social welfare system. Its because its not Socialism thats the problem. Its corruption and a system that requires the people in charge to continually buy popularity with little restraint on how, until now.

Irresponsible spending over protracted periods by governments is the problem, coupled with extensive corporate corruption everywhere.

If the government borrows and spends absurdly large amounts on your behalf for 40 years it doesn't matter whether the borrowed is squandered on bloated entitlement programs for the bottom (EU) or stolen by the already rich (US). The result is the same, the honest tax paying middle are left with a bill they cannot pay and wondering how they got there.

Incompetence and criminality will kill you whatever label it wears, and it probably has literally killed a lot of us. We just don't know we're dead yet.

reply to post by justwokeup


That's because Sweden can afford to be socialist. It has a small population while being very rich in minerals.ALL socialist countries depend on exporting. If you don't have anything that the world needs, then tough # *cough*Greece*cough*

reply to post by ren1999


It wasn't. Meaningless numbers. My 3rd world country grew 7% 1st quarter last year, did that lift millions out of poverty?

""Rich" people and corporations create jobs when they want to create new things. New things like new medicines, technologies, farming, etc....."

Inventors create new things!
Rich people only create jobs when the demand for products calls for more workers.

"The problem with today is that it is more profitable and more politically protected to be a government worker, lawyer, or financial pencil pusher. This is zero creation and innovation. The public and private world is ruled by debt."

It's more profitable to be a government worker? ..what? ..as opposed to a private CEO?

"What are all these new government hires going to do? Build a new bridge? Remember all those shovel ready jobs? Sorry but there is no project of great importance with the need of government workers unless it is for revenue generation for the government and bankers. A mission to mars or a new energy infrastructure will create new jobs but it provides zero revenue to the bankers."

What? U.S. bridges are in need of serious repair.
www.msnbc.msn.com...
need-repair/

PLEASE, PLEASE will some of you who wish to debate economics with me at least do a little bit of research or learn a little bit about economics before you post these weak arguments. I will not keep responding to such comments.

I don't know. What 3rd world country are you from?

Originally posted by OuttaTime
reply to post by TechUnique

 

Does anyone else find it coincidental and ironic that their emergency meeting is scheduled within 72 hours of our own US 'debt ceiling' crisis Obama and Boehner butted heads on this weekend? Seems to me the IMF is having some 'growing pains' at the moment.

edit on 10-7-2011 by OuttaTime because: (no reason given)

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I took out my money, from the bank and left just enough in to keep it active. I heard that in 2 weeks the SHTF and banks will close taking your cash with it. Whatever that means, anyways better to be safe than sorry. The gov't wants this ceiling rose, but this is only a temporary fix, the massive huge problem looms in the gov't attic, i fear THE MONSTER, will get out before or just after this christmas when the FIX runs out of time. My question is, after the fix, ARE they going to reopen the banks?

reply to post by eldard


No, the reason greece is in the poo is the same reason the USA is bankrupt. Excessive borrowing and spending.

If Greece had said 'screw the old and the poor' and ploughed all that borrowed cash into a massive greek military equipment purchase, trident subs, B2s, F35, Satellites, Super-carriers, the result would have been the same.

As long as debt isn't allowed to become overwhelming you can have welfare if thats your national priority. The important point is you must prioritise. If you are a small economy you will have less to spend and a lower living standard. The problem comes when politcos borrow beyond the countries means to inflate their living standard on a par with with nations that are truly wealthier.

"No, the reason greece is in the poo is the same reason the USA is bankrupt. Excessive borrowing and spending."

You mean the U.S. is in a recession because people were living high on their credit cards?
Absolutely wrong. People maxed out their credit cards to pay for basic things such as food and gas after they lost their high payed jobs to outsourcing and had to get $9 to $13 per hour jobs. It is also the same reason they walked away from their homes. They couldn't pay their home loan because they don't make enough money anymore. Or they're unemployed.

Greece is in trouble because their government keeps stealing money. Greeks also only work about 4 hours a day.

If governments lower spending during a recession it means the government isn't creating jobs with their spending. That raises unemployment which is exactly what makes economic recessions worse.

reply to post by ren1999


I disagree but I wont labour the point anymore after this post.

The problem is governments spending to exceed their tax revenue by massive amounts consistently, to the point where they are unable to service the accumulated debt.

If tax revenue is (x) and expenditure (y)=x*2 then it really doesn't matter whether you are as a nation hardworking and tax paying or tax avoiding bums. You will eventually end up in the same place.

Everything else is a minor factor. If governments did not run deficits this situation could not occur. They can get away with this because the average joe does not understand the difference between a deficit and a debt. Nor do they realise how much of the wealth/effort of a nation goes on making interest payments.

Originally posted by ren1999
If governments lower spending during a recession it means the government isn't creating jobs with their spending. That raises unemployment which is exactly what makes economic recessions worse.

For governments to spend, they have only two sources of income: taxes and...borrowing. Infinite loop.

Originally posted by eldard

Originally posted by ren1999
If governments lower spending during a recession it means the government isn't creating jobs with their spending. That raises unemployment which is exactly what makes economic recessions worse.

For governments to spend, they have only two sources of income: taxes and...borrowing. Infinite loop.

I would add a third

steal some other nations wealth and spend that

The way I see it, it makes more sense for them to crash it large because those at the top will emerge with more power. Essentially you are looking at grand theft middle class on a world wide scale. They know exactly what they are doing and you're going to wake up in a new world just like they have been saying for decades now. I could also throw in that technological means to control (people) are getting better and better as well at the same time the food sources are being claimed by mega corps.

Honestly if you break down all the little things and look at it in the big picture you will see CLEARLY. Most if not all the steps are being made now are power plays for world dominance, it's an economic world war and we are all soldiers here. You lend your power when you go to work, pay taxes and give them a vote, revolution starts with ceasing the former but needs fed (literally). XYZ Foods will not feed your revolution

Do you know the difference between deficit and debt?

Here's my answer.

Debt is important because it is the amount of money a government borrows from itself or another country.
You can print all the funny money you want to keep the government going but eventually the value of your currency will go down in the eyes of other countries and nobody will invest in your country.

The only thing that is going to support government printed money is real labor. Putting people to work, even if they are just picking up trash, creates real value, real trust and real wealth of a country in the eyes of other countries.

Deficit doesn't matter at all. It is just a symptom of debt. Deficit is when a person from another country buys land in your country or assets in your country because a person from your country can't afford it.

The answer is to create jobs so that the funny money that government prints gains real value.

Cutting government spending is absolutely not the answer.

But I've seen the future and the U.S. is done. It can't be saved no matter what anyone does. The world has lost trust in U.S. investment. You can thank Republicans and U.S. rich for not creating jobs but rather outsourcing them.

reply to post by ren1999


A debt is an absolute, an amount owed at a point in time.

A deficit is effectively the increase of that debt within a defined time period.

The language spoken by politicians is designed to confuse and befuddle. They talk about deficit reduction for example. Halving the deficit is simply halving the rate at which you continue slide further into debt. To reduce the debt you have to run a surplus and use that surplus to down-pay debt as opposed to rewarding the special interests of your choice.

When was the last time the USA reduced the national debt? The national debt has been increasing steadily since the 1940s.

I explained what a trade deficit was without explaining the other type of deficit to see if you would notice.

There are two; a budget deficit and a trade deficit.

A budget deficit happens when revenue (taxes) that the government collects is less than government spending (creating jobs).

reply to post by ren1999


And pray tell, what kind of jobs? Ditch-digging? Shoveling? The New Deal did not work. It improved things but only ever so slightly.

reply to post by ren1999


Exactly, and in the context of what we are talking about its the budget deficit that is relevant.

Every time you run a budget deficit you increase the national indebtedness because the shortfall is closed by borrowing. If you are dumb enough, for long enough, you end up with a 14 trillion dollar debt.

My point is valid. To get here has required stupidity on both sides of the political spectrum and at this point neither has a solution that doesn't require massive social upheaval and misery.