Quantum Atheism and the Destruction of Scientific Exploration

I think what I call Quantum Atheist has set science back 50 to 100 years. We would be further along in some of these areas if science was about exploration instead of obfuscation.

This is an interesting story because science and spirituality started off as intertwined. The Magi were essentially spiritual scientist or you look at people like Pythagoras. Then came Darwin and people before him who created this gulf between spirituality and science and this persisted for many years. Those in science knew they had the answers because of Newton's works and people like Darwin. Then came.....

Quantum Mechanics

This changed everything and the Quantum Atheist was born. You also had what I call Quantum Spiritualist. Now, there's nothing wrong with Quantum Spiritualist. I happen to be one myself. I see Spirituality in things like Non Locality and Entanglement.

There's nothing wrong with this. The problem occurs when Quantum Atheist who say they don't fully understand quantum mechanics on one hand then turn around and say that Quantum Spiritualist are wrong. If you don't fully understand it, how can you say they're wrong?

This is where science gets hurt.

Quantum Mechanics tells us that consciousness. plays a role in what we call reality. This shocked the scientific community because how could consciousness play a role when we're just animals that happen to be conscious. Humans are nothing special and consciousness is nothing special.

This was the thinking and to then say the observer collapses the wave function was sacrilege. Our conscious choice should be meaningless but the double slit experiment, delayed choice experiment, delayed choice quantum eraser and this recent experiment below says that conscious choice plays a role in what we call reality.

www.newscientist.com...

So what you will hear is that quantum mechanics is incomplete as long as it says conscious choice plays a role in reality. Instead science should be building theories and testing theories that view consciousness as a fundamental part of reality and then accepting the evidence wherever it leads. I'm glad to see some people like Robert Lanza and others doing this but there needs to be a lot more.

Science is supposed to be about exploration but instead it's about exclusion. It starts off by saying the answer has to be x and it can't be y or z. With x being materialism and y and z being anything that can be interpreted as being spiritual.

In the world of quantum mechanics, are they not both right and both wrong?

Originally posted by rlnochance
In the world of quantum mechanics, are they not both right and both wrong?

They would be both right and both wrong at the same time. Like Yogi Berra said, "If you come to a fork in the road, take it."

reply to post by Matrix Rising


Personally I "believe in" what I call the quantum cosmological gnostic Christ. From an evolutionary perspective, and in alignment with modern physics, it makes a whole lot more sense than the vaccuous and nihilistic atheist POV, while at the same time challening us to become the fullest expression of who we really are and what we represent as human beings in the grand scheme of things.

reply to post by Matrix Rising

This changed everything and the Quantum Atheist was born. You also had what I call Quantum Spiritualist. Now, there's nothing wrong with Quantum Spiritualist. I happen to be one myself. I see Spirituality in things like Non Locality and Entanglement.

I agree with you but I take exception at the atheist term. Just me personally but I have had enough of being labelled as an atheist every time I question Christian values & The Bible.

Quantum mechanics seems to me to be a way to unify spiritual and physical.

When I see or experience something that I cannot explain in a scientific context, I often ponder how it might be explained in a quantum sense.

For example. Thinking about something (for no good reason) right before it happens. Thinking of someone right before the phone rings. Daily premonitions that defy logic, yet come true.

Educated as a mechanical engineer, I try to weed out logical explanations first, but, there are many things that I shouldn't/couldn't know.

However if you take into account quantum mechanics and factor the possibility that we are all connected on a deeper level. Entanglement could explain a lot (maybe all) of the premonitions that humans seem to have on a regular basis.

But, then again, it could be that my perception is clouding my judgement.

reply to post by Matrix Rising


Matrix this is EXCITING!!! Great article and with growing knowledge we evolve ever so close to the truth which in a way changes as we continue to educate ourselves and theorize. Great find and I look forward to reading more on the subject. The comments section was a good read too.

So lets see how this plays out and maybe Einstein was wrong about Entanglement.

Time will tell.

Amen Brother !

Thank you for putting a name to my viewoint (at least I think it is my viewpoint lol), I agree that science is ignoring the anomolies, and only joining together what fits.

Science is so hellbent on everything being logical, and mathematical, they ignore choice, consiousness, and spontnaiety at their peril.

Quantum physics thus far is an incomplete understanding of reality, and I fear that unless they take conciousness a little more seriously, the anwsers will always ellude them.

I sae some documentary's recently which described how when professionals in various fields try to look at life as a computer system, i.e ecosystem, banking system, they discover that these systems fail, because there is always an undercurrent of inequality by nature, and it is not by definition logical.

Of course just to be clear, my belief is that consicousness resides in the quantum level, but I still am undecided as to whether God exsists, I tend to veer to side that God does not exsist, but I'm happy to keep an open mind.

S+F Great post

Originally posted by MamaJ
reply to post by Matrix Rising

 

So lets see how this plays out and maybe Einstein was wrong about Entanglement.

Bell's theorem (not theory) based upon the EPR (Einstein–Podolsky–Rosen) paradox PROVED Einstein wrong, and non-locality (action at a distance) correct.

One other thing, if you look at the videos and writings of a physicist called Amit Goswami who authored a book called "The Self Aware Universe", you will come to see and recognize that the choosing self, or the free person MUST also be a non-local phenomenon (existing outside of time and space) whereby only the choice itself collapses the wave of possibility/potentiality into a localized actuality or an apparently localized event/experience.

Thus, when consciousness is factored into the equation, and the view of God updated as synonymous with the Zero Point Field or Akashic Field, fully informed in eternity (everlasting life) while simultaneously limiting itself (him/herself, since God is also a person of sorts, being self aware) in intelligent subtraction from the absolute infinite potential (presumably to have a shared experience in mutuality) - we are able to understand and recognize (re cognize) the proclamation that man, as conscious, self aware being, is "made in the image of God" as being a statement of truth.

If we can wrap our head around it, or I should say allow our head to be wrapped in it, then we may come into an illuminated awareness and recognition of the most essential part of ourselves at the deepest level and know that we, our truest self, can never die and thus come into an inheritance prepared for us from before the very foundations of the earth ie: from a first/last cause of enfolded reality.

To clarify further, from an evolutionary perspective, the invisible, interior, intrinsic nature of things, is by many many MANY orders of magnitude greater by far than the outward, materialistic, sensory, first-impressioned POV, which is but the thinnest outer layer of the unfathomably deep "onion" of reality, and within us, the human being, exists, at least in potentia, the whole onion. It is in this way, that self knowledge equates to Gnosis or knowledge of God or the Godhead, given our position and where we stand within the context of the whole breadth and depth of an eternal cosmic evolutionary process.

We are not a mere "thing", as much of science (and atheism) would try to make of us, but a PROCESS, perhaps even the apex of an eternal cosmic evolutionary process of increasing orders of consciousness whereby "the last shall be first, and the first, last."

"Therefore, be of good CHEER, little ones, and do not let your hearts be troubled - for it (obviously) pleased the father (first father of creation) to SHARE his kingdom with ALL his children!"
~ JC paraphrased

"God made our spirit with wings to fly in the spacious firmament of love and freedom. How pitiful it would be then, if we were to lop off our wings by our own hand, and suffer ourselves to crawl like vermin upon the earth!"
~ Khalil Gibran

reply to post by NewAgeMan

For additional context and "grokking"..

Originally posted by NewAgeMan

"The God Theory" by Bernard Haisch
www.amazon.com...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1249274834&sr=8-1

Haisch is an astrophysicist whose professional positions include Staff Scientist at the Lockheed Martin Solar and Astrophysics Laboratory, Deputy Director for the Center for Extreme Ultraviolet Astrophysics at the University of California, Berkeley, and Visiting Fellow at the Max-Planck Institute for Extraterrestrial Physics in Garching, Germany. His work has led to close involvement with NASA; he is the author of over 130 scientific papers; and was the Scientific Editor of the Astrophysical Journal for nine years, as well as the editor in chief of the Journal of Scientific Exploration.

an excerpt

If you think of whitte light as a metaphor of infinite, formless potential, the colors on a slide or frame of film become a structured reality grounded in the polarity that comes about through intelligent subtraction from that absolute formless potential. It results from the limitation of the unlimited. I contend that this metaphor provides a comprehensible theory for the creation of a manifest reality (our universe) from the selective limitation of infinite potential (God)...
If there exists an absolute realm that consists of infinite potential out of which a created realm of polarity emerges, is there any sensible reason not to call this "God"? Or to put it frankly, if the absolute is not God, what is it? For our purposes here, I will indentify the Absolute with God. More precisely I will call the Absolute the Godhead. Applying this new terminology to the optics analogy, we can conclude that our physical universe comes about when the Godhead selectively limits itself, taking on the role of Creator and manifesting a realm of space and time and, within that realm, filtering out some of its own infinite potential...
Viewed this way, the process of creation is the exact opposite of making something out of nothing. It is, on the contrary, a filtering process that makes something out of everything. Creation is not capricious or random addition; it is intelligent and selective subtraction. The implications of this are profound.

If the Absolute is the Godhead, and if creation is the process by which the Godhead filters out parts of its own infinite potential to manifest a physical reality that supports experience, then the stuff that is left over, the residue of this process, is our physical universe, and ourselves included. We are nothing less than a part of that Godhead - quite literally.

Next, by Ervin Laszlo

Science and the Akashic Field, an Integral Theory of Everything, 2004
www.amazon.com...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1249275852&sr=8-1

And, his other seminal work
Science and the Reenchantment of the Cosmos: The Rise of the Integral Vision of Reality
www.amazon.com...=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1249275852&sr=8-6

Ervin Laszlo is considered one of the foremost thinkers and scientists of our age, perhaps the greatest mind since Einstein. His principal focus of research involves the Zero Point Field. He is the author of around seventy five books (his works having been translated into at least seventeen languages), and he has contributed to over 400 papers. Widely considered the father of systems philosophy and general evolution theory, he has worked as an advisor to the Director-General of the United Nations Educational, Scientific, and Cultural Organization. He was also nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize in both 2004 and 2005. A multidisciplinarian, Laszlo has straddled numerous fields, having worked at universities as a professor of philosophy, music, futures studies, systems science, peace studies, and evolutionary studies. He was a sucessful concert pianist until he was thirty eight.

In his view, the zero-point field (or the Akashic Field, as he calls it) is quite literally the "mind of God".

Naming Hal Puthoff, Roger Penrose, Fritz-Albert Popp, and a handful of others as "front line investigators", Laszlo quotes Puthoff who says of the new scientific paradigm:

[What] would emerge would be an increased understanding that all of us are immersed, both as living and physical beings, in an overall interpenetrating and interdependant field in ecological balance with the cosmos as a whole, and that even the boundary lines between the physical and "metaphysical" would dissolve into a unitary viewpoint of the universe as a fluid, changing, energetic/informational cosmological unity."

an excert from Science and the Akashic Field, an Integral Theory of Everything

Akasha (a . ka . sha) is a Sanskrit word meaning "ether": all-pervasive space. Originally signifying "radiation" or "brilliance", in Indian philosophy akasha was considered the first and most fundamental of the five elements - the others being vata (air), agni (fire), ap (water), and prithivi (earth). Akasha embraces the properties of all five elements: it is the womb from which everything we percieve with our senses has emerged and into which everything will ultimately re-descend. The Akashic Record (also called The Akashic Chronicle) is the enduring record of all that happens, and has ever happened, in space and time."

Laszlo's view of the history of the universe is of a series of universes that rise and fall, but are each "in-formed" by the existence of the previous one. In Laszlo's mind, the universe is becoming more and more in-formed, and within the physical universe, matter (which is the crystallization of intersecting pressure waves or an interference pattern moving through the zero-point field) is becoming increasing in-formed and evolving toward higher forms of consciousness and realization.

------------

According to James Oroc's experiences (Tryptamine Palace), when the ego is dissolved in consciousness through the temporary formation of a type of neurological "Bose Einstein Condensate", there is no real dilineation or distinction between individual consciousness and God-consciousness or the universal "akashic field" (Lazslo) aka Zero Point Field.

It is therefore an absolute tragedy of the very worst kind, what I think of as a devilish conspiracy of sorts, what a materialist monist atheism would seek to reduce us to, for no other reason it would seem than an anti-religious, contemptuous bias, prior to investigation, a surefire way to keep people in everlasting ignorance as to their true nature and relationship with God as the Absolute. What a tragedy, what a shame, what an OUTRAGE - imho.

"It is only a fool who says to himself in his own innermost heart of hearts (where God lives) 'there is no God'".

Originally posted by Matrix Rising
If you don't fully understand it, how can you say they're wrong?

The OP asked and answered his/her own question here.

Atheism, of ANY KIND, is largely due to a lack of understanding, followed by the frustration of being incapable of understanding.

I've likened most Atheist today to that of a lazy, cranky child.

Unable to understand, wanting mommy to do it for them, unwilling to learn, and finally throwing a tantrum in frustration.
.

It all boils down to the question of mind and consciousness as a secondary, epiphenomenon of matter within a materialist monist POV (matter is primary) vs., mind and consciousness as primary (monistic idealism) wherein matter is a manifestation of mind and consciousness or of Godmind as a first/last cause. In the latter case, the human being as a self reflective, consciously aware being, may be viewed, not as a thing, but as a phenomenon, made by consciousness for consciousness or as an expression of God, for the purpose of having a shared experience in mutuality ie: for the sake of love. So it's an issue of a loveless, impersonal universe, on the one hand, or an intimate, participative, co-creation wherein love itself is the cause or the M.O., the reason, and the purpose of life, or the meaning of life and thus the standard by which life is measured ie: life as a "Just Cause" or purposeful.

A Christian interpretation would suggest that this drive and impulse, as a unifying principal, must be, for the human being, rooted in a radical and transformative forgiveness, from the top of the tangled hierarchy of causation, all the way down (to be historically formative or generative ie: evolving). As an analogy, let us consider the unevolved, unenlightened human being mired in bondage to habitual ignorance (cosmic ignorance) aka "sin" where ignorance gives birth to wrongful action, as a grain of sand, and Christ or God-consciousness, as the liberation from cosmic ignorance, as the oyster in a cosmic clamshall for whom the grain is an irritant or a wound, which, willingly recieved (in spite of its irritating nature) is then processed over time, the life "juice" of the oyster secreted and then formed, layer upon layer, over time (as a "work in progress"), until the aggregation of the life juice (spirit) forms a precious pearl, which is then fit to adorn the "city gate" as a point of attraction for all who seek reunification and re-entry into the abode of light and eternal life that is our true inheritance, and in fact, our true and natural state of being as intended in the first place such that the final realization is not and cannot be an imposition upon the mind of man.

...or something like that...


I don't know about you dear atheist, but this is certainly something I do not wish to miss out on if I can help it.

"Our liberation is God's compulsion."
~ C.S. Lewis (converted atheist via nightly discussions with J.R.R. Tolkien famed author of "Lord of the Rings")

Good posts so far and it's sad that these things are being looked at with a blind eye in order to support a materialistic belief system.

Look at the double slit experiment. When photons are shot at 1 slit they behave like a particle. When you add a second slit they behave like a wave. What this tells us is when nature is presented with probabilities it doesn't make a choice. It's just a wave of probabilities until a conscious observer makes the choice to carry out a measurement.

This is what the double slit experiment, delayed choice, delayed choice quantum eraser tells us.

This is why quantum mechanics is labled incomplete because if quantum mechanics extends into the classical world then it means nothing has an existence in what we call reality until a conscious observer makes a choice to measure it.

So far we're not seeing any hidden variable or hidden theory that separates the quantum from the classical. Scientist have put classical objects in a state of superposition.

What this tells us is there isn't any reality absent the choice of a conscious observer. This means consciousness had to make a choice to measure what we call "reality."

reply to post by Matrix Rising


From what I've been able to gather, the only resolution to the apparent quantum paradoxes is to posit the notion of a monistic idealism as per Goswami, which means to begin with the fundamental presupposition that consiousness, and not matter, is primary, and that in fact consciousness is the very ground of all being and becoming - not just our own consciousness, but cosmic consciousness if you will.

Then, when we look at these things, and ourselves, within an evolutionary framework, what do we find but a continual rise in you guessed it, consciousness.

Witin the context of life itself, if consciousness may be likened to spirit, then it's all spirit, and we are deluded by our materialistic POV into thinking in terms of separateness and of bits and pieces, of here and there, past and future.

Some might say that we cannot even do science from the POV of a monistic idealism, but Goswami has made a powerful argument that the new science can ONLY be performed within that contextual frame of reference, and that indeed if science is a pursuit of "the truth" then it might have to jetison it's old materialistic and atheistic ways to embrace a universal connecting principal of consciousness and even of spirit.