Random Neurons Firing .... Really?????????

This post is partly rant on my part, but also has an interesting psychological discussion to it.

I know many hold the view that all we are is our brains. In other words, the brains source consciousness and when the brain dies, consciousness comes to an end. Fine.

If you want to hold that view, so be it. But, what bothers me is something I keep seeing again and again in regards to NDEs, dreams, etc. It's people saying that NDEs, OBEs, dreams, and things along similar lines can be explained by RANDOM, I repeat, RANDOM, neuron firings.

Have you ever taken a signal, let's say a TV signal, composed of random 1s and 0s, and then looked at the result. You would get static on the screen - nada, zilch, zippo, nothing useful. The amazing content of an original series Star Trek show is not a signal filled with RANDOM information. It has ddetailed structure behind it, which encodes the information that makes up the show.

How can consciousness, which is infinitely more complex than a radio program or a TV show, be a result of RANDOM neuron firings, or random information. I got news for you - IT AINT!!

Anyhow, now the more philosophical part of this discusson. When we make a movie, which is the result of a structured data pattern, it requires an outside source for its creation, which happens to be humans. A movie cannot create its own data pattern, thereby structuring itself. NO KNOWN technological information source on the planet can do that all by itself from the get go. Sure computers write out to memory and hard disks information that they create all the time. BUT, where did the operating system come from that allows them to operate in the first place?

What element exists within us that brings about the NON-RANDOM neuron firings that produce consciousness? Can the brain completely source its own NON-RANDOM firings?

Or, is consciousness more than the brain, and is it the organizer of the patterns within the brain, which give rise to the non-random neuron firings?

Maybe, some food for thought here too:

well yes ofcourse, everything they dont understand is to them, random somehow... even their movement through the day. clearly it requires zero personal input.. yeah, sounds about right

"oh its random" is generaly the opinion of those who lay 70-100% of their emphasis on their left brain hemisphere :/

"oh its random" is just an excuse for not saying the word "magic"

reply to post by EthanT


In the words of C.S. Lewis:

"If the solar system was brought about by an accidental collision, then the appearance of organic life on this planet was also an accident, and the whole evolution of Man was an accident too. If so, then all our present thoughts are mere accidents -- the accidental by-product of the movement of atoms. And this holds for the thoughts of the materialists and astronomers as well as for anyone else’s. But if their thoughts -- i.e., of materialism and astronomy -- are merely accidental by-products, why should we believe them to be true? I see no reason for believing that one accident should be able to give me a correct account of all the other accidents. It’s like expecting that the accidental shape taken by the splash when you upset a milkjug should give you a correct account of how the jug was made and why it was upset."

Temporal lobe epilepsy would probably fall under this description. Symptoms include increased religiosity. People with this condition tend to excessively build their lines of thinking. Not necessarily a bad thing artists like Edgar Alan Poe and Vincent Van Gogh were afflicted with TLE. The disorder did prevent Poe from completing his schooling at West Point, it was reported he was much too mad a poet to excel at math.

saying its "random" is how some people avoid the dreaded admission that God exists... "the universe 'randomly' appeared from total absolute nothingness and arranged itself 'randomly' into what we now observe... life 'randomly' sprang from minerals and developed consciousness... we 'randomly' have infinitely complex personalities..." ....its a word for people to toss around so that they can feel like they have some sort of reigns on reality/existence
...that's what I think.

Yeah I have to say I have a real problem with us being defined as "totally biological" Personally if this were the case, then anwser me this....

How can a human have an original thought,

Generate art,

Debate their own exsistence, and its implications ???

Probably because conciousness IS something not entirely biological.

My current thinking is that perhaps we need to re-examine our understanding of how we define something as living, because the more I think about it, the more I think life on the quantum level is alive-alive-o, and holds consiouness.

I know a lot of you think me crazy But hey, can t be proven beyond any doubt ?

I can't wait for Stephen Hawkins book to come out next month, as I can see where the biological side of things can work, but I still believe its not the full story.

I think consciousness is shared by everyone. My consciousness is the same as your consciousness. But I don't think it is an all-permeating field, unless everything is conscious which may very well be the case.

Consciousness is consciousness regardless of who is conscious. My brain is not your brain, but my consciousness is as conscious as your consciousness. You see?

What I'm saying is, consciousness is constant. Brains are variable. If our brains were similar enough, I should be able to read your mind.

Just because your consciousness is over there, and mines over here is irrelevant. From the perspective of consciousness, there is no distance.

Consciousness as an entity is in many places at once. I am a human being as you are a human being, but you are where you are and I am where I am. If I looked exactly like you and had everything that is you in me, then we would be in two places at once. This is the way with consciousness. It is constant like this. It is in many places at once, and when you die, consciousness will still be here.

Exactly...the field of consciousness. We as individuals are just plugged into it. That is why they say our collective, directed and intentional emotions can affect this field. As our awareness of this evolves, we will be able to do amazing things. I believe we also need to work on flexing the right side of our brains, as this will help.

Originally posted by EthanT
Or, is consciousness more than the brain, and is it the organizer of the patterns within the brain, which give rise to the non-random neuron firings?

Consciousness creates the brain as it develops.

The brain synthesizes information, consciousness responds to this information, and the response reverberates back into the brain.