Christianity and what it has become

This is not going to be a thread to debate the legitimacy of the Bible or any religious text for that matter. I am writing this from a completely NEUTRAL viewpoint. I am not an atheist, and I was a Christian at one point. Again, I am not saying I don't believe in God. I'm saying I don't confirm nor deny anything religious related.

Now on to the point of this thread. This realization is not one of my own, but borrowed from my English teacher. I would often stay and talk to him on Friday's (he had no after school classes then). The one day however we got onto the subject of religion, and he was saying how the commercialization of Christianity always angered him. I thought about it after I got home and he was right. If it is the correct religion, why do we have to go out and purchase a bible? I'm sure some churches give them away, but for the most part you will need a buy one.

Not only that, but how can you market a religion? This is stands out as very wrong to me, and obviously my English teacher who lead me to this realization (keep in mind, he is a religious man...to my surprise). When you have websites such as these (just a few from a Google search):

- www.christianbook.com...
- www.c28.com... (at least they donate a portion of their profits to 1 of 3 ministries)

The discussions with my English teacher happened when school was still in progress. So it was many months ago. At that point in time I had no desire to create a thread about it because I felt it wouldn't be well received. Recently however, I noticed an infomercial for Miracle Spring Water. The first time I saw it, I paid very little attention to it. Barely a thought in the back of my mind. As I'm writing this thread though, I am paying close attention to it, although this is not exactly what I'm watching at the moment (3:35am EST) here's a video of what I'm talking about.



To be blunt, this makes me sick in a way. I know they claim it is free miracle spring water, but I'm sure they don't ship you it for free. As far as I can tell they don't tell you how it is shipped, I tried submitting random information just to see and they say they will get in touch with me soon. I have no interest in these people contacting me personally so I won't provide with them with my real information.

So how has Christianity gone from it's humble (and not so humble) roots, to this commercialized system. I would also like to know how they can justify claiming that some water in a small packet will pay someone's bills, and cure them of cancer. I am literally at a loss for words, maybe because of that really sleepy stupor. Maybe because stuff like this is actually truly sickening.

Thoughts? Did any of this make sense? Throwing together a thread for the first time at 3am is not very ideal I'll admit.

EDIT: If I stop responding, it may be due to the fact that I have fallen asleep. If that is the case I apologize, and I will try to respond in the afternoon when I wake up.

Reply to post by Indecent

IMO, you can thank the Roman Catholic church. It spawned everything … Catholicism, Protestantism, and all the flavors of mainstream Christianity.




Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
Reply to post by Indecent

 

IMO, you can thank the Roman Catholic church. It spawned everything … Catholicism, Protestantism, and all the flavors of mainstream Christianity.

 

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

 

I am not saying the problem is with Christianity per se, but rather these sick bastards making money off of individuals who do not always think for themselves. Don't we call that man-ip-u-la-tion?

reply to post by Lemon.Fresh


The Roman Catholic church 'spawned' Protestantism, you could say. In reality it was the English king who wanted a divorce that spawned Protestantism. And that spawned the other Christian religions of today. I wouldn't say Catholicism is the problem. They at least admit that creationism is a parable, that aliens are (possibly) real, that evolution exists, etc. And I know for a fact that the money I donate to my church is used to help those in need or fund other churches.

reply to post by Indecent


People who sell miracles are not Christians in my opinion. In fact they go against everything I believe to be the teachings of Christ.

To sell hope is not only distasteful; it’s immoral.

Alas, religion is as fallible as everything else on society. Open to the exploitative nature of a few greedy individuals who want to cash in.

reply to post by Indecent


Lets get Historical!

Karl Marx

The founder and primary theorist of Marxism, the nineteenth century German sociologist Karl Marx, had an ambivalent attitude to religion, viewing it primarily as "the opiate of the masses" that had been used by the ruling classes to give the working classes false hope for millennia, whilst at the same time recognizing it as a form of protest by the working classes against their poor economic conditions.[1]

After unleashing his views to the world, a lot of people who were paying probably almost all of their earnings to the church woke up a little and decided that their money should be spent else were!

What I am trying to get across here is that the church cannot compete with industry, our modern societal interests and mass influence from the media, so they try and appeal to people struggling in life or the working class ignorance.

I think we can all safely agree that such a thing is downright manipulative, greedy, and immoral. All I have to say further is: remember that it is not the religion that is doing these things, it is the misguided religious.

reply to post by Theoretician


The church shouldn't have to compete with any corporation. That's the point. Like open-source software, religion should be free without limitation, in all aspects. After all, it's all about leading a good life and showing people the Truth. Not taking advantage of people for profit.

EDIT: I need to sleep now sorry. I will respond to your replies tomorrow when I awake.

Originally posted by Indecent
reply to post by Theoretician

 

The church shouldn't have to compete with any corporation. That's the point. Like open-source software, religion should be free without limitation, in all aspects. After all, it's all about leading a good life and showing people the Truth. Not taking advantage of people for profit.

EDIT: I need to sleep now sorry. I will respond to your replies tomorrow when I awake.

edit on 7/7/11 by Indecent because: (no reason given)

Although I loath Religion... I agree with you that such a thing should be free to all as it teaches those who are misguided in life and helps many that are in distress. I was merely pointed out one of the many reasons behind commercialisation of religion.

reply to post by Indecent

Remember the only time Christ got extremely angry is when he saw the market places in the temple, saying they had made My Father's House a den of thieves. No doubt modern Christianity is twisted and warped and you get people like Joel Osteen. But really that's a judgement on the majority of these so-called believers. They want their ears tickled and it opens the door for greedy people to come in and turn it into a business. This is the fault of the modern lukewarm "Christians" who can't discern left from right. Aside from KJV bible, people will also retranslate the bible in their own words so they can get the copyright and make a lot of money, as they slyly omit certain verses of the Bible completely (especially the NIV). However your complaint about needing to spend like 8 bucks on a Bible is really strange, as a true believer would always want to know the Word of God. Overall you are right about how empty mainstream churches have become, especially in America. But if you really want to follow God, all you need is a KJV Bible and follow what it says, not what the rest of the world says, because the world, including most professing believers, do not follow The Word of God. And I promote the KJV because it is God's preserved Word for the English language.

Well, the problem is with christians themselves.

Here's what they believe; God impregnated a 14 year old girl so she could give birth to god so he could be sacrificed to himself to atone for the curse levied upon mankind by himself when the first woman ate a piece of fruit given to her by a talking snake. Of course he made the snake AND the fruit. Oh, and we're supposed to revile Judas and the Jews for killing god even though god's plan was to get killed all along, and he didn't really die anyway. He's been due back tomorrow for over two thousand years, at which pount, everyone i like will be taken away to heaven and everyone i dislike will be sent to hell, and we'll all get to laugh and point at those poor bastards for all eternity.

Of course, you're not allowed to doubt any of this; you have to accept everything on faith.

In other words? Christians are easy marks. If I hold up a stick and tell someone it is a relic of the Crown of Thorns, I will be able to sell it, probably for hundreds of dollars. Palestinians sell handfulls of dirt to christian tourists all the damn time. Basically you have a market full of people who will believe anything you tell them, and will buy one of whatever you're selling for themselves, plus a gift basket for all their friends if you sound sufficiently pious.

There's a sucker baptized every minute.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


I have always enjoyed your posts in the past, WalkingFox, but this time i feel that you have used a cheap argument.

You can use a sarcastic tone, while laying out peoples beliefs, and make any beliefs sound silly.

For example...

Hindus worship a flute playing child, who was shot in the foot by an arrow, and an Elephant that is the boss of Jupiter.

Native Amazon people believe in spirit words and ghosts that can be contacted by blowing powdered LCD up their noses.

Atheists believe that at the dawn of time there was a massive explosion that came from nothing. They also believe that time and light are connected because some old German bloke with silly hair told them that E=MC2. Most of them have no idea what E=MC2 means, they have never researched it, but they believe the old German bloke because everyone else does.


Every belief system requires leaps of faith... even science!

To mock others beliefs is arrogant and elitist in my opinion.

Peace

Making broad sweeping arguments about entire religions based on what some choose to do is a mistake in my humble opinion.

Sure there are those out there who wish to take advantage of others under the disguise of religion, but I don't believe they make up the majority at all. Of course if the only exposure to Christianity or any other religion you have is through televangelists and infomercials then you are going to get the wrong impression.

These people don't speak for Christianity...I don't believe anyone does. If you are a Christian then it is something between you and God alone.

There will always be someone who will exploit people for money, no matter what it is. Just because someone is on television preaching about God and Jesus does it mean they are a moral person.

Originally posted by nyk537
Making broad sweeping arguments about entire religions based on what some choose to do is a mistake in my humble opinion.

Sure there are those out there who wish to take advantage of others under the disguise of religion, but I don't believe they make up the majority at all. Of course if the only exposure to Christianity or any other religion you have is through televangelists and infomercials then you are going to get the wrong impression.

These people don't speak for Christianity...I don't believe anyone does. If you are a Christian then it is something between you and God alone.

I am speaking merely of these people, and how these "Christians" justify their actions. I have my own personal reasons for being on the fence with Christianity, and any religion for that matter.

reply to post by Muckster

Native Amazon people believe in spirit words and ghosts that can be contacted by blowing powdered LCD up their noses.

LOL i'm such a fool... i ment '___' not LCD. but its to late to edit my post... sorry people.

Can you imagine someone trying to snort a flat screen TV

Originally posted by Muckster
reply to post by Indecent

 

People who sell miracles are not Christians in my opinion. In fact they go against everything I believe to be the teachings of Christ.

To sell hope is not only distasteful; it’s immoral.

Alas, religion is as fallible as everything else on society. Open to the exploitative nature of a few greedy individuals who want to cash in.

I love how "Christians", when forced to acknowledge the bad behavior of other "Christians", immediately feel the need to qualify what kind of "Christian" THEY are...."Oh I'm not like them"... "they are not REAL Christians"...

HAH!!!

Everyone wants to be in the Mickey Mouse Club, but nobody wants to wear the ears...

Originally posted by Muckster
reply to post by TheWalkingFox

 

I have always enjoyed your posts in the past, WalkingFox, but this time i feel that you have used a cheap argument.

You can use a sarcastic tone, while laying out peoples beliefs, and make any beliefs sound silly.

Yup. However, does this mean that those beliefs are in fact not silly? Not at all! I just laid out the absolute core of Christianity; God knocks a girl up with himself so he can kill himself to lift a curse he put on mankind because a woman ate some fruit given to her by a vocal squamatid, which presumably did so under his direction. I can say it sarcastic, or I can say it reverently, it's still silly.

For example...

Hindus worship a flute playing child, who was shot in the foot by an arrow, and an Elephant that is the boss of Jupiter.

And it would still be silly if said by the most reverent hindu on the planet.

Native Amazon people believe in spirit words and ghosts that can be contacted by blowing powdered LCD up their noses.

Ayahuasca is pretty different from '___', but moot point. As an Indian, and someone who has practices shamanism for a good while, would it surprise you if I said I find these things to be rather silly as well? There is, of course a purpose behind it, but when it becomes "trust me, i have blowfish poison up my nose" it's pretty ridiculous.

Atheists believe that at the dawn of time there was a massive explosion that came from nothing. They also believe that time and light are connected because some old German bloke with silly hair told them that E=MC2. Most of them have no idea what E=MC2 means, they have never researched it, but they believe the old German bloke because everyone else does.

Well, unlike the other three cited so far, you actually give a bit of a misrepresentation amidst the sarcasm. Atheists don't believe that something came from nothing. They just don't know what, exactly, something came from. Big difference. Unlike those in the world who believe that the universe was created by a foreskin-hating dude in the sky, a big ol' duck egg, or the endless copulation of a six-armed woman and her elephant-headed lover, atheists actually say "Beats me."

Also, E=MC2 is demonstrable and repeatable. We're not talking about a woman turning into salt, a winged horse lifting a man into outer space, or a coyote creating all life with the miracle of masturbation into a clay pot, here. We're talking about observable and falsifiable fact there. And in fact, it does appear to be inapplicable in certain conditions, such as at the quantum level, which implies that Einstein, while not completely wrong, was also not completely correct. If this were a matter of faith, you'd have one cam - the Einsteinians I suppose - outright denying anything such as subatomic particles exist at all, that Einstein's word is absolutely true and unerrent. And on the other you'd have Hawkingers, who are calling for holy war against the pagan Einsteinians for their backwards, pagan beliefs in general relativity. Of course, this is not the case; what you actually have is a collaborative effort of physicists around the world all trying to prove both Darwin and Hawking wrong, in order to find a better answer to the question. This... absolutely never happens in religion.

Every belief system requires leaps of faith... even science!

Not really. See, science tells me that if i throw a rock upwards, it will form an arc determined by the angle of my toss, of a height determined by the force i apply, and that it will, at the termination of this arc, be at rest on the surface of the earth. I suppose that if i am a totally ignorant child who has never tossed anything before, it would be an article of faith. So I toss the rock, and it happens exactly as predicted. i keep tossing and tossing and tossing, and every time, the results are the same - I get an arc ofa certain height and end up with the rock on the ground. Every single time. By the millionth time, I am not taking a "leap of faith" when I toss that rock. i know what i'm going to get.

Religion, however, tells me that sometimes a magical being will grab the rock, hold it in midair, and then turn it into a cheesecake before returning it to my hands. How many times will I have to toss the rock before I get my cheesecake? "Just have faith that it will happen" religion tells me. Every time I toss my rocks, all I get are these darned predictable arcs and a pile of rocks on the ground, but no cheesecake, though.

To mock others beliefs is arrogant and elitist in my opinion.

Well, your opinion does not constitute fact. When these beliefs cause active harm to the people who hold them - such as is the case with my initial post on this thread, the religious mind being "primed" for con artists to move in and bilk the faithful - or when they cause harm to others around the believer (clitoridectomies, anyone?) then they need to be mocked, and the unfortunates saddled with htese self-destruyctive beliefs need to be taught better.

"Having faith" is simply the act of forcing yourself to remain ignorant in the face of contrary facts.

reply to post by Muckster


Let's just say that I know people who would give it their best effort if you told them it would give a buzz.

Once had a bunch of my druggy buddies walking around with gum wrappers stuck to their foreheads because i told them the bonding agent would cause a high.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


MY point is simple... be nice. Openly ridiculing people beliefs if just plain rude.

Ayahuasca is pretty different from '___', but moot point. As an Indian, and someone who has practices shamanism for a good while, would it surprise you if I said I find these things to be rather silly as well? There is, of course a purpose behind it, but when it becomes "trust me, i have blowfish poison up my nose" it's pretty ridiculous.

You may find shamanism silly now... but would you go back to the people you practiced these beliefs with and ridicule them in the same way you ridiculed Christianity?

I truly hope not. I hope that you would have the good manners and common decency to explain your "new beliefs" in a more diplomatic and respectful way.

Maybe it’s the internet. It seems to make it so much easier for people to be rude, especially when you can’t see the hurt in a man’s eyes.

Peace