Do-It-Yourself Impeachment

Given the current circumstances in our wonderful Federal Government, I wanted to see if there was a way that the average citizens, such as you and I, could push forward an impeachment process against all of the corrupt politicians.

There are loopholes everywhere, so were some of our past "leaders" smart enough to see what the future possibilities for corruption were and added a clause somewhere that we could use? It looks like Thomas Jefferson again comes to our rescue....

I'm not an "expert" in law, but this looks to be legitimate. It turns out that there is a little known part of what Congress uses in something called the "Jefferson Manual", which allows impeachment proceedings to be brought to the floor of Congress.

Jefferson's Manual is a sort of interpretive guide to parliamentary procedure, and is included (along with the Constitution) in the bound volumes of the Rules of the House of Representatives. It is ratified by each congress (including the current one), and has been updated continuously through the history of our democracy.

Within the Manual itself, the section covering impeachment is designated Section LIII. Section 603 refers to the section of the entire volume (including the Constitution and Rules) in which you'll find the listing of acceptable vehicles for bringing impeachment motions to the floor. The second vehicle being of most interest to our method. It reads:

"In the House of Representatives there are various methods of setting an impeachment in motion: by charges made on the floor on the responsibility of a Member or Delegate (II, 1303; III, 2342, 2400, 2469; VI, 525, 526, 528, 535, 536); by charges preferred by a memorial, which is usually referred to a committee for examination (III, 2364, 2491, 2494, 2496, 2499, 2515; VI, 552); or by a resolution dropped in the hopper by a Member and referred to a committee (April 15, 1970, p. 11941-2); by a message from the President (III, 2294, 2319; VI, 498); by charges transmitted from the legislature of a State (III, 2469) or Territory (III, 2487) or from a grand jury (III, 2488); or from facts developed and reported by an investigating committee of the House (III, 2399, 2444)."

While some of these words are no longer used in our everyday speech, here are the important bolded words above to understand:

Memorial: "a written statement of facts accompanying a petition presented to somebody in authority"

Preferred: "to make a charge against somebody by submitting details of the alleged offense to a court, magistrate, or judge for examination, or prosecute such a charge"
(from the Encarta® World English Dictionary)

Source

Original Source

Apparently, this has been used before to impeach a Supreme Court Justice named James H. Peck, that was appointed by James Monroe, although he was later acquitted, the impeachment process was used. In a land dispute with a man by the name of Luke Lawless, Peck had Lawless put in jail and his license to practice law taken away for 18 months, which resulted in Lawless bringing impeachment proceedings against Peck through the rules in Section 603 of the Jefferson Manual.

It worked, until the Senate acquitted him by 1 vote.

Source

You can find the real text of the Memorial from Luke Lawless HERE.

So while the impeachment didn't succeed, it demonstrated for 100% certainty, that if the rules are followed, a citizen can raise facts to the House to present an impeachment hearing. However, ANYONE in the House of Representatives can raise an issue from ANY state according to their governing rules, it doesn't have to be YOUR representative for your district. Based on the above definitions in the Jefferson Manual:

[110th Congress House Rules Manual -- House Document No. 108-241]

Petitions, memorials, and other papers addressed to the House may be presented by the Speaker as well as by a Member (IV, 3312). Petitions from the country at large are presented by the Speaker in the manner prescribed by the rule (III, 2030; IV, 3318; VII, 1025). A Member may present a petition from the people of a State other than his own (IV, 3315, 3316). The House itself may refer one portion of a petition to one committee and another portion to another committee (IV, 3359, 3360), but ordinarily the reference of a petition does not come before the House itself. A committee may receive a petition only through the House (IV, 4557).

Original Source

So if I'm understanding this all correctly, it basically means that ANY citizen can file for impeachment with ANY House of Representatives member, providing they have the facts, as specified by the word "Memorial" above, and that those facts are presented officially through the House using House Rules, Section 603:

"Jefferson's Manual" is an interpretive guide to parliamentary procedure, and is included (along with the Constitution) in the bound volumes of the Rules of the House of Representatives. It is ratified by each congress (including the current one), and has been updated continuously through the history of our democracy. The section covering impeachment lists the acceptable vehicles for bringing impeachment motions to the floor of the House.

Before the House Judiciary Committee can put together the Articles of Impeachment, someone must initiate the impeachment procedure. Most often, this occurs when members of the House pass a resolution. Another method outlined in the manual, however, is for individual citizens to submit a memorial for impeachment.

If this is true, could this be the way that we can systematically "clean up" Congress? It all sounds too good to be true, so I'm wondering if any other members who might know a bit more about law, especially Constitutional law, can provide some feedback on this because it could end up being an overlooked loophole to the common good of the American citizen...

Here is the impeachment document as a PDF

What would prevent a large enough group of people from submitting lots of these for the most corrupt individuals? (proof would be needed of course)

Just as an FYI - when I Googled "Do it yourself impeachment" - the site that I referenced in this post was the first to come up and was designed for impeaching Bush and Cheney in 2006. There is nothing saying it can't be used today.

(credit must be given to Jodin Morey of MN for doing the extensive research on this subject and providing it on the sourced website)

~Namaste

Sure there is a way we can do this... It's called revolution.

Too put it in it's most simple of terms.

Originally posted by SonOfTheLawOfOne
Just as an FYI - when I Googled "Do it yourself impeachment" - the site that I referenced in this post was the first to come up and was designed for impeaching Bush and Cheney in 2006. There is nothing saying it can't be used today.

~Namaste

How did that work out?

Originally posted by Kitilani

Originally posted by SonOfTheLawOfOne
Just as an FYI - when I Googled "Do it yourself impeachment" - the site that I referenced in this post was the first to come up and was designed for impeaching Bush and Cheney in 2006. There is nothing saying it can't be used today.

~Namaste

How did that work out?

How do we know whether or not they really pursued it?

I said I found the information there, not that it was really attempted... and impeachment was talked about in Congressional circles so who is to say it wasn't because of a citizen presenting enough evidence?

~Namaste

So... lets start a 'memorial' it couldn't hurt could it?

What about the other half of the people who disagree with you. They count just as much.

Originally posted by SonOfTheLawOfOne


How do we know whether or not they really pursued it?

I said I found the information there, not that it was really attempted... and impeachment was talked about in Congressional circles so who is to say it wasn't because of a citizen presenting enough evidence?

~Namaste

So your source was so confident in what they wrote that they never even tried to put it into action and you somehow think they were onto something?

Good luck with that.

reply to post by mb2591


I agree... a statement of facts that describe impeachable offenses...

What is an impeachable offense? It's considered any "high crime", and not like murder, but a crime by someone who in a publicly elected position. Public officials are obligated in different ways than the average citizen and are subject to punishment for crimes that most ordinary people would not be.

In the military for example... you can be punished for not following orders, moral turpitude, conduct unbecoming, etc. It is considered a high crime, but would not apply to a regular citizen.

Since the same applies to politicians, something as simple as perjury is a high crime by definition, as it lying to the public to intentionally deceive. I'm sure there is enough of this evidence that has been documented simply through the internet, to put together a long list of memorialized documents on several corrupt politicians, such as Barney Frank or Charles Rangel, Dodd, just for their KNOWN offenses.

I'm sure this could also be applied to the people who have overseen things such as Waco, Iraq, Libya, etc.

As you said, how could it hurt? If we can put aside our political differences and just look at the "right and wrong" by common sense, I think people could put together a list of real offenses that deserve to get these people the BOOT.

~Namaste

Originally posted by spyder550
What about the other half of the people who disagree with you. They count just as much.

Disagree about what? Can you clarify what you mean?

I'm not saying any one person needs to be impeached... I'm saying that anyone can be.

~Namaste

reply to post by Kitilani


I didn't say that... I don't know how far they were able to get with it.

Why don't you actually look at it and come to your own conclusions? So far, you've based all of your comments on things I've said and not on the actual merit of the OP.

Thanks for your valuable feedback though.

~Namaste

Originally posted by SonOfTheLawOfOne
So if I'm understanding this all correctly, it basically means that ANY citizen can file for impeachment with ANY House of Representatives member, providing they have the facts, as specified by the word "Memorial" above, and that those facts are presented officially through the House using House Rules, Section 603:

Yes, anyone can petition Congress, but it’s entirely up to the House to start the impeachment procedures, irrespective of how many facts are presented to support that petition.

What would prevent a large enough group of people from submitting lots of these for the most corrupt individuals? (proof would be needed of course)

The biggest impediment is the general apathy of the American people.

Wow, hopeless much sheeple???

Here, I present REAL Congressional documents and a loophole in them that actually benefits the people... and it gets no attention and nobody willing to investigate the validity of it?

And we wonder why the country is falling apart... inaction is just as much a problem as action without a cause.

"I never worry about action, but only inaction."
- Winston Churchill

"Inaction breeds doubt and fear. Action breeds confidence and courage. If you want to conquer fear, do not sit home and think about it. Go out and get busy."
- Dale Carnegie

"Action is a great restorer and builder of confidence. Inaction is not only the result, but the cause, of fear. Perhaps the action you take will be successful; perhaps different action or adjustments will have to follow. But any action is better than no action at all."
- Norman Vincent Peale

What are YOU doing??? At least I'm doing something instead of just talking about it.....

~Namaste

Originally posted by aptness

Originally posted by SonOfTheLawOfOne
So if I'm understanding this all correctly, it basically means that ANY citizen can file for impeachment with ANY House of Representatives member, providing they have the facts, as specified by the word "Memorial" above, and that those facts are presented officially through the House using House Rules, Section 603:

Yes, anyone can petition Congress, but it’s entirely up to the House to start the impeachment procedures, irrespective of how many facts are presented to support that petition.

What would prevent a large enough group of people from submitting lots of these for the most corrupt individuals? (proof would be needed of course)

The biggest impediment is the general apathy of the American people.

I couldn't agree more with your last statement.

How do you mobilize people around something like this? I'm sure there is at least one member of the House that would be willing to get the ball rolling... especially if they believe there is a big enough group of people to change his re-election chances. No?

~Namaste

Originally posted by SonOfTheLawOfOne
reply to post by Kitilani

 

I didn't say that... I don't know how far they were able to get with it.

Why don't you actually look at it and come to your own conclusions? So far, you've based all of your comments on things I've said and not on the actual merit of the OP.

Thanks for your valuable feedback though.

~Namaste

Sorry. I thought you wrote the OP. I thought the merit of it was based on the words contained in it. I was just asking. You included that factoid and it stuck out at me. Bush was never impeached so using a website on how to impeach Bush seemed a little odd so I asked is all. Have fun.

Originally posted by SonOfTheLawOfOne
How do you mobilize people around something like this?

Unfortunately we’re at a point point where the American people can only be mobilized by fear or when you take away the material things they take for granted and comfort them.

As long as American Idol isn’t cancelled, they have internet and can still have pizza delivered to their homes, the majority of people don’t care enough to mobilize for anything.

I do acknowledge aptness point that there is a difference between the law and the application of the law, but that does not mean roll over and give up. I have put together one petition that did take a couple of years to work through the system, but was eventually successful.

If you walk up with a handful of website links and 1 signature on a piece of paper don't expect much. The first step is with the memorial, all the charges need to be well laid out and backed up by proof. Have a website, video, booklets and full copies of the the charges and evidence. This media campaign is going to be important for the petition to be sold across the country and taken up by the public. If you can accompany it with a petition of a few 10's or 100's of thousand of signatures then this will be very difficult for any slippery politician to avoid. I am not full sure how your systems deals with the numbers with petitions but I would aim for at least 2000 signatures for things to be taken seriously.

Then go down to the courts and lodge it, try an get as much publicity as you can when you do and turn it into a circus, but remain respectful to the judge. The wheels of the machine do move slowly, but there is a lot of torque when it does move. Good luck

Also, with the signatures try and get handwritten ones as it becomes more tangible to the processors and reliable than web based signatures. Web based signatures will help as well.

Originally posted by kwakakev
I do acknowledge aptness point that there is a difference between the law and the application of the law, but that does not mean roll over and give up.

And I didn’t meant to suggest this, so my apologies if my negative perspective of the American people and Congress in any way lead you to conclude this was what I was suggesting.

I encourage people to petition Congress and peacefully do whatever else they think will help their goals.

I have recently, for example, suggested to the birthers that they do just that. I don’t sympathize one bit with them but Congress is the place to address their grievance, and if they truly believe what they claim then they should petition Congress to start hearings on Barack Obama’s natural born citizenship status.

I am glad to hear one of your petitions was successful.

reply to post by aptness


That's ok, it does get hard to remain positive on this website at times with some of the topics going around. But it also important to be aware of the situation as it is going to take a lot of effort to perform a successful campaign. There has been a lot of heat for impeachment going around at times, yet to get it moving is a very difficult process. With a lot of stories going around about Clinton and the best the system could impeach him on was a cigar and a stain it does raise some important challenges that will need to be confronted to see this to the end.

great post! good to know

You could pay your taxes to local government instead of strangers who don't know or care about your local problems. That would be a peaceful and reasonable way to "impeach" large portions of illegal government.