Privacy vs Secrecy, Where is the ballance?

I hope this is in the right forum, if not please move...

This topic is about the debate between secrecy versus privacy.

The last decade we had to let go of so many privacy in the name of national security.

Thousands of camera's nearly anywhere, all telecommunications on this planet tapped into by Echelon/Carnivore and other projects, bodyscanners at airports, needing fingerprints on passports, access to all financial information from banks and more.

All in the name of fighting so called terrorism.

While the government takes the right to keep anything a secret, even injunctions to keep those secrets even longer a secret, while most of those secrets are only corruption schemes within government and just lies for self enrichment.

I understand some things are needed to be kept secret when it involves "real national security", but a lot of what goes on is only made secret to protect the corrupted and twisted within the government/Secret Service, and to protect the actions of other governments/Secret Services.

I am wondering, where is the ballance, and has there ever been any real ballance in this matter?

I think the scales of lady justice are completely out of ballance and it's time for her to remove her blindfold.

"He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither."
-Benjamin Franklin

I recognize that in your thread that you identify the inconsequence’s between the privilege the US Government takes for itself and the way the citizen is treated.

In a system that was designed to be a government By the People, For the People secrets should be very limited. As JFK said “We as a people, have been inherently and Historically apposed to secret societies, secret oaths, and secret proceedings.”

Our Constitution affirms that We as a people have the inalienable right to be secure in our homes and papers from governmental intrusion. The only way that this can be circumvented is that there is probable cause that a crime has been committed and that someone with evidence of said crime appears in person in front of a judge and presents this evidence and the judge declares that it is probable that this citizen committed the crime and issues a warrant to enter the citizens home or papers to find a named in the warrant piece of evidence.

Look how far we have fallen. Sneak & Peek searches, Anonymous tips, Data Bases with every key strokes recorded, Secret torture facilities, Secret Courts. So very sad. Not even the Nazi’s ever dreamed of such control over a population, and we go about our day as everything is just fine.

“The Terrorist” is the perfect enemy of the state. No definition of who he his, where he is, so for our safety we must control everything and everyone.

Totalitarianism, Tyranny, New World Order.

So if we were to believe the words of the Government “That the terrorist hate us and attack us because of our freedoms”,

Well the terrorist WON.

Because we have lost All of our freedoms today.

It makes a thinking person ask Who were the REAL terrorist anyway? Looks to me as it was our own Government who hated us because of our Freedoms.

There is no balance.

Privacy is for those in control.

Secrecy is for those who live in darkness.

As a people, we must first accept that we are all human.

Balance is natural and currently we are living unnatural lives resulting in chaos.

The secret is that technology is a lie, money is a lie, what we see on TV is a lie and privacy is for hiding those secrets.

Peace

You make a very good point.

It's seems the government is two sided when it comes to privacy and security.

Government agencies want to introduce more privacy/secrecy in the name of national security while at the same time eliminating privacy/secrecy from the public in the name of national security.

I personally think it should be the other way around.

My personal experiences regarding the Netherlands...

We are the worlds number one , when it comes to tapping the phone calls of the public.

Our freeways are overloaded with camera's everywhere, some of savety, some for speeding controle, but also for registrating your liscence plate so they can see where you were and if it loos suspicious.

Our places where people go out are under surveilance 24/7 but also every other dark public corner is observed.

We used to be innocent until proven guilty... Now we can prove ourselves we didn't commit a crime : example = pimp mobile. Young people who drive a car that look to expensive on them now have to explain how they got it.

And the list goes on and on

It makes me sad people just let it be...

PS
That speech by JFK was horibly true cause we in fact live it as we speak...

I'm actually getting angry so I'l stop for now...

Awesome thread, thanks for the info. It goes well with my thread here... www.abovetopsecret.com... It is always nice to be able to put the pieces together for the bigger picture.

reply to post by IPILYA


I think you will find the following thread very interesting.
It's called : The World as a hostage. Part 1

It's about the world and the path taken by bankers to hold it hostage so to speak

reply to post by Sinter Klaas


Definitely, I will check it out.
Thanks.