The nature of hallucinations ?

Okay, this question is probably a bit complicated, but I have been wondering about this for a while, and I would like to have others opinion about it.

Hallucinations: I've had it maybe two times, but only as "left overs" from my dreams.

It went like this: I woke up. I was probably dreaming something right before I woke up. My eyes are closed. I see nothing. Just pitch black as you'd expect. However, when I opened my eyes, I saw a floating device of some sort, blue, red and white, floating in front of my bed. It looked totally photoshopped and misplaced. It vanished into thin air after 2 seconds. I immediately dismissed it as residue from some sort of dream that I saw while I was still groggy.

However, I started thinking about it and something hit me: I did not see it when my eyes were closed, but it was uncovered bit by bit as my eyelids opened up, just as you'd expect a real object would.

SO, my question is: how the *bleep* does my brain go about hallucinating something that is not visible with my eyes closed, but is uncovered when I open my eyes ? Does that mean that my brain "paints" the hallucination "pixel by pixel" as I open my eyelids?

If so, THAT is amazing !

Maybe the optic nerve can become stained with remnants of its use during certain stages of sleep. The dmt you were tripping on creates a optic information feedback loop that perpetuates itself as a dream, you nerves may have just been flushing themselves out.

They could be the effects of melatonin and serotonin on your pineal gland and other structures in your brain?

reply to post by depth om

If I may, the occipital lobe of the brain is probably the culprit. Imagine that portion of your brain as a computer screen. Data can be "over-layed" onto the images currently being displayed (hallucinations) brought forth by the optical nerves.

Just another thought to ponder.

reply to post by Pointofview


Did it look anything similar to this?

Nope, it had the size of a melon and totally solid. It was also very glossy, like in a bad photoshop job. It did not fit in with the lighting of the room either. Too bright and glossy and such.

reply to post by beezzer


Yes, but if hallucination is an "accident" of the optical system in the brain, why was not the hallucination showing with my eyes closed ?

I guess that is what I'm trying to say: it should have been showing both when my eyes were closed and not. Not just when eyes are open. Especially since it's a residue of whatever my brain was doing before I woke up..

reply to post by beezzer


Black is an image too. Why was it not showing with my eyes closed ?

Originally posted by Pointofview
reply to post by beezzer

 

Yes, but if hallucination is an "accident" of the optical system in the brain, why was not the hallucination showing with my eyes closed ?

I guess that is what I'm trying to say: it should have been showing both when my eyes were closed and not. Not just when eyes are open. Especially since it's a residue of whatever my brain was doing before I woke up..

For the same reason that if you power down your monitor (shut your eyes) the data is still being relayed to your screen, it is just not visible.

Originally posted by Pointofview
reply to post by beezzer

 

Black is an image too. Why was it not showing with my eyes closed ?

It may be showing up. Imagine having a black image on your entire comp screen. What difference would it be to a powered down situation?

I'm not trying to argue the point. Just trying to provide another reason for the occurence.

Yes, and thank you for trying. :-)

Light does get through my eyelids (they are pretty thin), so I think my optical nerves were still "active" when my eyes were closed, but sure.. When I opened my eyes and more light hit my optical nerves, that may have triggered it.

But, if hat is the case, should it not have popped into my view after opening my eyes, not be uncovered partially like a real object?

Thanks for your input, appreciated !

reply to post by Pointofview

There is a hiarchy to neuronal cascade. It's a normal occurence.
Imagine the rods in your eyes being the main power breaker to your home.
The images, and other data could be considered lamps.

Wthout that "breaker" being on, no matter what the input is from other sources, nothing could be "seen".
That's a normal event.

In the arena of hallucinations, other inputs are created to the occipital lobe that can be caused by
1. Chemical, organic influences
2. Random firing of stray dendritic outgrowths
3. TBI's (traumatic brain injuries)
4. Illness, introduction of prions, viruses that have gotten through the blood-brain barrier.

Hope some of this helps.

reply to post by Pointofview


Ok, are they anything like these? Sorry, i just believe my daughter is having the same occurrences...

What shape was the object? Maybe just some strange hallucination, or maybe it was something else...

Astral implant.

Hair splitting on my part: If you see something that isn't there, that may or may not be an hallucination.

If the object seems to be a "trick of the eye" or is immediately associated with remnant of a dream, or other such things-- then you have defined them apart from an hallucination.

If you find you are interacting with something that is not there and an objective observer can tell you that what you believed was there, was not-- then you (or perhaps the observer!) are dealing with an hallucination.

It seems to be that at no time did you believe that what you saw was objectively real, so rather than an hallucination, the primary suspicion is physiological.

I used to have a black-light poster with neat spiral patterns. I liked it because it represented almost exactly what I can sometimes see when I rub my eyes. I later learned that so many people see the same checkered spiral pattern when they lightly rub their closed eyes, the old poster I have had become a common means of describing something most people find familiar and was probably the inspiration for the original artist.

reply to post by Pointofview

Would you file all such experiences as "hallucinations"?.. or even mere anomalies? Have you or do you see auras? Someone who has little or no experiences seeing them may file such an experience ( seeing auras ) as a hallucination, yet how people see things can often be a hallucination of sorts eh?

Many of us claim someone did this or that and in FACT... they DIDN'T do this or that ( as an example )... Are we living or experiencing hallucinations ever so subtle? How often do we create a reality ( real world ) that is mostly a self-construct reality or hallucination and outright in error? P R firms and manipulators of all sorts are quite adept at making masses of people believe illusions as REAL?

Though your example is a personal experience.. I found it interesting that you filed it as "hallucination" and put it on the table for us and for yourself as such. Anomaly, yes... but hallucination seems to help narrow the paradigm somewhat in search for the answers?

The whole realm of language ( and I mean more than words, or sight and sound ) but language.. such as a picture speaks a thousand stories... a symbol.. an emblem.. an experience beyond words etc... hallucinations... visions.. dreams... creative imaginations and intuitions... on and on ..lol

We may get lost in the whole, almost nebulous or plastic / phantasmagorical aspect to it all, but there is a method to the madness eh? There is a way through the subconscious ( and its language ) a way out of the experiential wilderness... Maybe it's like a lady who asked a famous Jazz Musician what all this JAZZ is all about...? "If you don't know by now Lady, you will NEVER KNOW."

So there's those who know by experience or precept ( by example ) and those that don't? I wouldn't go so far as to claim one may "never know", but I would certainly comprehend what a statement like that means! lol There's more to the picture than meets the eye. Guess if you've seen spirits... ghosts etc... Those that haven't and don't may see things different, yet you have your own experience. Many a "doctor" will drug you and claim such experiences some sort of dis-ease.... I claim those doctors ignorant and dangerous and in NO WISE appeal to any authority they may demand. It's a dangerous logic when one case of sickness related to "visions" is applied to All CASES AND EXPERIENCES OF VISIONS.

Thus in a common language most share... Hallucinations is a blanket that covers ever so many experiences and abilities... such as many other "words" and terms that have become very vague in meaning... such as religion, spiritual, science, reality, love etc etc....

People have and do see sounds, as in colors of sounds. But I have never heard tale of people hearing colors. It's almost like it's a one way street. People for the most part consider colors like yellow and blue make green, when mixed. Yet this applies only to pigments and not light. a yellow and blue light will make a grey-like color and not green. So the laws.. the physics involved are different. This may seem trivial in a sense, but there are people known to see many things that convention ignores. Many have a philosophy that they will believe when they see, but our senses can deceive eh? Let alone how many people will see and STILL not believe? lol How many will not see because they refuse to? Because they don't believe?

It reminds me of people who have dreamed the future and forget the experience or file it as they DIDN'T dream the future... Maybe it's that they don't believe they CAN dream the future, therefore they DIDN'T.. why? Because they can't! Even though... they in fact did dream the future. Some go so far as to claim nobody can dream the future... or since "I" can't see auras nobody see's them.

Half the trick might be what and how we choose to think. What you saw I don't know.. Like a UFO I once saw that was metallic for sure... ET or Man-made I DON'T KNOW but the FACT it was a metallic ship and an Unidentified Flying Object... that my friend.. is an Absolute. It in no way followed the laws of physics as handed out to students around the world. It obviously had some laws it operated with, but not as explained in the grand halls of public "science".

No it wasn't a hallucination lol... more substantial then the "object" you saw, but still a matter of choosing for ourselves how to file the experience. Many MANY things have been seen by people... don't think people haven't seen ghosts.. for thousands and thousands of years people have, including this very day. Which brings me back to... "There's more to the picture than meets most peoples eye"...

We can "manifest a thought" with such subtle ease.. like a mere drawing on a piece of paper... an outright manifestation of our thought etc.... in a very real substantial reality and world.. yet seeing a possible thoughtform manifested as we wake up is somehow NOT so subtle? Don't know what you saw.. lol Is seeing a spirit or ghost a hallucination? Guess you don't know what you saw.. but labeling it "hallucination" may be an assumption that you do know?

Why does your cat walk through walls?

Because it doesn't know it can't.

reply to post by Serafine


Interesting post !

I labelled it as a hallucination because it appeared while I was still groggy after waking up just 3 seconds ago. If I had seen the same object while wide awake, that would be a whole different story, - because I simply don't hallucinate, ever.

I agree that there is more between heaven and earth then we know. A whole'lotta more!. However, I'm trying to make sense of it all in a logical sense, and I'm suspecting that this is not possible because of the non-logical nature of the "more". I have experienced the effects of the "law of attraction" myself, and it seems to be a very powerful thing !

And seeing things just as I wake up seems to be a pattern with me. One of these days I woke up, opened my eyes, and to my astonishment something that looked like a huge brownish double DNA helix was coming my way, aiming at my forehead. I instantly dismissed this also as a remnant of some weird dream, but it came my way so fast! And right when it should have hit my forehead my reflexes made me throw my head backwards trying to avoid being hit. As soon as it reached my head, it disappeared.

Weird, but kind of cool! :-)

what was seen was not from your eyes, but your third eye pineal gland because it has a lens and retina, its a projection device in my opinion, television for the brain without any real tv, it projects the dreams you see it, you live it, and you forget it