Why is the flotilla heading for Gaza to break the blockade?

Originally posted by backinblack

Originally posted by nusnus
Everybody knows Israels agenda is to force the Palestinian resistance to break down, and accept their existence as a norm.

But forcing anyone to accept anything is kind of...wrong.

I disagree..
Israel knows Palestine will NEVER accept Israeli actions and therefore the battle will continue while Israel continues it's settlement expansion..

What do you disagree with?

I do agree with you...the battle will continue...but people are getting tired...new children are being born...the old people who continue the war may lose it to the younger generations who just don't give a damn anymore...or so I hope.

reply to post by nusnus


Check out the brainwashing that is pumped into the new generations of 'Palestinian' children.

They are taught to hate Jews, and welcome martydom as an honor to their family.


For me, there is a simple way to view this debate;

If the roles were reversed and Hamas had the military superiority and funding, would they show restraint towards Israel?


Regards, Skellon.

reply to post by gravitational


Really pathetic excuses? I think I am one of the only ones that is not in the pro-Israel camp who condemns Hamas. And yes I do comment on many other injustices, simply look at my posting history: I joined close to the end of the Egyptian revolution and the begining of the Libyan civil strife in order to comment on those. The only reason why I comment more so on Israel is because there is someone on the other side to debate with.

What I think is that your mad because I presented the opposing view of the aid flotilla and you just don't like it when I rationalize the actions of anyone who isn't killing those damn sand monkeys.

I could say the same for you: Why do you only critisize Arabs and Palestinians and constantly justify the actions of the IDF and Israel. It is pretty easy to turn the cards on you. One word: Hypocritical.

Originally posted by Skellon
reply to post by nusnus

 

Check out the brainwashing that is pumped into the new generations of 'Palestinian' children.
They are taught to hate Jews, and welcome martydom as an honor to their family.
Regards, Skellon.

edit on 2-7-2011 by Skellon because: (no reason given)

Mate, a few generations of Palestinians know nothing about life outside of Israeli control and hardship..

As for the brainwashing, look at both sides for that.

reply to post by nusnus

Everybody knows Israels agenda is to force the Palestinian resistance to break down, and accept their existence as a norm.

That's what I disagree with..
Israel knows the Palestinians will never back down and Israel's agenda is based on that knowledge..
Continue the endless battle so land can be stolen...

The historic practice of usuary has positioned some of the Jewish community in places or power and influence in this world, however, I would advise that people clear their heads of conspiracy theories for just a second and read the history of both sides.

Also, check out the history of the Muslim Brotherhood as Skyfloating has recently made a post on this forum that brings up many interesting facts.

The idea of 'Jews control the world' is where alot of this anti-israel hate comes from as I see it.

How can Israel's actions ever be judged in fairly if so many people think that they control the world?


I entertain conspiracy theories, I entertain pretty much all claims that surface on ATS as I like to keep an open mind. However, why is it that people can easily dismiss so many other claims but treat the 'Jews control the world' as a fact?

Regards, Skellon.

Originally posted by Skellon
reply to post by nusnus

 

Check out the brainwashing that is pumped into the new generations of 'Palestinian' children.

They are taught to hate Jews, and welcome martydom as an honor to their family.


For me, there is a simple way to view this debate;

If the roles were reversed and Hamas had the military superiority and funding, would they show restraint towards Israel?


Regards, Skellon.

edit on 2-7-2011 by Skellon because: (no reason given)

Look, I'm Muslim and on top of that I grew up in Saudi Arabia. So I know a LOT of Palestinians who live there. When we were kids, we were 'brainwashed' so to speak. The story was always told from the point of view of Palestinians who suffered on the hands of the Israeli army...but when we grew up we realized there were Palestinians who HADNT suffered on anyones hands...they existed too. But despite the 'brainwashing' you may refer to, my friends and I didn't hate Jews...and we still dont. If a Jewish family were our neighbor we would be good to them because common decency requires so. None of the normal people I met ever thought of suicidal bombings as martyrdom since suicide is bad anyway.

But thats all beside the point. My point is, a lot of people are waking up, realizing that wars don't go anywhere.

As for me as a Muslim, I simply criticize my own people and ask them to improve themselves. I will ofcourse speak out and say the IDF has committed more crimes against humanity than they'd like to accept. But I will never condone hatred of another race...thats totally unacceptable in Islam. And you need to know people like me exist out there.

reply to post by backinblack


I am well aware that all countries use propoganda, my issue with this subject, is that the 'Jews control the world' is just accepted as fact and therefore will always create a bias against Israel, to the disturbing point at which anti-Israel sentiment on this matter avoids being critical of Hamas and in some cases, sees them as being 'caught on the wrong side of a war' and justifies their actions.

Regards, Skellon.

reply to post by nusnus


I appreciate your viewpoint nusnus.

I myself, am not a hater of your people, religion or culture.

I just get annoyed with the blind ignorance that is displayed towards this heated topic.

I am also aware that the situation in the West Bank could not be more different to that of the Gaza Strip.

The difference; Hamas governs, oppresses and brainwashes the population of the Gaza Strip.


Regards, Skellon.

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by nusnus

 

Everybody knows Israels agenda is to force the Palestinian resistance to break down, and accept their existence as a norm.

That's what I disagree with..
Israel knows the Palestinians will never back down and Israel's agenda is based on that knowledge..
Continue the endless battle so land can be stolen...

You gotta keep one thing in mind, the Israeli government has a different agenda then lets say, the normal people who live in Israel. Don't they want more land? Yes they do. Do some of them want to maintain their current land and not venture on more? That is also true. They have a lot of voices in there. They're not all cookie cutter people who want to steal land. But there is ONE thing the Israelis all agree on regardless of their disagreements, is that each and every Palestinian HAS to accept their existence.

Thats my problem with the whole scenario. I don't understand why anyone HAS to accept another persons existence as legal in their land. I don't understand why any forcing has to happen.

Originally posted by Skellon
reply to post by backinblack

 

I am well aware that all countries use propoganda, my issue with this subject, is that the 'Jews control the world' is just accepted as fact and therefore will always create a bias against Israel, to the disturbing point at which anti-Israel sentiment on this matter avoids being critical of Hamas and in some cases, sees them as being 'caught on the wrong side of a war' and justifies their actions.

Regards, Skellon.

I think you'll find that most do not go with the "Jew" concept..

It's more a Zionist issue with a small portion of Jews and others involved..

The persecution of Jews IMO is propaganda to muddy the waters and create sympathy..

Most people don't " treat the 'Jews control the world' as a fact "

MOST people give the topic a fair shake...

Then some find out:

The largest media conglomerate today is Walt Disney Company, whose chairman and CEO, Michael Eisner, is a Jew. The Disney Empire, headed by a man described by one media analyst as a “control freak”, includes several television production companies (Walt Disney Television, Touchstone Television, Buena Vista Television), its own cable network with 14 million subscribers, and two video production companies. As for feature films, the Walt Disney Picture Group, headed by Joe Roth (also a Jew), includes Touchstone Pictures, Hollywood Pictures, and Caravan Pictures. Disney also owns Miramax Films, run by the Weinstein brothers. When the Disney Company was run by the Gentile Disney family prior to its takeover by Eisner in 1984, it epitomized wholesome, family entertainment. While it still holds the rights to Snow White, under Eisner, the company has expanded into the production of graphic sex and violence. In addition, it has 225 affiliated stations in the United States and is part owner of several European TV companies. ABC’s cable subsidiary, ESPN, is headed by president and CEO Steven Bornstein, a Jew. This corporation also has a controlling share of Lifetime Television and the Arts & Entertainment Network cable companies. ABC Radio Network owns eleven AM and ten FM stations, again in major cities such as New York, Washington, Los Angeles, and has over 3,400 affiliates. Although primarily a telecommunications company, Capital Cities/ABC earned over $1 billion in publishing in 1994. It owns seven daily newspapers, Fairchild Publications, Chilton Publications, and the Diversified Publishing Group. Time Warner, Inc, is the second of the international media leviathans. The chairman of the board and CEO, Gerald Levin, is a Jew. Time Warner’s subsidiary HBO is the country’s largest pay-TV cable network. Warner Music is by far the world’s largest record company, with 50 labels, the biggest of which is Warner Brothers Records, headed by Danny Goldberg. Stuart Hersch is president of Warnervision, Warner Music’s video production unit. Goldberg and Hersch are Jews. Warner Music was an early promoter of “gangsta rap.” Through its involvement with Interscope Records, it helped popularize a genre whose graphic lyrics explicitly urge Blacks to commit acts of violence against Whites. In addition to cable and music, Time Warner is heavily involved in the production of feature films (Warner Brothers Studio) and publishing. Time Warner’s publishing division (editor-in-chief Norman Pearlstine, a Jew) is the largest magazine publisher in the country (Time, Sports Illustrated, People, Fortune). When Ted Turner, a Gentile, made a bid to buy CBS in 1985, there was panic in media boardrooms across the nation. Turner made a fortune in advertising and then had built a successful cable-TV news network, CNN. Although Turner employed a number of Jews in key executive positions in CNN and had never taken public positions contrary to Jewish interests, he is a man with a large ego and a strong personality and was regarded by Chairman William Paley (real name Palinsky, a Jew) and the other Jews at CBS as uncontrollable: a loose cannon who might at some time in the future turn against them. Furthermore, Jewish newsman Daniel Schorr, who had worked for Turner, publicly charged that his former boss held a personal dislike for Jews. To block Turner’s bid, CBS executives invited billionaire Jewish theater, hotel, insurance, and cigarette magnate Laurence Tisch to launch a “friendly” takeover of the company, and from 1986 till 1995 Tisch was the chairman and CEO of CBS, removing any threat of non-Jewish influence there. Subsequent efforts by Turner to acquire a major network have been obstructed by Levin’s Time Warner, which owns nearly 20 percent of CBS stock and has veto power over major deals. Viacom, Inc, headed by Sumner Redstone (born Murray Rothstein), a Jew, is the third largest megamedia corporation in the country, with revenues of over $10 billion a year. Viacom, which produces and distributes TV programs for the three largest networks, owns 12 television stations and 12 radio stations. It produces feature films through Paramount Pictures, headed by Jewess Sherry Lansing. Its publishing division includes Prentice Hall, Simon & Schuster, and Pocket Books. It distributes videos through over 4,000 Blockbuster stores. Viacom’s chief claim to fame, however, is as the world’s largest provider of cable programming, through its Showtime, MTV, Nickelodeon, and other networks. Since 1989, MTV and Nickelodeon have acquired larger and larger shares of the younger television audience. With the top three, and by far the largest, media companies in the hand of Jews, it is difficult to believe that such an overwhelming degree of control came about without a deliberate, concerted effort on their part. What about the other big media companies? Number four on the list is Rupert Murdoch’s News Corporation, which owns Fox Television and 20th Century Fox Films. Murdoch is a Gentile, but Peter Chermin, who heads Murdoch’s film studio and also oversees his TV production, is a Jew. Number five is the Japanese Sony Corporation, whose U.S. subsidiary, Sony Corporation of America, is run by Michael Schulhof, a Jew. Alan Levine, another Jew, heads the Sony Pictures division. Most of the television and movie production companies that are not owned by the largest corporations are also controlled by Jews. For example, New World Entertainment, proclaimed by one media analyst as “the premiere independent TV program producer in the United States,” is owned by Ronald Perelman, a Jew. The best known of the smaller media companies, Dreamworks SKG, is a strictly kosher affair. Dream Works was formed in 1994 amid great media hype by recording industry mogul David Geffen, former Disney Pictures chairman Jeffrey Katzenberg, and film director Steven Spielberg, all three of whom are Jews. The company produces movies, animated films, television programs, and recorded music. Two other large production companies, MCA and Universal Pictures, are both owned by Seagram Company, Ltd. The president and CEO of Seagram, the liquor giant, is Edgar Bronfman Jr., who is also president of the World Jewish Congress. It is well known that Jews have controlled the production and distribution of films since the inception of the movie industry in the early decades of the 20th century. This is still the case today. Films produced by just the five largest motion picture companies mentioned above-Disney, Warner Brothers, Sony, Paramount (Viacom), and Universal (Seagram)-accounted for 74 per cent of the total box-office receipts for the first eight months of 1995. The big three in television network broadcasting used to be ABC, CBS, and NBC. With the consolidation of the media empires, these three are no longer independent entities. While they were independent, however, each was controlled by a Jew since its inception: ABC by Leonard Goldenson, CBS first by William Paley and then by Lawrence Tisch, and NBC first by David Sarnoff and then by his son Robert. Over periods of several decades, these networks were staffed from top to bottom with Jews, and the essential Jewishness of network television did not change when the networks were absorbed by other corporations. The Jewish presence in television news remains particularly strong. As noted, ABC is part of Eisner’s Disney Company, and the executive producers of ABC’s news programs are all Jews: Victor Neufeld (20-20), Bob Reichbloom (Good Morning America), and Rick Kaplan (World News Tonight). CBS was recently purchased by Westinghouse Electric Corporation. Nevertheless, the man appointed by Lawrence Tisch, Eric Ober, remains president of CBS News, and Ober is a Jew. At NBC, now owned by General Electric, NBC News president Andrew Lack is a Jew, as are executive producers Jeff Zucker (Today), Jeff Gralnick (NBC Nightly News), and Neal Shapiro (Dateline). The Print Media After television news, daily newspapers are the most influential information medium in America. Sixty million of them are sold (and presumably read) each day. These millions are divided among some 1,500 different publications. One might conclude that the sheer number of different newspapers across America would provide a safeguard against Jewish control and distortion. However, this is not the case. There is less independence, less competition, and much less representation of our interests than a casual observer would think. The days when most cities and even towns had several independently owned newspapers published by local people with close ties to the community are gone. Today, most “local” newspapers are owned by a rather small number of large companies controlled by executives who live and work hundreds or ever thousands of miles away. The fact is that only about 25 per cent of the country’s 1,500 papers are independently owned; the rest belong to multi-newspaper chains. Only a handful are large enough to maintain independent reporting staffs outside their own communities; the rest depend on these few for all of their national and international news. The Newhouse empire of Jewish brothers Samuel and Donald Newhouse provides an example of more than the lack of real competition among America’s daily newspapers: it also illustrates the insatiable appetite Jews have shown for all the organs of opinion control on which they could fasten their grip. The Newhouses own 26 daily newspapers, including several large and important ones, such as the Cleveland Plain Dealer, the Newark Star-Ledger, and the New Orleans Times-Picayune; the nation’s largest trade book publishing conglomerate, Random House, with all its subsidiaries; Newhouse Broadcasting, consisting of 12 television broadcasting stations and 87 cable-TV systems, including some of the country’s largest cable networks; the Sunday supplement Parade, with a circulation of more than 22 million copies per week; some two dozen major magazines, including the New Yorker, Vogue, Madmoiselle, Glamour, Vanity Fair, Bride’s, Gentlemen’s Quarterly, Self, House & Garden, and all the other magazines of the wholly owned Conde Nast group. This Jewish media empire was founded by the late Samuel Newhouse, an immigrant from Russia. The gobbling up of so many newspapers by the Newhouse family was in large degree made possible by the fact that newspapers are not supported by their subscribers, but by their advertisers. It is advertising revenue–not the small change collected from a newspaper’s readers–that largely pays the editor’s salary and yields the owner’s profit. Whenever the large advertisers in a city choose to favor one newspaper over another with their business, the favored newspaper will flourish while its competitor dies. Since the beginning of the 20th century, when Jewish mercantile power in America became a dominant economic force, there has been a steady rise in the number of American newspapers in Jewish hands, accompanied by a steady decline in the number of competing Gentile newspapers–primarily as a result of selective advertising policies by Jewish merchants. Furthermore, even those newspapers still under Gentile ownership and management are so thoroughly dependent upon Jewish advertising revenue that their editorial and news reporting policies are largely constrained by Jewish likes and dislikes. It holds true in the newspaper business as elsewhere that he who pays the piper calls the tune.

www.thepeoplesvoice.org...

reply to post by coastlinekid


Thank you coastlinekid, for making my point.

Knowing this, why is it that most of the Western Main Stream Media is still pro-Palestinian?

Other than the fact that the hunger of Hamas for international condemnation to undermine Israel is in harmony with the our Media's thirst for high ratings through 'misery sells'?


Regards, Skellon.

reply to post by Skellon

Knowing this, why is it that most of the Western Main Stream Media is still pro-Palestinian?

Because Israel continue to steal more land through illegal settlements..

That is called an invasion in anyone's language and can not be justified...

The blockades and repression of the Palestinians is just a means to that end..

Originally posted by Skellon
reply to post by coastlinekid

 

Knowing this, why is it that most of the Western Main Stream Media is still pro-Palestinian?

edit on 2-7-2011 by Skellon because: (no reason given)

I watch (with revulsion) most of the Western Main Stream Media almost every day, and I haven't seen any "pro-Palestinian" stories...

(I am not taking sides here, just acknowledging that the msm is WAY biased...)

reply to post by Skellon


What the HELL is wrong with people like you, I might never understand. But I think it has to do with how your brains are wired.


You say Hamas was involved in destroying these "good things" in Gaza? How do you then respond to the fact that Israel has been active in steering Hamas?

If you can't respond to that, then as far as I'm concerned you are unknowingly spreading propaganda.


Who needs a frigging water park when your hospitals are bombed? You do realize they build these things because water parks, and malls and big ass American refrigerators because they are considered standards of "prosperity" by American television viewers?

reply to post by Skellon


but ya know what?

it would have been over along time ago.


give em uniforms and planes and tanks, sure why not.

no more sympathy no more money, no more big bad israel.


let's see what that does to palistinian opinion.

Originally posted by fooks
reply to post by Skellon

 

but ya know what?
it would have been over along time ago.
give em uniforms and planes and tanks, sure why not.
no more sympathy no more money, no more big bad israel.
let's see what that does to palistinian opinion.

Do you say the same about Israel??

Where would they be without US taxpayer funded arms and money?
Not to mention the unwavering support of veto votes in the UN..

Care to comment or would you rather us ignore that FACT ??

If I was part of a terrorist organisation like Hamas, I would also be peeved that the Freedom Flotilla 2.0 had not been given a chance to set a new precedent and therefore allow my organisation to import arms without restriction.

So what you are saying is the school ground bully can carry a big stick but none of the smaller kids are allowed to carry a stick.

May i sugest you read up on who's running daily raids into gaza using tanks and helicopters and dropping ilegal weapons all over the place as well as steeling land.

If rebels in Liyba are given guns by the french to fight back then why not Gaza so they can stop land being stolen or would it be that we alsways see double standars when it comes to the home of the zionists bankers.

Gods special people sure do course a lot of trouble when you consider how small their numbers are but don't let me stop people helping them to bring about their phony end time games