Pastors to Host Readings From the Qur'an at Churches across the Country to Display Respect and Comb

reply to post by whyamIhere


Also,,,,
Historians say that Mohammed, who as a traveling trader was exposed to Judaism and Christianity during his visits to different parts of the Middle East, tried to mimic those monotheistic faiths by taking Allah, the main deity within the Arabian pantheon, and making it the only god. Indeed, the basic confession of Islam is not that "Allah is Great" but that "Allah is Greater". Greater than all the other idols, that is.

Forums for me are the microcosm of the macrocosm, how we interact with one another,
Atheist against Christian,
Christian against atheist,
Liberal against conservative,
Conservative against Liberals,
yada yada,

Exactly why we are look to a savior, humans are incapable of rising above their petty differences,

Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker

Originally posted by nusnus
reply to post by Ophiuchus 13

 

However, when a bunch of these creations claim things like: "God put the burden of one mans sin on another and made him bleed for it" and you know in your heart of hearts that this sort of goes against the very idea of fairness and equality, someone has to speak up and say it. No?

Can you explain this in greater detail? Just because something goes against our form of thinking doesn't mean it is not true. It troubles me that man thinks so highly of himself. But when it comes to God this verse makes the most sense to me:

"For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways", Says the LORD. "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts higher than your thoughts." Isaiah 55:8-9.

God is smarter than us whether we like it or not.

edit on 30-6-2011 by RealTruthSeeker because: (no reason given)

Yes yes, thats all very nice. But you know as well as I do that God cannot be unfair. God will never be unfair. What does fairness mean? Ask yourself. Its simple, and this is how every human being thinks. If I made YOU as a person, who is completely innocent of another humans actions, PAY for someone elses actions, would you call me fair? Forget calling me fair, would you call me THE MOST FAIR? So, if you believe that God is the Most Fair, how could you ascribe something to Him that completely breaks the concept of fairness?

And this has nothing to do with differences in forms of thinking. If a court ordered a man to hang for the actions of another, people would uprise and call for a retrial. Ascribing such a thing to God and excusing it with: God knows best, is just wrong.

Originally posted by Stormdancer777

Originally posted by thoughtsfull
While it would be nice if all religions could either get along it doesn't seem possible as each doesn't seem to be able to play nice amongst themselves let alone with others.

I must add that I do not subscribe to the notion that the 3 faiths share the same god.. at times I am unsure if each shares the same god amongst themselves.

But we can play nice, I have told this story before on the forum the Christian, and Jewish community came together in our community to help rebuild a mosque that was burned down,

There are moments

edit on 113030p://bThursday2011 by Stormdancer777 because: (no reason given)

There are moments.. and it is a shame there are not more of those.. but I still hold to the notion that until people learn to play nice amongst themselves it's that much harder to play nice with others.

Originally posted by nusnus

Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker

Originally posted by nusnus
reply to post by Ophiuchus 13

 

However, when a bunch of these creations claim things like: "God put the burden of one mans sin on another and made him bleed for it" and you know in your heart of hearts that this sort of goes against the very idea of fairness and equality, someone has to speak up and say it. No?

Can you explain this in greater detail? Just because something goes against our form of thinking doesn't mean it is not true. It troubles me that man thinks so highly of himself. But when it comes to God this verse makes the most sense to me:

"For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways", Says the LORD. "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts higher than your thoughts." Isaiah 55:8-9.

God is smarter than us whether we like it or not.

edit on 30-6-2011 by RealTruthSeeker because: (no reason given)

Yes yes, thats all very nice. But you know as well as I do that God cannot be unfair. God will never be unfair. What does fairness mean? Ask yourself. Its simple, and this is how every human being thinks. If I made YOU as a person, who is completely innocent of another humans actions, PAY for someone elses actions, would you call me fair? Forget calling me fair, would you call me THE MOST FAIR? So, if you believe that God is the Most Fair, how could you ascribe something to Him that completely breaks the concept of fairness?

And this has nothing to do with differences in forms of thinking. If a court ordered a man to hang for the actions of another, people would uprise and call for a retrial. Ascribing such a thing to God and excusing it with: God knows best, is just wrong.

You only say it is unfair because you don't fully understand why something is being done. God is not unjust or unfair, and He does not forget the work and labor of love which one shows in his name. There are alot of things being done in unfairness, but this is not God's fault, man has the power to do what he wishes whether God likes it or not. Therefore man can never blame God for his own actions.

Originally posted by whyamIhere
reply to post by Bad Dog

 

All the Muslims I know are peaceful.

Their book is no more outrageous than the Bible.

Christians and Muslims worship the same God.

Maybe a little understanding would be helpful.

If Christians and Muslims worship the same God, then every Muslim would agree 100% with the following verses:

John 1:1-3(KJV)
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2The same was in the beginning with God.
3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

John 1:14(KJV)
14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

reply to post by Bad Dog


can you just imagine a mosque reading verse's from the bible it would never happen surely this must offend every christian in the US as it sickens me to hear that the christian faith has been so polluted that they now have to suck up to the falsh prohpet, in the quoran when it came to mohammed didn't it say do not try to decieve moh as he is the greatest deciever of them all, and now there reading it in your churches sharia law coming to america soon how can you allow this they have attacked every thing you believe in and now it time for them to tackle your churches and religion I sincerely hope you do not attend, this is not islamic phobic either they will tell you openly what they want and you still do not hear what they are saying I suppose that's what you get when you have a indonesian muslim for a president

I find it sad that people are actually going AGAINST this endeavour. Stormdancer brings up a point that moments of acceptance and brotherhood are rare, but these pastors are actively TRYING to do this, and then people are shooting them down.


To clarify to the people here who are too blind to notice: These pastors aren't trying to combine religions, or promote some "one world religion" or trying to make islam better than christianity. They are trying to foster UNDERSTANDING. Because (as can be evidenced by many people in this thread), many people have no idea at all what Islam is about, and they only get their learning from the media (and we know what THAT focuses on ).
As Soldier of God mentioned, Christianity (at least the majority strain of it) takes Jesus's Crucifixion as a central tenet. Islam rejects that it ever happened. These two religions are never going to "combine", but a little understanding between them would be useful.

As for the moon-god bunkum...yeah, it's all BS (The Moon God Conspiracy) cooked up by a crackpot that is certainly not a "Historian".

reply to post by whyamIhere


Everything besides your first line are completely not true. Yes most are peaceful, but your statements saying both worship the same God wouldnt be agreed to by either side of the theological fence.

Originally posted by Bad Dog
I don't know how they expect to combat anti-muslim bigotry by reading from their holy book. The muslim 'holy book' isn't exactly a peaceful book.

That is not true. There are many peaceful passages in the Qua'ran that even preach tolerance.

The pastors involved will probably cherry pick the readings and only read those that are calm and that were stolen from the Christian faith to begin with.

Pastors cherry pick readings from the bible all the time. There are MANY violent and terrible passages in the bible that pastors chose not to read to the congregation.

One of the articles Pope Benedict. A few years back he went to a Muslim mosque in Turkey and bowed to Mecca. That is something no Christian would do. He was validating a religion that doesn't tolerate Christianity.

There is a HUGE difference between "validation" and "showing respect". The Christian and Islamic both worship Abraham's god. By bowing to Mecca he was simply bowing to God, as the Muslims do.

Are these Christian pastors exercising misplaced compassion or are they dupes of the NWO One World Religion?

You've presented a false dichotomy. It is entirely possible that there were doing nothing more than exercising compassion, not "misplaced" compassion.

Personally, I take issue with the assumption that showing respect and compassion towards another religion can be equated with supporting the NWO. This is yet another logical fallacy in your argument.

reply to post by Rockstrongo37


What you said is not true. It is a fact that both worship Abraham's god. They each have different names for God. One calls Abraham's god, Jehova or Yaweh and the other calls him Allah. Most Muslims will acknowledge the fact that Christianity and Islam worship the same god. It is Christians who refuse to accept this fact.

The way in which they worship this god and who they see as their messiah is the difference, not the God himself.

Also, in the Qua'ran, Jesus is mentioned and he is much respected in Islam. However, he is seen simply as a prophet and not a messiah.

ETA: I left out that Judaism also worships the same God as Islam.

Islam, Judaism, and Christianity all worship the god of Abraham.

reply to post by babloyi


I'm with you. We have an example of Christian leaders actually doing something Christ-like for a change and people want to shoot them down as being in collusion with or blindly supporting the NWO. People are soooo hateful of Islam that even when their own religious leaders show respect to Islam, they turn on those leaders as being traitorous.

Originally posted by whyamIhere
It's just a question of Prophets.
Jesus or Muhammad. Take your pick.
But, we do worship the same God.

No. We do not worship the same god. The muslims do not worship Muhammad as god. They see him as a prophet. They see Jesus as a prophet. However, Christians worship Jesus AS GOD. Christians don't see Jesus as a prophet, but instead as god incarnate. As I said, the Christians have a triune god - Father, Son, Holy Spirit. Muslims have the one god. Big difference.

Originally posted by babloyi
They are trying to foster UNDERSTANDING. Because (as can be evidenced by many people in this thread), many people have no idea at all what Islam is about,

The people who don't know what Islam is all about are the pastors that are reading their cherry picked quotes from the Qur'an. If they REALLY wanted to promote understanding, then they'd get educated on the truth about Islam. It's not a bed of roses. It's not all peaches and cream. Besides, their jobs aren't to be politically correct and promote understanding. Their jobs are to teach truth, which according to christianity comes from Christ and the scriptures. The Qur'an denies Christ. The writings in the Qur'an, according to christianity aren't from god. Therefore the pastors have no business doing this. According to Christianity they are leading their flocks astray.

Originally posted by Bad Dog

The people who don't know what Islam is all about are the pastors that are reading their cherry picked quotes from the Qur'an. If they REALLY wanted to promote understanding, then they'd get educated on the truth about Islam.

Maybe you should offer to teach them since you seem to be the expert on Islam.

Originally posted by Bad Dog

Originally posted by whyamIhere
Christians and Muslims worship the same God.
Maybe a little understanding would be helpful.

They don't worship the same god. Christians have a triune god. Muslims have Allah. Christians worship Jesus. Muslims do not. But yes, a little understanding would be helpful. Understanding on how exactly Islam really got started and how it does not tolerate the Christian faith. Instead of cherry picking nice readings out of the Qur'an, perhaps those pastors should read up on what Islam thinks of them and their faith.

Compassion is great. Tolerance is wonderful. But this is misplaced and gives a false picture of a major religion. It white washes over the fact that Islam does not tolerate Christianity. It white washes over the fact that Islam got started with faked visions. Supposedly, Christianity isn't supposed to uphold false visionaries and 'wrong' religions. Supposedly it's supposed to promote truth.

Supposedly.

edit on 30-6-2011 by Bad Dog because: (no reason given)

You're too stupid for your own thread.

Originally posted by nunya13
There are many peaceful passages in the Qua'ran that even preach tolerance.

They are few and far between compared to the ones that preach violence and intolerance.

By bowing to Mecca he was simply bowing to God, as the Muslims do.

Don't kid yourself. The pope bowing to Mecca was not him bowing to God. God doesn't live in Mecca. As a Catholic, the pope believes that Jesus (god) is present on earth physically only in the Eucharist in the Catholic Church tabernacle. By bowing to Mecca he was acknowledging a false religion (according to catholicism) and participating in a pagan practice.

Originally posted by demetriandlucy
You're too stupid for your own thread.

You failed to show what exactly I said that is in error. None of it is. So good luck with that.

Originally posted by Bad Dog

Originally posted by whyamIhere
It's just a question of Prophets.
Jesus or Muhammad. Take your pick.
But, we do worship the same God.

No. We do not worship the same god. The muslims do not worship Muhammad as god. They see him as a prophet. They see Jesus as a prophet. However, Christians worship Jesus AS GOD. Christians don't see Jesus as a prophet, but instead as god incarnate. As I said, the Christians have a triune god - Father, Son, Holy Spirit. Muslims have the one god.

Everything you said can also be said about Judaism. The worship only Abraham's god. They do not see Jesus as the messiah or as God incarnate. Yet, Christianity and Judaism still worship the same God and no one would deny this. So how you could deny this regarding Islam is rather confusing.

The only way Judaism and Islam differ from Christianity, other than in choice of worship, is that they do not see Jesus as another aspect of God. That is a big difference from saying that because they don't worship Jesus, they don't worship the same God. Instead, it would be more accurate to say they don't worship every aspect of God as Christians do based on their belief in the trinity.

Originally posted by Bad Dog

Don't kid yourself. The pope bowing to Mecca was not him bowing to God. God doesn't live in Mecca. As a Catholic, the pope believes that Jesus (god) is present on earth physically only in the Eucharist in the Catholic Church tabernacle. By bowing to Mecca he was acknowledging a false religion (according to catholicism) and participating in a pagan practice.

Just because Christians don't see God as living in Mecca doesn't mean that to acknowledge that another religion does and show respect toward that belief by also bowing to Mecca is something sinister.

There is nothing pagan about bowing to Mecca. Christians participate in pagan practice all the time and throughout the year. Christmas, Easter, Halloween, etc. are all holidays ripped off from the Pagan tradition and adapted by Christianity. We even still practice paganism when we cut down a tree and adorn it with lights and silver (something Jesus explicitly forbids in the Bible!). Then we color Easter eggs symbolizing fertility like the pagans did on the day they paid homage to Esther or Ishtar, the goddess of fertility during the Spring Equinox (which they saw as the signal of rebirth and renewal.