Iron Curtain APS : amazing video of Americas new RPG proof armor - no armor needed!!

This has got to be the closest thing to a forcefield ive ever seen, imagine this on ships! Not sure this is proper for Weaponry forum, its kind of an 'Anti-Weapon'.

Leave it to the Isrealis to develop some wicked sheet. I want this on my car for my drive to work! This looks like some rules for the battlefield might have to change.

Imagine shooting a RPG at a vehicle from 20 feet away, and nothing happens, just keeps on riding.



And heres a news article www.strategypage.com...

So what you think?

Originally posted by ErEhWoN
This has got to be the closest thing to a forcefield ive ever seen, imagine this on ships! Not sure this is proper for Weaponry forum, its kind of an 'Anti-Weapon'.

Leave it to the Isrealis to develop some wicked sheet. I want this on my car for my drive to work! This looks like some rules for the battlefield might have to change.

Imagine shooting a RPG at a vehicle from 20 feet away, and nothing happens, just keeps on riding.

And heres a news article www.strategypage.com...

So what you think?

Uhhhhh, thats pretty bad ass. I think that's all I have to say about that.

reply to post by ErEhWoN

thats a pretty cool video, but could you explain how it works pls?
all i got from the video was 'radar+optics+countermeasure='

light weight and low cost , with Radar millisecond tracking capabilities ?????

personally i think the implementation of this would be a nightmare.

1) It may stop the first rocket, but it's not going to stop the next dozen rockets, or multiple rockets at once from all directions.

2) It's not going to end up well for buddies outside of the vehicle, which is why I am skeptical about placing this on a hummer like in the video.

3) In actual combat conditions, where there's smoke and dust and lasers and everything flying around, how well do these optical sensors work? Do they accidently go off at things that aren't intended to attack the vehicle (like shrapnel)?

It's also an expensive system to ad to your vehicle. And no, these do not mean you don't need armor, that's rediculous. All APS systems do is attempt to intercept incoming anti-vehicle projectiles, ie missiles/rockets, which will hopefully prolong the life of your equipment.

I'm also pretty sure this specific APS system is called "Iron Fist", developed by Israel.

Personally, I like the Russian Arena system. They cost like $300,000 grand a unit, but it gives a serious defensive advantage to an elite armoured company (like T-90S). Of course you don't want any friendlies running around beside you because the APS could potentially kill them when deployed.

How robust is it?
In the video, all the shots were below what I imagined to be this 'Iron Curtain' system, but what if the unit itself was hit?

reply to post by neonitus


I wish I could! It isn't mentioned in any articles I read, or on the companies website.

There was a mention in one article about small rockets I think, can't remember which one it was? But the actual process of destroying the incoming round is not gone into detail on any article I have seen.

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi


Thanks for your reply and comments.

You wouldn't happen to know what this system uses to actually disable the incoming projectile?

Or what caliber rounds does it protect against. I couldn't find any specific numbers, but judging by the video maybe up to 120 mm? And they say in the article effective against snipers, so down to small arms caliber.

Originally posted by aorAki
How robust is it?
In the video, all the shots were below what I imagined to be this 'Iron Curtain' system, but what if the unit itself was hit?

You make a good point too. For example, you could take out the unit's sensors with bullets or grenades; I am specifically thinking of something like the RKG-3 grenade, which was used extensively in Iraq against coalition vehicles. Basically you throw it, a parachute deploys quickly, and it blows up above the target vehicle (and it's armed with an penetrating explosive design).

Yeah, it kinda seems like more work to disable the APS system first before attacking the vehicle but I don't think the APS is all that invincible in the first place. For instance, there were reports of Metis anti-tank guided missiles striking Merkavas when the IDF attacked Lebannon, but I've only seen one report of a Trophy APS intercepting an enemy projectile. I am trying to say that APS deployed on vehicles offer tactical advantages, but in the strategic view of the battle, they aren't a game-changer.

APS systems seem to be developed for modern armoured forces to cope with guerellas using older and cheap anti-armour rockets (like RPG-7V). The first deployed APS was Drozd in 1980s Afghanistan, for instance. APS systems won't be a key asset in warfare between modern countries, especially with deployments of top-attack ATGMs, whether they are ground/armoured/air launched.

EDIT: ErEhWoN-
en.wikipedia.org...

There's some basic description of some APS systems here (there's a list of them near the bottom). I'm pretty sure that it's called "Iron Fist" though, not "Iron Curtain".

Holy crap could I (we) have used that for the last decade. Lost more than a handful of buddies due to RPG fire directed at unarmored convoys.

Next on the list is the anti-IED, who I've lost more buddies to than all other direct and indirect methods of fire than anything. Problem is, a 500 pounder with a wireless detonator is pretty much fail-safe, assuming its been wired correctly. Thanks for the post, I'm having a blast reading into this technology and its applications.

Hmm... why doesn't it trigger the warhead on the projectile to explode? Is there a danger of that happening? Also, I wonder if some kind of decoy probe at the front of a projectile would defeat this protection.

Now all I have to do is build a two piece rocket-launching system and that would render this useless.

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
2) It's not going to end up well for buddies outside of the vehicle, which is why I am skeptical about placing this on a hummer like in the video.

But they'll probably be better off than if the warhead on the projectile detonates, right?

3) In actual combat conditions, where there's smoke and dust and lasers and everything flying around, how well do these optical sensors work? Do they accidently go off at things that aren't intended to attack the vehicle (like shrapnel)?

This seems like such an obvious danger that I can't imagine they would develop this system unless they were confident they could devise a method for the system to distinguish between real threats and other objects.

Originally posted by josh2009s
Now all I have to do is build a two piece rocket-launching system and that would render this useless.

en.wikipedia.org...

The RPG-30 was unveiled in 2008 by the State Research and Production Enterprise, Bazalt as a modern anti-tank grenade launcher designed to address the threat of reactive armor and active protection systems on tanks[1]. Active protection systems (APS) such as ARENA-E, Drozd and Trophy defeat anti-armour munitions by destroying them before they reach the target, the RPG-30 is an intended response to the introduction of these systems. The RPG-30 has cleared its testing program and is waiting to be included in the Russian state arms procurement program as of November 2008[1].

The RPG-30 shares a close resemblance with the RPG-27 in that it is a man-portable, disposable anti-tank rocket launcher with a single shot capacity. Unlike the RPG-27 however, there is a smaller diameter precursor round in addition to the main round. This precursor acts as a false target, tricking the APS into engaging it and allowing the main round a clear path to the target, while the APS is stuck in the 0.2-0.4 second delay needed to start its next engagement[1].

Here is an RPG-32 test, which is similar to the RPG-30.

Tearman-
But they'll probably be better off than if the warhead on the projectile detonates, right?

The projectile is meant to attack the vehicle with an anti-tank warhead. If it hits the vehicle, then it's main damage is going to be to the vehicle and anyone inside.

The APS uses projectiles flying away from the vehicle to attack the incoming projectile. Some APS use rockets, some use "shotgun" like deterants, etc. What this means is that any person within a certain radius of the APS, which launches automatically I must add, is in a potential death zone.

If you are driving a vehicle with APS, and you have men walking alongside you, then you'll probably be instructed to disable the APS system anyways... which means you can really only field them on heavy armour units.

I must add that the Americans have been working on an APS system for awhile that uses a directed energy weapon to intercept incoming projectiles. However, I can't see this as being very practical at this time in development nor anything but insanely expensive to deploy.

Well this seems like such an obvious danger that they wouldn't be pushing this system unless they were confident they could devise a method for the system to distinguish between real threats and other objects.

There's always room for error.

And there's always room for screwing around with the APS itself. For instance, some APS systems are designed to produce many laser beams to lower the chance of getting hit by a laser-guided missile; some are designed to discharge smoke in a 180* to 360* diameter around the vehicle. An enemy could use this to their advantage by deliberately shooting a rocket at the APS to set it off, which in turn could interfere with the defensive vehicles' weapons optics or viewfinders.

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi


I wanna see this thing fired at the "Iron Curtain." I'm guessing it wouldn't work.

Originally posted by josh2009s
reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

 

I wanna see this thing fired at the "Iron Curtain." I'm guessing it wouldn't work.

Why not? It's made specifically to defeat such APS systems as Trophy and Iron Fist, and the Russians certainly have there own share of APS systems to test the RPG-30 on to prove it successful.

And lets be honest here: the Merkava Mk4 probably has the best defense capability out of any modern tank without APS. I will give the IDF this credit.

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi


I meant the Iron Curtain probably would not be effective.

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

Did you even watch the video?

1) It may stop the first rocket, but it's not going to stop the next dozen rockets, or multiple rockets at once from all directions.

The video shows it stopping multiple rockets from all directions. And how many situations occur where more than a couple rockets are fired before the people shooting them are mowed down?

2) It's not going to end up well for buddies outside of the vehicle, which is why I am skeptical about placing this on a hummer like in the video.

The video addresses this, too, saying nearby items were not harmed.

3) In actual combat conditions, where there's smoke and dust and lasers and everything flying around, how well do these optical sensors work? Do they accidently go off at things that aren't intended to attack the vehicle (like shrapnel)?

And again, this is addressed in the video with the rocket destroyed after first travelling through a vehicle driving past the target. You would think the 2nd vehicle would have interfered with the defensive system, but it did not.

Again, Did you even watch the video?

I love everyone picking this apart. This has been developed for REAL WORLD threats. I have not once, in almost a decade of active combat, seen more than 2 rpg's hit the same vehicle. This system most likely has a kill switch near the dash or coms. Hate to tell you, this type of detonation sure as hell beats an uncontrolled detonation of an RPG, in or outside the vehicle.

The most logical and practical use of this technology would be on patrols, but the dwindling insurgency prefers remotely detonated IEDs these days as compared to the full-on ambush.

Originally posted by aorAki
How robust is it?
In the video, all the shots were below what I imagined to be this 'Iron Curtain' system, but what if the unit itself was hit?

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