Today's Immigration vs Our Ancestors

Yeah they did it legally

but did they have to pay $1,000 per application, fill out numerous paperwork, wait 5-12 months and still on top of that there is going to be human error, which may result in you having to repeat the whole process again.

Most illegals come in illegally because they don't have the means to do it legally. You can harp on about how your ancestors came in the "legal" way which was to hop on a ship and arrive at Ellis island, be given a number, a medical checkup and they were good to go.

Do you seriously think that we would have a huge illegal immigration problem, if all they had to do was to get on a bus arrive at DHS checkpoint, be given a medical check up? I think not.

reply to post by muse7


If the immigrants demand housing and schooling then yes even legal immigration would become a problem. The mexican immigrants do not try to assimilate. Immigrants cry about their kids if they dont have spanish speaking teachers....they want spanish signs on streets... its a joke. Press 1 for spanish wtf is that... Press 2 for english...

You know what happend to my grandparents if they spoke italian they got hit and were told to speak english by their parents who wanted them to be americans. That is the difference. Mexico is americas biggest enemy...a scourge to freedom. If left unchecked think about how many more mexicans will be in america???? The border towns are being renamed to the old mexican names now that the americans are out numbered. Its a way for them to invade us without firing a shot... take us over the inside.

while i agree with the op, being 2nd gen italian on moms side(dad was native american and english +)

i know and have worked with illegals, through the years.

where i live now, it is extremely difficult to work if you are not legal.

i couldn't even hire my own brother from the states. i had to prove he was so unique that a local couldn't do the job!

you need a work visa and a contract. easy for big companies and it takes time and $$$.

if you have one, you can't change jobs or moonlight.

there are countries like the phillipines you can't leave for economic reasons.

anyone who works here is either under contract or a legal resident or native, of course.

i have sympathy for the illegals who want a better life, they are great people, as i've experienced and some are friends.

where am i going with this, lol, ok, i also know many who work their butts off to be legal through the system.

same, friends.

here you will face 6months in jail and $250,000.00 fine for illegals working for you and you are sooooooooo out of here if you are illegal.

they WILL work for less than min wage, they have too, lol! "need a raise boss"

having a moonlighting domestic employed on their day off is a no no too. imagine!

these laws are to save jobs for the locals and legals.

you just can't go anywhere in the world without a visa or papers, let alone work.

we have to lock down the borders, i don't think canadians will want to dash through anyway, and get rid of laws that make it easy to hide. anchor babies and such.

stomp the companies/people that hire them and make it hurt.

make them give contracts that state they will be financially responsible for them for the length of the contract so they cannot just give them a piece of paper and let them loose. too bad if they were deceived by fake or stolen ss# or papers.

back in the day of ellis island, america had it right, there was the real promise of freedom and opportunity.

immigrants started and built this country, english, irish, italian, african, mexicans, chinese, hell even russians and cubans etc!! add in every country and peoples of the world, btw.
sorry, no links for that claim.

i am not forgetting the native americans here, please, we wouldn't know anything about this country without them.
besides the op is about immigration. exploitation is in there but not that way.


we could save billions, close the border, send them back. that will create jobs!

Wow..."THATS RACIST!" Really? Cause I live In way Southern Arizona. I'd bet 90% of my friends are mexican. Im against illegal immigration. So are a bunch of my legal immigrant friends. "Oh americans wont do the jobs!" Really? Tell that to a guy whose losing his house and his kids are starving, and still has to pay taxes. And shame on the companies that hire illegals. IF they really wanted to "help them out" then the company should work to help them legally get into the country, and pay them what everyone else is being paid. Basically, treat this crime like it is, A CRIME.

Originally posted by muse7
Yeah they did it legally

but did they have to pay $1,000 per application, fill out numerous paperwork, wait 5-12 months and still on top of that there is going to be human error, which may result in you having to repeat the whole process again.

Most illegals come in illegally because they don't have the means to do it legally. You can harp on about how your ancestors came in the "legal" way which was to hop on a ship and arrive at Ellis island, be given a number, a medical checkup and they were good to go.

Do you seriously think that we would have a huge illegal immigration problem, if all they had to do was to get on a bus arrive at DHS checkpoint, be given a medical check up? I think not.

Average trans-atlantic steerage class was somewhere around $18 dollars a person (which if I pick the middle of the century was the equivilant of $465.51) Before you were allowed to board you went through a medical exam (men would get their hair cut really short, and women would get their hair combed through to make sure they were lice free as well as deamed healthy enough to enter the country. Then you lived in tiny quarters with narrow beds sometimes stacked up as high as 3 at the bottom of the ship. You would live off of luke warm soup, boiled potatoes and stringy beef for at least 40 days, but sometimes as long as 6 months. Finally when you arrived to Ellis Island you waited long lines to be checked by another doctor, possibly get your name changed, and then let loose with no job/prospects/ and for many with no ability to speak the language.

Yeah, they had it sooooooo easy.

Truth is many legal immigrant sold everything they owned to come to America and get that Dream everyone talks about. Very often, after the trip over they would not have enough to return... even if they wanted to. I have a family story that my great-great grandmother (might have another great this was pre-civil war time) saw the slaves for sale on the docs and insisted she wanted to return to Germany.... and couldn't cause of how much it cost to go back.

Thing is... They got to the US, learned english, got jobs, worked their way to the midwest, bought land, became farmers and then sold the farms to get jobs in St. Louis.

They did NOT get free anything. So why do people who fordge a river, or jump a fence feel they should get something?

Originally posted by EmVeeFF
reply to post by YouDeserveToKnow

 

Really man? Why do people have to be so IGNORANT when it comes to illegal immigration? IT IS WRONG. It is ILLEGAL. They have no right to be here! If I illegally immigrated to another country I would be deported, why should America be any different? There is an immigration process for a reason, and if it's "too hard" then reform it instead of just saying "hey all you dudes that broke the law and haven't been paying # for taxes, no worries your set."

edit on 28-6-2011 by EmVeeFF because: (no reason given)

This is just ignorant and wrong.
By this logic any one that drives without a seat belt is a criminal too.

If you leave your car unlocked and leave the keys in it this is a crime.
You are a criminal.

Say you are a criminal for leaving the door unlocked
and someone steals a gun out of your glove compartment
and commits a murder and now you are an accessory to murderer too.
People are dying from stolen handguns here in Florida due to regular people
committing acts just as "illegal" as another stepping over a boarder to feed their family.

reply to post by ABWarrior58

Just my opinion but people should be allowed to go where they like. Most immigrant, refugees whatever you want to call them travel for a better life or a Fair Go. Here in oz we treat them like terrorists and lock up the illegal boat people, seperate families etc. Our politions even invented the term people smugglers to propaganda the sheeple into hating them all when in reality almost all are people escaping war and poverty. If i was unfortunate enough to be born in a crappy poor war torn country i'd get some people together and try to buy a boat and sail the seas for a better land. Alot of these poor countries can never get in front cause the west exploits their abundantt resourse for nothing near their value in food aid etc. We should be ashamed for treating other humans like we do. Every other living creature can migrate around where they like. Peave, love and tolerance

and before people start with the '' we can't take them all in, do you want them all in oz''... THats wouldn't be a issue if we the well of didn't waste so much money on crap and shared a bit more. Remember sharing that word our parents taught us as kids. People care more about a new flat screen or updating their perfectly fuctional last year model cars than they do the hundreds of millions of people who don't even have clean water to drink. Paying ceo,s millions a year when an hour of their time isn't worth that much more than anyone elses. There is more than enough money food and resourses for everyone to have a fair go and not want to immigrate but we greedy aren't willing to share. Some continents have more gold, some better farming land, some more food, not many can survive independanlty of other but monopilisation and greed have kept some prosporing and alot poor. What a sad world we live in.

Originally posted by crikeyoioioi
and before people start with the '' we can't take them all in, do you want them all in oz''... THats wouldn't be a issue if we the well of didn't waste so much money on crap and shared a bit more. Remember sharing that word our parents taught us as kids. People care more about a new flat screen or updating their perfectly fuctional last year model cars than they do the hundreds of millions of people who don't even have clean water to drink. Paying ceo,s millions a year when an hour of their time isn't worth that much more than anyone elses. There is more than enough money food and resourses for everyone to have a fair go and not want to immigrate but we greedy aren't willing to share. Some continents have more gold, some better farming land, some more food, not many can survive independanlty of other but monopilisation and greed have kept some prosporing and alot poor. What a sad world we live in.

we live in a dysfunctional world, and if you tried to straighten it out, you would be called an anti christ, socialist, communists, facist, whatever. the idea is to throw mud and see which one sticks.

the chaos in our society serves many who are willing to spend a lot of money to keep the disaster going.

the illegal alien may work for little, but food stamps, rent subsidy, fuel assistance, tax refunds, all add up.
but how else could the CEO make a million dollars a year plus benefits, except with cheap labor.

the construction companies want to build government housing, the non profits catering to the underclass multiply,all good jobs for those providing the services.

and for the financial sector, anything that will keep them off the front page is a blessing.

the tax system, the health care, education, housing, all a disaster.

the rich, living off their tax subsidies throw crumbs at the poor and say, you too is a crook.
just like me the system takes care of you.

the bankers threaten the politicians, we go down, you have to pick up the mess.

the Republicans want to destroy Obama, and Obama wants to win Republican votes?
they waste weeks debating stupidity, no time to look at immigration.

it's very confusing, and no one is running the ship.
the Merlin of our age are the financial gurus that have to keep this ponzi scheme going.

like an earthquake going through economies, victims are created.

if one looks at it's natural resources, Mexico is one of the richest countries in the World.
they have agriculture, water, oil, gas, minerals in abundance.

they do not have a functional society.

compare to Brazil.

I heard america had a problem with imigration a while ago too. It was called Europeans. or so leaked official White Wig Wam doucuments said. :0

I'm not an economist so I have no clue whether this cheap labor benefits the Economy or not. But that being said, there are two things that royally chap my ass about this whole situation.

First off, anyone that disagrees with illegal immigration is automatically labelled a racist. The term racism is a cancerous wart on the ass of society. I live in Texas so I have many Hispanic friends. It seems even the most Americanized of them supports illegal immigration. Is this because these illegals have the same amount of melanin in their skin as my Hispanic friends? If so, that sounds pretty damned racist to me.

Also their sense of entitlement gives me the urge to kick a kitten through a set of goal posts.

Well this is my first post because I thought maybe I could share my theory on the immigration issue.. Now I my self am from Idaho and have been hit hard by the effects of the sudden surge of immigration over the past twelve or so years. Especially in my trade of construction. So from experience i know first hand that there is detrimental effects that are plaguing our country from this problem.

However we must look at the source of the problem to find our solution and that is the federal governments of the United States and Mexico and it all started with George H.W. Bush spearheading NAFTA Following with Bill Clinton signing the detriment to our countries. This all started the ball rolling for a little gem called the North American Union. And that my fellow ATS members is the first step in the the game the elites love to play called incrementalism. Because NAFTA did nothing more than to steal from both nations, the U.S. was now allowed to offset all of our bulk commodities corn wheat grains ect. Therefore destroying the Mexican farmers and causing a huge displacement with the economy in Mexico. So then we have the burden on Americans by seeing a mass exodus of illegal immigrants trying to provide for their family's by being sold the dream from the Mexican government. With the Mexican government going as far to give a comic "The Guide for the Mexican Migrant," which showed and told them how to cross the border successfully to look for work in the U.S.

So we are all under hardships and that is understandable. And no i don't condone the entry of our country illegally because it as it says illegal. Furthermore I believe if you are going to come to our country learn the language not only will help you to blend in more but as a whole you will be more excepted. and this leads me to

NAU incrementalism part two. the atrocious disregard by the United States to make English the official language of U.S. But instead thanks to Bill Clinton again and executive order 13166 improving access to services for persons with limited English proficiency. He made it where the government in all papers IRS forms drivers licenses so on and so forth to be provided to all languages and ones discretion not to mention interpreters at the cost of the taxpayer's. Shortly there after everyone had to press one for English. But this was done with the knowledge of a NAU and that is why today we see road signs in Spanish we have to look at all 4 sides of the box to find the English. Knowing that we all be one entity anyway it does not matter who assimilates for we all will be one nation in the end.

That is why instead of pointing fingers and screaming we need to realize the bigger picture before it is too late. I mean didn't we have last year the president of Mexico threating to sue Arizona over the constitutionality over their immigration law. The pieces of the puzzle are really showing the bigger picture here and the movement forward with the NAU. And with the enactment of the NAU we have no sovereignty and worst of all, you know as well as I do the rewriting of the constitution. Making us all slaves to our masters.

Well thank you for letting me say my piece it's time to take off my tinfoil hat cause they give you cancer too and get a little sun. these are just my thoughts and whether I am right or not. It is what makes most sense to me. But thanks again ATSers looking forward to more posts on your board.

America cannot take on anymore immigrants whether they are legal or illegal!

reply to post by Viking9019


Well then take down the statue of liberty then and destroy this plaque on Ellis Island!

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door. "

Better yet don't destroy it, spit on it and defecate on it.



To the OP. You have provided a thought provoking post (to me at least), but the problem I always have with these kinds of threads is that ... well poeple like to complain but no one wants or don't have a solution to fix this problem.

So far these are the so called solutions that have been repeated several times on ATS:

-Build a bigger wall!! And if that fails, build an even bigger wall!!!
-Kill all mexicans! (much trolololo)
-Close the border completely!

Sure they might work in short run, but damn man they'll get expensive to maintain.

I want to see a solution that cuts the root of the problem, not the surface.

Originally posted by muse7
Yeah they did it legally

but did they have to pay $1,000 per application, fill out numerous paperwork, wait 5-12 months and still on top of that there is going to be human error, which may result in you having to repeat the whole process again.

Most illegals come in illegally because they don't have the means to do it legally. You can harp on about how your ancestors came in the "legal" way which was to hop on a ship and arrive at Ellis island, be given a number, a medical checkup and they were good to go.

Do you seriously think that we would have a huge illegal immigration problem, if all they had to do was to get on a bus arrive at DHS checkpoint, be given a medical check up? I think not.

Boo friggin' hooo. I'm out nearly 5 grand with my wife immigrating here LEGALLY from England (oh no, she's white, and must be a devil of some type, right?). We've done EVERYTHING LEGALLY from the first day. This meant that she was in England and I was here, waiting TEN MONTHS for the Nebraska service center to process our paperwork. So, cry me a river for these criminals coming here ILLEGALLY. What gives THEM the right to break the law, while others do the right thing? NOTHING! Deport, deport, deport. Period!

Originally posted by Crowfire
Now I my self am from Idaho and have been hit hard by the effects of the sudden surge of immigration over the past twelve or so years. Especially in my trade of construction.

[sarcasm] That's obviously a lie. They only work on farms, picking lettuce, remember? [/sarcasm]

reply to post by ABWarrior58


completely agree illegal immigrants are a unnecessary strain on the economy. They should be deported and the people who hire them also need to be punished. The only reason this problem goes on is because its been allowed to go on. I encourage everyone to report someone who you think are in this country illegally.

Originally posted by ABWarrior58

Originally posted by VinnyEastside
reply to post by Common Good

 

You are a damn fool if you think American citizens want to work the fields. They wont. They cant afford to work them and that doesnt make Americans lazy or whatever. Come on man you act like this is a mystery. You act like this is an invasion. You probably think minimum wage should be abolished too dont ya? SEIG HEIL

ok you obviously don't have a grasp of english as we've(common good and myself) both stated we weren't just mentionaing feild jobs. Construction, Carpentry, Plumbing, Concrete, Factory jobs, are all jobs illegals have begun to take opver replacing american citizens

edit on 28-6-2011 by ABWarrior58 because: (no reason given)

Maybe you should learn to write English yourself before you flame others.

Originally posted by ABWarrior58

Originally posted by VinnyEastside
reply to post by pcrobotwolf

 

All of you hate mongers are missing the point. Blinded with hate due to inbreeding. They are being hired by AMERICAN CORPORATIONS. Amigo they arent just vacationing here. They are being hired by AMERICAN COMPANIES. Whose fault is it? I thought it was the Unions fault?? Blame the companies as well not just the people. If the work oppurtunies werent here they wouldnt be here.

Im not a hate monger or a racist. I have already have said several times I welcome LEGAL immigrants with open arms. And yes you are right to an extent that american corporations are to blame, just like they are to blame for sending so many jobs over seas

What if you are lets say from a country where your risking a execution or harm to your family members??
Would you not illegally try to immigrate to another country if you had no legal options to do so?
This is actually the case with a quite a few illegal immigrants and I have heard quite a few stories of people being killed after they were sent back.
These people are desperate and dont really care if it is legal or not since it is a matter of life and death in some situations.

I don't defend defend those who immigrate illegally for no real reason though.

Originally posted by James1982
Why is that the problem of Americans? If your child was sick, and your neighbor's child was sick, who would you take care of first, your child, or your neighbor's child?

It's not Canada's problem that some American's can't legally move there to work, just like it's not American's problem that some Mexican's cant legally move here to work.

I feel for these people, I really do. But they are the responsibility of THEIR government and THEIR people, not the government and people of the USA. Why should an American have to give up a job just so an illegal Mexican immigrant can have one? How is that right?

As far as employers that lure illegal immigrants across the border, they should be shut down or heavily fined. I don't like them anymore than I like illegal immigrants coming here. And before you misconstrue that, I don't have a problem with the people themselves. I don't hate someone because they are here illegally. They are humans, they are just doing what they feel is best. But I'm not going to support their actions, when it negatively effects legal American citizens.

So they are not americans problems but them taking american jobs is? So that means they are.

I was just responding to a "do it legally it's simple" post when in fact it isn't. That isn't in any way a problem or something that the US needs to change but it is a fact.

reply to post by daskakik


what i meant by its simple is that its a relatively cut and dry problem. If you want into this country, do it legally regardless of how diffucult it is. Oh lets tale the easy lazy way, is that the kind of people we want in this country?Or how about the people willing to go through the process no matter how tough it may be because they were willing to work hard for it