Atheists, be honest. We know it, you know it.

I'm atheist which means I don't believe in any gods. I don't see what sky has to do with anything, although you're right I deny it doesn't exists, I can clearly see it exists, it's up there with the clouds and such
Also I don't think I have to study the whole Bible to reject Catholicism or Christians of any kind. Based on that one could also said you have study the whole Tora and Koram if you don't want to be a Jew or a Muslim, so your point is void. Or have you study them all and choose the Bible?
And sure, I'm not part of your family. Lucky me

reply to post by reesie45


Just a lot of threads like this one started in the rant section by atheist's and Christian's alike, lately.

reply to post by reesie45


No, these posts are far from uncommon. They pop up on the front page often. The religious folk tend to keep to their own but somehow get reputations of being "belief-pushers" where as the Atheists tend to actually pick fights and post attacks on religions even within religious forums on the site. I have a very good friend who is an Atheist and he spends a lot of his time attacking religion. He has a hate for religion to be honest and its very self destructive (he has lost a lot of friends from personally attacking their beliefs). Many atheists see these attacks as proving their intellectual prowess; more delusional atheists view the attacks as "freeing" people who have been misguided. It makes me sick to see these attacks on ATS, live and let live.

Originally posted by Lionhearte
The real reason you will not believe in Christianity is because it would interfere too much in your daily life. You'll feel like you're being forced to stop drinking and smoking and all the things deemed "wrong" by the Bible that you'll soon start to think that it's nothing more but "control".

i'm sorry to disappoint you. your guess about my motivations are utterly wrong
i've studies most texts in the main judeo-christian traditions, because I think there's some truth in the saying:
"know your enemy".
The real reason why i don't believe in christianity is because my research confirmed what my intuition told me: it's a fake story, manipulated by those in power who could benefit from it. It's a mashup of stories that were in existence already, compiled to support particular reasons.

Originally posted by QpenMinded
I'll just go with this...
You're ignorant sir. First because you assume the only religion that atheist disagree with is Christianity. Second for your entire second paragraph.
Trying to dispute a religious person, such as yourself, intelligently is commonly met with answers like "because God says so." So I won't try. I'll simply say you have a small vision of the universe if you believe your almighty God lives in the clouds above the Earth. That's what the Bible says... Even though modern Christianity uses the King James Bible, which is King Jame's interpretation of the Old Testament.

Christianity now follows a book written by a man who read another book and put it in his own words.

Actually, I take pride in NOT resorting to, "because God says so", simply because I WOULD be falling into a generalization.

Secondly, there is such a thing called symbolism. We don't believe God is an old man with a white beard living above the clouds.

Thirdly, I follow the Hebrew text.

Lastly, as to your original statement.. It's not that I believe the only 'religion' atheists disagree with is Christianity, but they sure make it their number #1 priority on their hit-list. Of course not all of them would do that, that would be stereotyping. I'll admit though I used a rather clever technique and grabbing attention from them, it makes them come out of hiding when seeing a post so "ignorant" as mine.

You see, an Atheist who doesn't fit my description will feel obligated to post and state WHY they don't fall into that generalization, allowing me to better understand them.

Originally posted by morkington
Wow I always try to be respectful to people with different viewpoints to mine but I can't get over the tone of this post.

I'm glad it got your attention.

I cannot conceive of how a person could be so deeply indoctrinated that they genuinely believe that a human being should default to taking as gospel the words of other human beings, written hundreds of years ago, translated, re-versioned and interpreted in many different ways. Not only that but to suggest that if somebody doesn't blindly follow the teachings of this book that they must be doing it out of some kind of selfishness or bad character...it's just so judgemental. I may be wrong but I think Matthew 7:1 may be useful in this circumstance in relation to judging others unfairly. I learnt that from the ganja-chuffing rastafarian Bob Marley.

I follow the Hebrew text, because I got tired of hiring the excuse of "the bible is faulty, translations, mistakes, etc", and found, through research, that there are no contradictions in the Bible.

And to keep this short, I mentioned this already, but I always believed judging is a righteous act, and being judged should NOT cause someone to be ashamed, unless they have something to be guilty of.

If I told a kid he was guilty of stealing my money, (which is the kind of judging the Bible says not to do), without proof, I'm in the wrong. On the kid's part, if he DID steal my money, he would feel resent and ashamed because he has been caught, even if he won't admit that he did it. If he didn't steal my money, what's there to be afraid of?

Truth stands out above all else.

However, the bible does say to judge by the fruit they bare.

I don't happen to believe in your god, but I respect the fact that you believe in him. Either of us may be wrong and we won't know until we die. What I don't respect is your assumption that because you believe in him that you are a better human being than those who don't. If you appreciate irony you may note that the very words in your post are an indicator of weakness of character because they suggest a need for superiority over others. I do not know you as a person and my comment is based only on the words you chose.

Don't get me wrong, I respect all and have profound love for everyone. I don't "hate" gays and wish them death, I don't persecute people because of different beliefs.. I'm not the leader of a gun club who would hunt you down if you disagree.

I'm not a better human. I'm scum, and I have no right to be allowed life. However, I am blessed for what I know and what I went through. However, I completely agree with what you're saying, because you're judging by the fruit I bare, you're basing that off of the first impression I gave you, and I'm actually glad you're willing to think this much into it, because you're exactly the kind of person I'd want to speak to, (note, I apologize if I seemed brass, it's an old technique I used to grab attention to my target audience), because from my discernment, I can tell you're an intelligent person, and would be willing to have a conversation to understand what it is you believe.

So tell me, what do you believe?

Originally posted by Lionhearte

Originally posted by Schkeptick
Lionhearte,

I grew up with a Christian background and did search the Bible backwards & forwards, all by myself.

And it led me to a realization that the myth of Jesus as God just didn't add up. It has too many contradictions within itself & with the God of Abraham. It was too frighteningly similar to earlier pagan religions.

And instead of leading me to atheism, as it has so many others who see the same problems, it led me to belief in the one true God. I guess right now I'm a righteous gentile, maybe. Or simply monotheistic.

You should think about your own faith, too. Most Christians only believe what they've been spoon-fed and know almost nothing about their own faith.

See, that's the thing. I researched my beliefs too, thoroughly, and I still believe every word of it. It's not like I take everything I hear for granted - clearly I wouldn't be on ATS if I did, so it always excites me when I meet someone with different beliefs.

I'm willing to listen to someone talk about what they've researched and what they found, it's not like it'll do me any harm. The truth will stand out, no matter what it is - it may be covered with lies and deceit, but it will never falter.

So, what exactly have you found?

I always have a chuckle when I see these kinds of threads/arguments

I went from pure sin-machine to "christian" back in 1983 at the tender age of 19

my biggest problem (and theirs) was that I read the bible and could think for myself, which led to my departure from their religion (even pentecostals) in the mid 90's

after going through a few denominations I realised that "christianity" is a man made religion and has NOTHING to do with the one true Elohim, YHWH, and his son Yahu'shuah

christianity sucks - its confusing, totally dislocated, and forces dumb rules on good people - and I am saying this after receiving 2 diplomas in ministry.....

to say to a muslim or atheist or bhuddist or mormon or free mason, or any other religion, that they are wrong and should convert to christianity is just one exchange of weak minded slavery for another

there is No Jesus ( hey-zeus ) in the bible, there is no sun-god (sunday) worship, no solstice based christmas or easter, and no mention of praying to mary, saints and no trinity

what can I say? You CAN'T deny the Creator of life exists

you CAN, seek Him, and Find Him, and do your best to Serve Him, (without trying to imagine you are ever good enough to 'earn' His free Salvation through Yahu'shuah)

fellow seekers, do this and live - Yahu'shuah is the Way, the Truth, and the Life - not Christianity

and love your fellow man

"and this is the greatest commandment, to love YHWH ELohim with all your heart, with all your soul, with all you rmind, and the second is like it, to love your neighbour as yourself - do this and you will live" - Rabbi Yahu'shuah

go for it my fellow seekers

Honestly the reason that I do not believe in your religion/deity of choice is the same reason that you do not believe that Thor is real, the same reason that you do not believe that Zeus is real the same reason that you do not believe that Horus is real the same reason that you do not believe that Vishnu is real etc. etc. (disregard this if you believe in all and every deity all at the same time for it does not apply to you.)

Think very carefully why you do not believe in Apollo and why you do believe in your deity of choice (unless of course you worship Apollo).

Have you determined why you disregard other gods/goddesses/deities?

GOOD!

Now apply your reasoning for disregarding other deities and apply it to your own deity of choice and you have just successfully made the transition to Atheism!

You do not believe in 8,645 deities
Atheists do not believe in 8,646 deities

Originally posted by NeverSleepingEyes

Originally posted by Lionhearte
The real reason you will not believe in Christianity is because it would interfere too much in your daily life. You'll feel like you're being forced to stop drinking and smoking and all the things deemed "wrong" by the Bible that you'll soon start to think that it's nothing more but "control".

i'm sorry to disappoint you. your guess about my motivations are utterly wrong
i've studies most texts in the main judeo-christian traditions, because I think there's some truth in the saying:
"know your enemy".
The real reason why i don't believe in christianity is because my research confirmed what my intuition told me: it's a fake story, manipulated by those in power who could benefit from it. It's a mashup of stories that were in existence already, compiled to support particular reasons.

I understand exactly what you mean, but this is precisely why I recommend everyone starts off with a mindset that they are wrong. For one, if you believed yourself to be right, in the end, you're going to find out you were right. Don't take this next analogy the wrong way - but if you were guilty of a crime and were, obviously, found guilty, in your mindset you would find as many ways as you can to prove yourself innocent, because you feared prison. The problem is, when you actually ARE guilty, there's no evidence to prove otherwise, so obviously, the truth would stand out after all.

I do my research as well, I've spent countless hours doing personal research, and many more hours debating against others, and I've tried to disprove my beliefs many times. I could talk about how I believed the grand canyon was formed over millions of years, as it was something I was taught in school - but again, truth has a funny way of sticking out. Then I was taught, "the great flood created the grand canyon, and Noah's ark was real" - "What!", I said to myself, "how can anyone believe in this?"

Turns out, the Huvusapai Indians are just one example of a tribe of Indians who live where the Grand Canyon is today, and they have stories apart of their culture that teach of a great flood that covered the world, which created the Gran Canyon - one example of over 270 stories globally.

Ultimately, Truth stands out above all else. Evidence for Truth exists through all time, and it cannot be kept hidden. I've learned this the hard way, take my word for it.

reply to post by Lionhearte


All right Lionhearte... ill come clean, its time for some honesty from an atheist.

I drink and smoke all the time. I fact, its all i ever do. So much so, that i recently just had a liver transplant, mine was giving out on me. Thank science for the black market The liver came from some kid in Iceland who was part of a loving family. I was delivering blankets covered in small pox to homeless children, when i needed a rest. I met a prostitute a the truck stop, wouldnt you know it, she got pregnant. I demanded she get an abortion, but then figured i could use my daughter as leverage to pay off my gambling debts, so i sold her into sex slavery. I just robbed my parents house because I really need a fix right now. Cocaine is one hell of a drug. Seriously don't do coke, it has seriously messed up with my 3-way homosexual love triangle with Father Rubio and that lovely little alter boy, Jake.

I hope you know i was being grotesquely sarcastic.

Im an Atheist because i have no morals, and i just want to do evil things, and live my life the way i want to. According to you, we all come up short in the eyes of God anyways right? So just accept it... live it up!

Honestly, I became an Atheist after i read the Bible, Koran, Egyptian and Tibetan books of the dead, The Bhagavad Gita. Then i started learning about the world, i studied Philosophy, Psychology, & Biology at university. I read about basic physics and chemistry just for fun. Basically once i began to think, observe, and understand the world, I became an Atheist. Atheism is the lack of belief in a God or the supernatural. So if i dont believe in God, because there is no evidence for the existence of God, why should i have to change my life accordingly out of fear?

Atheism does not mean you are amoral.

The bible does not say you can't have alcohol, obviously even Jesus drank wine. The bible does not say smoking is a sin either. If you smoke tobacco once a week or on special occasions there is little to no chance of it even impacting your lifespan. Nor do all atheists drink and smoke. Surely you can come up with better arguments for your position than that.

reply to post by Lionhearte


religious douchebaggery at its best

I will be honest for you, i don't believe in god because there is no proof of god.. and as a matter of fact there is a ton of proof that jesus was never a person but thats a different subject for a different time

reply to post by Lionhearte


If one is "christian" one does not believe in christianity. One believes in Christ. If you cannot even get this right you should return to that "holy book" and read it a couple of times just enough to find christ instead of christianity.

John

reply to post by Lionhearte


Strangeley, there are more religions in the world than christianity, you are showing your ignorance. On a personal level, i find it odd that god needs someone to speak for him, i.e Jesus, and each 1 of us is responsible for our sins before you start down that line, jesus did not need to die for man so that in future our sins are cleansed, that is rather illogical dont you think?(then it appears you do not because of the last statement you made) that is if you agree that god has complete power?

On a different level, why does god choose to be there just for the jews of the world, they are his chosen people are they not?, this thought process kind of reminds me of the "divide and conquer" type mentallity, TPTB are very good at that and have used it for years. Surely as a race, we are 1 people, perhaps we should start looking at the things each of us have in common rather than trying to create our own little clubs, that is if you agree that god made each of us?

I am responsible for my own behaviour, no one else, actually fyi, i do believe in a god, i just do not think it is what we have been led to believe, too many holes in that 1 i am afraid.

Originally posted by idonotcollectstamps
Honestly the reason that I do not believe in your religion/deity of choice is the same reason that you do not believe that Thor is real, the same reason that you do not believe that Zeus is real the same reason that you do not believe that Horus is real the same reason that you do not believe that Vishnu is real etc. etc. (disregard this if you believe in all and every deity all at the same time for it does not apply to you.)

Think very carefully why you do not believe in Apollo and why you do believe in your deity of choice (unless of course you worship Apollo).

Have you determined why you disregard other gods/goddesses/deities?

GOOD!

Now apply your reasoning for disregarding other deities and apply it to your own deity of choice and you have just successfully made the transition to Atheism!

You do not believe in 8,645 deities
Atheists do not believe in 8,646 deities

Well, for one, I could say that I don't believe in any of those other deities because, for example, Apollo never offered anyone salvation from Sin, he merely pulled the Sun across the sky, and I think we all know how the Sun works today.

The problem with this, is that we're deleting God and replacing Him with Nature. Thousands of years ago, people would credit God to everything, rightfully so, when they didn't understand how it worked. Now, with Science at an all-time high, we're understanding our universe more than ever, and attributing it all to Nature... why? Just because something can be explained 'naturally' disproves God? That doesn't make sense. How do we know that ISN'T the way God works?

I know I sounded like I was getting a bit off track there, sorry about that. Anyways, that number is more like 2870 'deities' recorded since 4,000 bc, there's not enough accurate information before that, so it's all we can go by.

Anyways, of those, the Judaism and Christian God are the same, Yahweh and God, (the Islamic God is different, even if it claims to be the God of Abraham, it's not the same).

So, 2,868.

Out of all those..

Which ones teach that there is no one good, not even one?
Which ones have accurate, historical information?
Which ones can be proven to be legitimate with 'science', today?
Which ones offer a person relationship with their deities?
Which ones teach to love their fellow man, and not to kill them because of their beliefs?
Which ones prophecy of future events, especially ones that have already come true, and can be proven?
Which ones have zero flaws or contradictions in their respected, 'holy books'?

You're list will get short, very, very fast, and that isn't the half of it.

Jeez, can't even go to the bathroom without missing several posts, going to have to catch up.

Originally posted by ztruthseeker
reply to post by Lionhearte

 

Im an Atheist because i have no morals, and i just want to do evil things, and live my life the way i want to. According to you, we all come up short in the eyes of God anyways right? So just accept it... live it up!

Heh, I think you're missing the point. Of course no one is righteous, but we do have morals. We do have laws. All that is commanded from God is to love Him, and to love your fellow man. Sin is not something we (christians) are bound to anymore. Repent means a desire to change, and that's where it starts.

Originally posted by 0001391
The bible does not say you can't have alcohol, obviously even Jesus drank wine. The bible does not say smoking is a sin either. If you smoke tobacco once a week or on special occasions there is little to no chance of it even impacting your lifespan. Nor do all atheists drink and smoke. Surely you can come up with better arguments for your position than that.

The Bible says not to get drunk, obviously a drink or too isn't going to damn you to hell. The Bible also warns against addiction, but it also wants you to take care of your body, for it's the temple of Christ. My examples were just that, examples.

Originally posted by behindXtheXveil
reply to post by Lionhearte

 

religious douchebaggery at its best

I will be honest for you, i don't believe in god because there is no proof of god.. and as a matter of fact there is a ton of proof that jesus was never a person but thats a different subject for a different time

Actually, there's lots of proof, from my view. The first step would be validating the Bible, which can be done in numerous ways. I'm actually more interested in the proof you have that Jesus was not a real person, if you'd care to share that with me.

Originally posted by brommas
reply to post by Lionhearte

 

Strangeley, there are more religions in the world than christianity, you are showing your ignorance. On a personal level, i find it odd that god needs someone to speak for him, i.e Jesus, and each 1 of us is responsible for our sins before you start down that line, jesus did not need to die for man so that in future our sins are cleansed, that is rather illogical dont you think?(then it appears you do not because of the last statement you made) that is if you agree that god has complete power?

Actually, no, I don't understand what you mean. Why is it illogical that Jesus would need to die for our Sins? The Law was perfect, but man was flawed and could not fulfill the law, so Jesus came and did it for us. The only one to die without Sin, offers up his spirit to live inside those who would accept Him, so that when one dies, God does not see a sinful man standing at the gates, full of corruption and sin, instead, he says His Son, and welcomes Him into Heaven.

On a different level, why does god choose to be there just for the jews of the world, they are his chosen people are they not?, this thought process kind of reminds me of the "divide and conquer" type mentallity, TPTB are very good at that and have used it for years. Surely as a race, we are 1 people, perhaps we should start looking at the things each of us have in common rather than trying to create our own little clubs, that is if you agree that god made each of us?

What do you mean, "God chooses to be there just for the jews of the world"? If I understand it correctly, God is there for all of mankind. Honestly, though, I love all men and women, I simply hate what they do, the Sin.

I am responsible for my own behaviour, no one else, actually fyi, i do believe in a god, i just do not think it is what we have been led to believe, too many holes in that 1 i am afraid.

Here's the thing, responsibility can be a heavy burden. No one can live the perfect life, not us Humans. We need an intercessor, someone to stand up for us.

Originally posted by Lionhearte

Out of all those..

Which ones teach that there is no one good, not even one?
Which ones have accurate, historical information?
Which ones can be proven to be legitimate with 'science', today?
Which ones offer a person relationship with their deities?
Which ones teach to love their fellow man, and not to kill them because of their beliefs?
Which ones prophecy of future events, especially ones that have already come true, and can be proven?
Which ones have zero flaws or contradictions in their respected, 'holy books'?

You're list will get short, very, very fast, and that isn't the half of it.

1. How does that prove anything about Christianity's veracity?
2. Like bats being birds? lol
3. See answer to #2.
4. To me, that's a strike against Christianity. Why would a god want a personal relationship with mortals?
5. A lot do, actually.
6. The prophecies that I've seen used to prove the Bible are always like Nostradamus quatrains. Always.
7. See answer to #2.

Abraham is my hero

"and Abraham believed YHWH, and it was accredited to him as rigteousness"

simple, easy, and not distorted by religion (which didn't seem to exist then)

go Abraham go - I wish I could sire children at 135 years old!!!!

lolol

reply to post by Lionhearte


Its very immature and ignorant of you to think you know the reasons why a person does not believe in the same God as you.

Invitation declined.

reply to post by Lionhearte

dude if you can find a passage in there where it states it is evil to drink or smoke, you are reading a different version of that fairy tale book than the others out there who need a big imaginary friend in the clouds to help them deal with their day to day lives. the closest thing in the bible is the whole body is a temple line. jesus drank and miraculously made WINE from water... and then there is that whole all things are there to use except that one pesky tree that the woman couldn't keep her greedy fingers off of and now I'M a sinner because of something done 5000+years ago. dang your god sure got himself a temper there, huh? maybe he could use some anger management courses... but according to the bible, you can legally in his eyes rape your enemies wives and murder their children. as well as have sex with your daughters if their hubby don't live... sounds like every rednecks dream religion. wake up and understand that you have been duped by a group that is more interested in keeping their 10% flowing so they can squander it on buggering little boys and such. Or to stop that poor woman who was raped from getting that sinful abortion and "killing a child" that will forever remind her of the pain and trauma that she had to endure because your "god" said go forth and multiply (again) 5000+ years ago. what about the fact that most wars ever fought were over religion to see whos pecker was bigger. popes with daughters murder IN CHURCH HIERARCHY to get the way of whatever power-hungry sexually deviant big-wig happens to be doing the plotting... do you get the point yet? if this is the kind of stuff that our 'God' wants us to do, then we are better off cursing the name of Jehovah, Allah, or whatever crazy arsed thing you happen to follow, and striking out on our own as independent thinking people that everybody was born as and stop letting old repressed men in dresses and waving crosses in out faces and talking in tongues give you your sense of morality. thou shalt not steal, kill, rape, murder, and so many other things. these are just common things that every person on this earth should believe in as wrong things to do. what im saying is this GROW UP AND LET OTHERS HAVE THEIR OWN BELIEF SYSTEMS, even if that means the system is void of a fluffy bearded guy on a cloud. yours sounds just as ridiculous to me as im sure mine would to you. just grow the heck up brother.