Presidential Security Clearance

Originally posted by bzap
I have always thought that if you became the President of the United States that you automatically received the highest level of security clearance possible. But, somewhere I recently read on ATS that even the President doesn't have access to some places including Area 51.

As teh guy said in Independance Day " Plausable Deniablity" the president may not want to know everything. If the president wanted to land at Area 51 or any other base, I doubt that anybody would be able to stop him.

I just read a report from an ex-51 worker and it stated that when the president came he was not taken into any highly-secret areas because he doesn't actually have the clearance to see it.

Originally posted by bzap
I just read a report from an ex-51 worker and it stated that when the president came he was not taken into any highly-secret areas because he doesn't actually have the clearance to see it.

It's not the clearance, its the need to know. For example, a worker at Los Alamos with a Top Secret Clearance wouldn't have access to, for example, Top Secret SIOP information - because they have no need to know.

One of the strongest aspects of the classification system is only allowing the smallest possible number of people access.

I think it�s straight impossible that the president doesn�t have the clearance for all secrets. Why?

He is the highest commander of the armed forces. So if someone in the forces is preventing him the clearance he can simply order him to give the clearance.

If someone not military denies him access, he can simply use an executive order (like the one that allows area 51 break virtually all laws).

And if this order is not followed, the president could task the armed forces to enforce access to the buildings.

That is an interesting way to look at it, but remember that the President is only a politician someone who makes speaches etc... The powers that be are people like Secretary of State, Defense, High Military Generals, and so on. If they don't want the President to know about something, he won't.

OK, they might not tell him, but if he asks, they all have to answer him.

You guys need to remember that during WWII the president was not even told about the possibility of nuclear weapons until they went to him to get the OK to drop one.

Originally posted by orion911
You guys need to remember that during WWII the president was not even told about the possibility of nuclear weapons until they went to him to get the OK to drop one.

Rooesevelt knew about it from the beginning after all Einstein did write him the letter saying it was possible. I believe you're thinking of Truman who was only told after he became President not when he was the VP.

Didn't Clinton ask the relevent people about Rosswell and they said it never happened. So if you believe that Rosswell did happen then the president isn't given the top clearance. I mean these programs run for decades under many different presidents. These guys only have finite careers so for the rest of their private life they are a security risk.

I can tell you for a fact that the POTUS has NO CLUE of about 95% of the classified research and development projects going on inside the DoD and intelligence community.

Most of that stuff doesn't go any higher that the SECDEF, DCI, or the 1/2 dozen or so briefed members of Congress.

The POTUS would only be briefed if the technology was politically risky, internationally illegal, a quantum leap over our adversaries, or required alot of money that he would have to actively lobby for.

the pres is only in office 4 to 8 barring assanation or not getting realecded.
would you really tell anything to a man/woman that wont keep there mouth shut after their out of office(Bill Clinton)?

Originally posted by Pyros
I can tell you for a fact that the POTUS has NO CLUE of about 95% of the classified research and development projects going on inside the DoD and intelligence community.

Most of that stuff doesn't go any higher that the SECDEF, DCI, or the 1/2 dozen or so briefed members of Congress.

The POTUS would only be briefed if the technology was politically risky, internationally illegal, a quantum leap over our adversaries, or required alot of money that he would have to actively lobby for.

I would like to know what FACTS your reply is based on. Anyone can throw out some official acronyms to lend credence to their statement. Seems like your are trying to sound more official to mask the lack of facts. 95% sounds too high to be accurate.

Bottom line:

The Prez knows a lot. Maybe not every detail but he knows a lot and so do the people around him. For everything, we may think we know about the black world that we discuss here and the rumors that perpetuate the pres knows 100's more just like it. It is the occasional side projects that people at the NRO and DARPA have that would make you go numb for a sec.

I could be wrong though, I have been before.

I have always thought that the President has clearance for about anything, but he is so busy that unless there is a major reason for attention to a project, he doesn't really know about it. Need to know as far as details go seems to be a major factor.

Here is some info:

Got Clearance? Get a job!

Here is a revealing site:

EPSQ SSBI Security Officer Edition

And go to a university where you can get security clearance:

www.jfsc.ndu.edu...

I am not sure the president would be able to keep a secret. Look what happend to Valorie Plame. Her carrer, plus anyone else that worked for the CIA Cover Company where she was employed were wrecked by someone with a high level security clearance in the white house.

If you were in a position to give anyone a security clearence would you do so if he said something like: "Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we," Bush said. "They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."

(What he really meant of course was that we never stop thinking about new ways they might harm our country so we can prevent it.)

But on that basis alone who needs a basic english grammar book, bravo you are our lord of plausible deniability! Here's your pass to go meet Victor the space alien at Area 51! While you are at it go look at the underground bases too! Go meet the 8 foot tall reptoids! And by all means take a short hop to Mars for a few hours, and go see the little remote control things on the surface, heck they would make a great picture for your next campaign after they, ahem WE repeal the 22nd Amendment. You can return to Washington DC by way of our underground supersonic transit train corridor too! We can still plausibly deny everything later! Go ahead Mr. President say whatever you want, so what if people care too much about it, people just fill in the blanks anyway!

[edit on 24-7-2005 by SkipShipman]

I have a strong feeling that Bush Sr. knew a whole lot more than most of the Presidents before him
because of his position at the CIA.

We know that the hidden black budget exceeds a trillion dollars, but there is never full accountablility.

It's quite possible that what we are experiencing now may be driven by a power struggle between
the known government and the black budget government within.

If Dubya messes things up too much more, I could see where "they" would find a way to relieve him
of his duties.

There are many high ranking officials that are becoming increasingly disturbed by the drastic
measures this administration has used to "classify" so much information.

I'm not sure what to think.

There are many high ranking officials that are becoming increasingly disturbed by the drastic

Do you mean high ranking officials outside the black government?

Originally posted by American Mad Man
It's called need to know basis. Why the hell does the president need to know what is being worked on? It is easy to keep a secret if few people know about something, so only those that MUST know, do know. Plus, ask China and Clinton what happens when the president knows some secrets and needs money for his reelection

Exactly. Presidents come and go, and once they're gone, they've got alot of their life to get bored with. Let's just say they learned from Kenedy not to tell the President too much.

The President is too busy forgiving debts from other nations, spending our tax dollars as if he was the one whom owned the press' and has little time set aside in his day to be bothered with all the new toys the DOD, NSA,CIA, and the others are making under the Black Ops big tent.

Originally posted by ignorance is a plenty
I could be wrong though, I have been before.

Yep.

Well maybe the 95% is an exaggeration, but maybe it's not. As you said, it's impossible to verify without the facts. But since the facts would be secret, you couldn't verify them without having a clearance, and anyone with a clearance is not going to tell you in a public forum like this unless they need to for some political reason to protect themselves or their job.

In the modern media age we seem to assume that the public opinion and the public news media is God. And so of course the president MUST know all of the secrets.

As many of the other poster's have mentioned, this is not true. Part of this is simply to protect the president, and part of this is to get some work done.

Have you ever worked on a new technology? If everyone was always nosing around like a bunch of UFO fanatics you would never have any time to get any work done.

It's well known in the engineering community (do a search on any engineering job posting board for example) that there are at least three clearance levels. The highest level (Top Secret) has many further sub-categories. There's probably a further level of hierarchy beyond that that is not publicly known.

The President does not need to know the details. There is an entire section of the defense and intelligence budget (the black budget) that is not itemized. We only know the total amount spent, but do not have any details about how much is spent on which subcategory.

It would not make sense for public figures to give away secrets. Public figures who have previously been involved in these departments understand the fine details and know what to say and what not to say.

Periodically projects are declassified or are brought to the attention of POTUS (President Of The United States) when it is necessary. The reasoning is quite simple. To avoid the mass hysteria of the public, the public does not need to know about the threats.

Does that mean we are kept in the blind? Yes. Is that right? Well that's the way the government operates. Since we are a free society, we have reporters that wander around and occasionally go too far.

The interesting ethical dilemma right now with the Valerie Plame case is the following. Do reporters have to break their vow of journalistic privacy (which is how they get their information) in the interests of national security?

A similar issue is being raised with the John Roberts nomination. Do lawyers have to break their attorney client priviledge in the interests of national security?

Same for doctors, for that matter. How far does the "in the interests of national security" go? It has never really been itemized entirely.