content control and thread promotion on ATS : 100% distraction

New member here but long time lurker, i signed up to say that i too have noticed a transition in thread topics, Its seems to me that conspiracy theories revolve around lateral thinking (that why i personally enjoy reading them) however in recent times it seems most of the threads on the home page are very linear.

I think this either shows a natural change in the psyche of ATS users (maybe caused by an influx of people who joined the site because they saw coverage of it and therefore may not be used to thinking laterally and so post two dimensional topics) or an active attempt to 'dumb down / sabotage' the ATS user base by not only portraying a false image of ATS to new users (and the MSM) but also by hiding any threads that might encourage creative exploration.

I can't help but feel that any, if not all of the topics that make it to the front page are influenced with the press of a button from random mod's. I don't feel like the users at ATS have any power in which thread makes it to the front page. It doesn't matter how many stars or flags the OP or thread get, it's all up to the mod's whos thread gets to see the front page.

Originally posted by SelfSustainedLoner
if not all of the topics that make it to the front page are influenced with the press of a button from random mod's.

As stated previously in this thread, that's not how it works.

I don't feel like the users at ATS have any power in which thread makes it to the front page.

Also previously described in this thread. Members have the only power for determining home page content.

Hussein and the scientist are first of many ,and we must all realize these are fakes and a complete waste of our time. If more come i will be sure to ruin and discredit them as much and as quickly as possible.

I've been around for awhile and I don't think what you are seeing op is intentional. What you are seeing is the degredation of the site as membership has grown. It seems that like soup, the more members you add, the thinner the content becomes.

Something is a miss on this site and has been since they changed the design. Similar to what happened to Digg. I don't really post here anymore it just became too muddled. I don't know about infiltration or if the admins just felt they could make more money by obscuring certain content. We will never really know because they would just deny it anyway.

They will see though just like Digg did that visits to the site will plummet. I really liked ATS once upon a time. Not so much anymore.

I would suggest making flags cost stars...like 100 stars for a flag...that way a person doesn't just randomly flag anything with a cool headline, but instead considers the topic, reads a bit, tries to sort out if its a quality thread to begin with...then deciding to "Spend" their stars.

Sure, there will be a lot less flags, but it will at least start to push forward quality threads moreso than just flashy headlines.

The content control is in the members hands, as SO pointed out, so...lets make the members control their random flag of all things sparkly

reply to post by SaturnFX


Or how about stars cost 10 ATS points and flags cost 20?

Originally posted by IPILYA
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Or how about stars cost 10 ATS points and flags cost 20?

Don't know...but the concept of creating a "information currency, or quality currency" may be the solution..

Personally I like the star thing (never sure how the damn points work)..but with a person whom has stars, you know at the very least he has contributed some good posts here and there and so is probably going to read a bit of the thread before spending his stars to flag a thread..

But ya, if its a good idea, then one of the admins will consider it and the logistics of implementating a system like that...even if only a trial run for a few months and see if quality starts being pushed forward

Originally posted by Beefcake

They will see though just like Digg did that visits to the site will plummet. I really liked ATS once upon a time. Not so much anymore.

It IS a likely unintended consequence that in the pursuit of popularity, the long term viability of the site will be lessened. Its not uncommon in many business models that when what made a company popular to begin with is abandoned, (quality, customer service, etc) you get a period of continued growth based on past reputation for a period, and then the new reputation takes hold and you see popularity fall off.

But, the owners may not care. They are older, and they may just want to rake it in while the raking is good and then dump the site off on some large corporate buyer who doesnt realize its in terminal decline. Or, they may at some point hire some people to drag in enough quality to keep the site viable.

Originally posted by SaturnFX


Don't know...but the concept of creating a "information currency, or quality currency" may be the solution..

I think that "applause" was supposed to fulfill that function, but the mods dont really applaud "quality" as much as they do just what any other member does with their stars. They applaud what they like. Quality be damned.

And Im not debating that with any lurking mods, either, fyi. I always go read what has been applauded, and by whom, and I have NEVER once been given applause by a mod who opposes my position in general, (knowing their posting habits and preferred topics) and I HAVE received applause for very minimal posts which really didnt involve any real effort on my part for research, etc., but which supported the mods position.

They are human, in other words, and they like virtually everyone, only applaud what they like, and who they like, and so as a "quality rewarder" its useless.

reply to post by XmikaX

AMEN!! So glad you posted this. Was gonna post something similar but just decided not to. It was that "I am a Scientist" that set me off for the reasons you stated.

Quite looking forward to the answer.

I quite like the developing look and feel...its not done randomly, its done through analysis and convenience.

One of the issues with long term memberships is that they tend to get comfortable with a specific design, format, etc...and when things change, even for the better, there is grumblings and such.

This website was launched in what...02? imagine if there was no change since then...it would be as disasterous as many failed older forums out there that didn't change and improve.

You can argue, did the change come from the people growing, or did the people grow because of the change...either way, it makes no difference. small to big sites with user content requires changing in order to keep up with the wider demographics..

The only thing really missing at this point that needs to be looked into seriously is the point of this thread...aka, content control...and although I am often quite sure of myself, I do think the idea I posted above (about flags costing stars or something) may be a good solution...not the only good solution, but one that is self maintained by the community verses tireless swarms of ops giving their singular opinion on promotion...

reply to post by XmikaX


I think another thread just got stars and flags like this one.....and guess what....seems as if the same thread is being ranted about. Right here....and I wasted a total of ten minutes reading this one and that one.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I do understand what you are saying and believe me I too spend more time looking through bullSh8* than I do reading topics of interest!!

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander

Originally posted by SaturnFX


Don't know...but the concept of creating a "information currency, or quality currency" may be the solution..

I think that "applause" was supposed to fulfill that function, but the mods dont really applaud "quality" as much as they do just what any other member does with their stars. They applaud what they like. Quality be damned.

Right...well, I have gotten several applause's from ATS and I count that fairly meaningless overall.. Yes, they tend to clap on things well written that also is in line with their personal point of view. I have in the past written some concepts quite well that recieved a las vegas showtime amount of stars and it was passed over because the mods monitering the thread opposed my stance overall, or simply was impartial...

and its just behind the scenes head petting anyhow...

Stars are where its at...it means you actually wrote something worthwhile...and to me, that is the currency of ATS moreso than points (?), flags, or applause.

Basically, people like Phage, Zorgon, etc...the big contributors of quality on ATS and what they gain a lot of...and yep, thats stars. (I have a ton, but thats because I offer a dollar for each star given...I am small like that )

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Stars are where its at...it means you actually wrote something worthwhile...and to me, that is the currency of ATS moreso than points (?), flags, or applause.

Stars do not mean you wrote something "worthwhile" in an objective sense. What you (and not "you" personally) wrote might be utter hogwash, and factually incorrect, or even total deliberate fiction, and still receive an avalanche of stars. Stars just mean you wrote something POPULAR. That people liked. That supported their existing beliefs, or created in them a new belief that they are pleased with.

Thats "worthwhile" to the owners. Because popularity drives their income. But it isnt necessarily "quality" in any way outside of "popularity."

If you are looking for popularity, then yes, stars are the currency of ATS. Its your best gauge of how well the membership likes you and your posts or threads. Myself, Im not really concerned with popularity. Im more interested in truth, to the degree to which we can know it, and facts, as far as we can determine them, and on ATS, those are only marginally popular with the majority of the members.

reply to post by SaturnFX


Thing about stars is quotient between posts and stars , bigger quotient more valuable posts from members , for example mister.old.school ( www.abovetopsecret.com...) have 356 posts and 8478 stars ... overall one post of him gets 24,5 stars ,or maybe he was offering more money than you for a star?

On topic ..this thread is complete waste of time and BS... obviosly OP doesnt know how this site is functioning.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


Objectively, nothing in the history of mankind is worthy...yes, popular

and it is the popularity of the site that attracts people...therefore, ya...stars is still the answer.

As a liberal atheist white man, I am pretty much hated by most in some form around here, however, I have made a few stars because even in a sea of opposition, people did see quality in my posts here and there...whereas others whom are the typical libertarian christian paranoid have not reached near my amount in double the time here because they don't really express more than just the most simple concepts or remarks...

So, I think overall, stars are a better register on what constitutes for quality on this website...not objectively, but subjective quality and popularity in viewpoint.

make sense?

and anyhow, its a start...not saying it is a perfect solution, but better than no controls and just random newbies flagging everything that seems cool, or anything by a specific person, etc...(also encourages people to post quality posts to harvest stars verses just random smacking down of words on the screen)

Originally posted by xavi1000
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Thing about stars is quotient between posts and stars , bigger quotient more valuable posts from members , for example mister.old.school ( www.abovetopsecret.com...) have 356 posts and 8478 stars ... overall one post of him gets 24,5 stars ,or maybe he was offering more money than you for a star?

Thing is, check out the members by stars (tools / members/ then sort by stars)
Look at the top 10...they are all really great contributors (except for boondock, he clearly paid someone off )

But overall, over time, they do (I feel) show value...now, the thing is, people of value, in this concept, would be ones that could flag more...yet again, look at the names in decending order and you will see responsible and mature "flaggers"...I don't think phage randomly flags any thread that looks cool, nor dimentdetc, etc...)

ya, people have fans that will star someone simply out of friendship or because they have a view similar to their own, but over the long run, quality wins over circle of friends.

The last great conspiracy master last logged on in july 2009 (mikesingh). This is now a website for discussing "out-of-the-ordinary" news and sometimes, conspiracies. I noticed a while ago that the stars and flags were not working as intended, and threads which deserved to be on the front page were passed over (admittedly I have never really contributed much to this website, looking back on threads I made makes me laugh at their poor quality). Although a great effort was made by the ATS staff to discourage one line responses and replies that generally add nothing to the thread (but ones own opinion), that idea seems to have been scrapped. Now I rarely read past the first page because it just seems tedious to pour over every comment to find one that adds more to the thread.

I don't blame the owners or mods for the change, ATS just grew so much that it had to change to accommodate the growing visitors. Overall the format of the website is still the same, and ATS is still the best alternative news website. I just really miss those ol' conspiracy threads.