So Who Can Help Me With These 2012 Questions?

So I was talking to friend yesterday and a discussion about 2012 came up. He told me some of his theories on 2012 and why the world "IS" going to end. Here are some things he talked about :

Planet Alignment
Mayan Calendar
CME's
Human Race Being "Overdue"
Asteroid Impacts
Imminent Ice Age

I came here because after being on ATS for about 1 year, (Then just making an account not too long ago) I figured you intellectual badasses (Thats a compliment) could help me out. I've did some research of my own, not sure if its 100% true though, so heres my take.

"Planet alignments" happen all the time - I know this, though I have no examples.

"Mayan Calendar" does end and then starts a new cycle - Again, not 100% sure, this is what I've researched.

"CME's (Coronal Mass Ejections)" These happen all the time too right? Every 11 years there is just one bigger than usual.

"Human race being overdue" - Going to need some help on this one, I had no clue what he meant. Although he said every species has a limited amount of time on the planet (Dinosaurs?)

"Asteroid Impacts" - I told him (Tried to debunk his theory on this one) that once a asteroid gets in the solar system, with the technology we have, we can spot it before it gets too close to the planet. (Am I right?)

"Imminent Ice Age" - Didn't really know what to say to this one. I don't think we should expect an Ice Age any time soon. (Am I wrong again?)

******I know it may seem like I just want all the information spoon fed to me, but really I do do the research, and I am just looking for confirmation. Thanks in advance******

the only one of those I see as being a potential factor is the coronal ejection / solar flare, which can fry electrical stuff.
thing is, it happened in 1859, frying the telegraph system, and no one then was quite sure why.

"Coronal mass ejections, along with solar flares of other origin, can disrupt radio transmissions and cause damage to satellites and electrical transmission line facilities, resulting in potentially massive and long-lasting power outages.[4]" en.wikipedia.org...



I'd be more worried about earthquakes (New Madrid, San Andrea, Yellowstone) and man-made economic collapse.

it's always something :-)

"Planet alignments" happen all the time - I know this, though I have no examples.

Besides, there is no planetary alignment on December 21, 2012. I have no idea about any other time of the year (there's bound to be a couple, at least), but, then, there are no "end of the world" scenarios currently pertaining to any other time of the year.
The "event" associated with December 21, 2012, is a supposed galactic alignment, between the earth, the sun, and center of the galaxy. However, this event is not focused on that date. The "alignment" is a 38-year event, and 2012 will be the 33rd year (the end of the "alignment" being in around 2017). Nothing special related to this "alignment" occurs on December 21, 2012.
The only celestial significance with that date is, it's the winter solstice. But, then, as I'm sure you've noticed, that happens every year.

"Mayan Calendar" does end and then starts a new cycle - Again, not 100% sure, this is what I've researched.

No, it doesn't. The Mayan calendar "ends" at some point around 2012 (possibly December 21, 2012, but there are other theories), but, of course, their calendar had to end at some point - they had a limited amount of rock to chisel it out on. The Mayans predicted nothing spectacular concerning 2012. And, even if they had, should we really be trusting the predictive skills of the Mayans?

"CME's (Coronal Mass Ejections)" These happen all the time too right? Every 11 years there is just one bigger than usual.

Coronal Mass Ejections do, indeed, happen all the time. And, yep, they follow a cycle, getting steadily worse, before dropping off, and then, eventually, picking up again. The sun has been producing CMEs (and solar flares, which are two different phenomenon) for a long time.

"Human race being overdue" - Going to need some help on this one, I had no clue what he meant. Although he said every species has a limited amount of time on the planet (Dinosaurs?)

The dinosaurs, for example, lived for over 160 million years. How long have humans been around? 200,000 years? A couple million years, if you include our most distant ancestors?
Taking all extinction level events into account, the average time between such events seems to be around 28 million years.
Humans are "overdue" for nothing.

"Asteroid Impacts" - I told him (Tried to debunk his theory on this one) that once a asteroid gets in the solar system, with the technology we have, we can spot it before it gets too close to the planet. (Am I right?)

Typically, we can spot it, but the possibility does exist that one could escape detection. But, then, once we detect an asteroid heading for us, what can we realistically do about it?

"Imminent Ice Age" - Didn't really know what to say to this one. I don't think we should expect an Ice Age any time soon. (Am I wrong again?)

Well, no significant Ice Age (or period of glaciation) is expected, but there is a possibility that we could soon be heading into a mini ice age, much like the Little Ice Age of a couple centuries ago. The Little Ice Age, which led to relatively cold temperatures and wet conditions around the world (and, especially, in Europe) for centuries, was most likely sparked, at least partially, by an extended period of solar inactivity (the Maunder Minimum), during which the sun generated little to no sun spots. The sun now appears to be entering another such period of inactivity. What will happen this time, however, is unclear, as other factors may be in play.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have a stockpile of parkas to get started on...

reply to post by Vandettas

"CME's (Coronal Mass Ejections)" These happen all the time too right? Every 11 years there is just one bigger than usual.

every 11 yrs..the sun flips its poles..BUT every 100 yrs or so the Sun goes into a solar minimum which like a spring tightened too much its goes BOINGGGGGG and release a tsunami of radiation

last time it happened is way back 1859...were all the telegraphic wires were burnt..

there is evidence the next solar cycle will be a replica of the 1859 event...

geomagnetic storm of 1859, for instance, occurred during a solar cycle of about the same size we’re predicting for 2013

science.nasa.gov...


AND ..

we have to add a breach in the magnetosphere discovered by NASA 3 times the size of Earth...our shields our down..

Giant Breach in Earth's Magnetic Field Discovered

AND....

we depend on modern technology now like never before

some more info right here..

Solar Maximum with Minimum Sun Spot Activity = 1859 Event?


regarding the ice age..

ur friend was quiet right too..

this graph speaks on its own



sry but were have you been???

regarding the mayans...he was right again..

they calculated when we will be passing the dark rift...

you can read some of my posts here..

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by heineken

we have to add a breach in the magnetosphere discovered by NASA 3 times the size of Earth...our shields our down..

Giant Breach in Earth's Magnetic Field Discovered

As you say, that was 3 years ago, and it was a temporary breach, just like all of those that happened before, and those that continue to happen. How long have we been measuring the magnetosphere? And, considering that limited observation, what are the chances that this breach is unusual?
That's not to say they don't have an effect, but it's nothing we haven't experienced, and survived, many times before.

regarding the ice age..

ur friend was quiet right too..

this graph speaks on its own

That graph covers a vast span of time. If the current temperature decrease follows the historical trend (which it probably will), then we're looking at a 5 degree drop over the next 10,000 years. That's 4 hundredths of a degree over the course of a lifetime.

The potential "mini ice age" - that I mentioned - is much more immediate.

what happens when your calandar runs out ?

you get a new one

2012 is silly

don't be silly

reply to post by CLPrime


Thanks for that. I thought the Mayan calendar ends and then restarts. Good thing I made sure.

Also, mini ice age? Again, never even heard of that so thats something I'll keep in mind also.

reply to post by Vandettas


it does restart...

but the mayans say it will be a new start..a different world..

you better take this seriously since those who perish are those not prepared

thank the cosmos there will be little people left to discuss with...many trolls will be gone for good

reply to post by CLPrime


can you provide some links that proof breach like this one is common??

regarding th ice core data graph..a drop of 10 deg is more than enough to see many of us begging for food...there is no need for the temp to go down to the bottom where very but very little life will remain on the planet

I'm going to recommend John Major Jenkins' "Galactic Alignment" rather than get into particulars I am not an expert in. This book does a very good, scholarly job of explaining the Mayan calendar as well as showing resonances with other ancient cultures, building a very solid argument for the "signposts" for 2012. What it doesn't do is answer exactly what will happen. I would be wary of anyone's work that does.

reply to post by joechip


In my opinion, all the 2012 prophecy talk and stuff is just the desperation of religious freaks trying to prove their religion. Nothing regarding 2012 is backed up by facts. Nothing.

Originally posted by heineken
reply to post by CLPrime

 

can you provide some links that proof breach like this one is common??

Can you provide some links that prove that breaches like this one are not common?
No, you can't. But there's a reason. We haven't been measuring enough of the magnetosphere for long enough time to know what's common and what's not.
And, for that exact same reason, my answer to your question is also 'No'.

regarding th ice core data graph..a drop of 10 deg is more than enough to see many of us begging for food...there is no need for the temp to go down to the bottom where very but very little life will remain on the planet

Though, you'll notice, I said a 5 degree drop. That's what the drop has been in the past, and that's what it's likely to be again. And that 5 degree drop is over a period of 10,000 years - which, as I said, is 0.04 degrees over a typical lifetime. We don't need to worry about it...yet. And it certainly doesn't pertain to the thread, which concerns next year.

Originally posted by Vandettas
"Planet alignments" happen all the time - I know this, though I have no examples.

The term, "alignment" is misleading. It is taken to mean "in a line when you look at them from a viewpoint on Earth." They are hundreds of thousands of miles from each other and if you stood on one of the other planets and looked at the setup, they're not in alignment.

Also, the "alignment with a galactic center" is misleading. The galactic center is vast. Earth is tiny. That's like saying "I'm in alignment with New York City."

"Mayan Calendar" does end and then starts a new cycle - Again, not 100% sure, this is what I've researched.

Correct, and there are dates on monuments that are farther in the future. The "Mayan Calendar" is actually three calendars of different numbers of days, and they synchronize every 3600 years.

"CME's (Coronal Mass Ejections)" These happen all the time too right? Every 11 years there is just one bigger than usual.

Yes, and yes. Huge CMEs have little impact on us. They've been going on since the beginning of the sun.

"Human race being overdue" - Going to need some help on this one, I had no clue what he meant. Although he said every species has a limited amount of time on the planet (Dinosaurs?)

If you're using dinosaurs as an example, human beings have about 230 million years of time left. Even as a species, homo sapiens is only about a million years old at the outside. Hominids have been around for about 6 million years.

And we've never had a species on the planet before that was capable of modifying things and making high technology. Nothing else has hands. Nothing else has the great brain to body mass.

"Asteroid Impacts" - I told him (Tried to debunk his theory on this one) that once a asteroid gets in the solar system, with the technology we have, we can spot it before it gets too close to the planet. (Am I right?)

Meteoroids are probably what's meant. Asteroids don't leave the asteroid belt. Some meteoroids larger than a house slip by us but our methods of detecting are getting better. We don't detect tiny ones but we do find larger ones. And Earth is constantly being bombarded by them -- we have a number of meteor showers every year and they've been going on... since the Earth began.

"Imminent Ice Age" - Didn't really know what to say to this one. I don't think we should expect an Ice Age any time soon. (Am I wrong again?)

Okay... I'm doing some work for the Audubon Society on environment and mapping. Ice Ages don't just suddenly happen. The Earth's climate is so complex that you need a lot of supercomputers just to model it fairly accurately (and then it's only accurate to a few kilometers or so).

People confuse weather with climate. So, there's always a "we had cold weathers the past 5 years, therefore there's no climate warming. But if you go back into old diaries of farmers and gardeners, you find that patterns indicate a warming world. We're seeing invasive species here in Texas that couldn't survive the climate that we had in the 1960's (too cool for them) and they are pushing further north. Tree lines on mountains are changing. If you look at some of the historical data on Google Earth (the problem being getting photos taken at the same time of year), changes in glaciers can be seen.

reply to post by heineken


It does not restart. It keeps going. (ETA: Though, that might be semantics... see below)

(Here, I should note that the "calendar" in this sense is not the physical calendar, which was engraved in a rock and, so, stopped when the rock ran out. The "calendar" I'm now referring to is the same continuous one that corresponds to the calendar we use.)

The Mayan Long Count is divided up into, among other things, periods of 144,000 days (about 400 years), called B'ak'tuns. This is what ends on December 21, 2012. The calendar, itself, doesn't end... we merely enter the a new B'ak'tun.
The last time we entered a new B'ak'tun was in 1618. Did the world end? Did some monumental change take place?
The last time before that that we entered a new B'ak'tun was in 1223. Did the world end? Did some monumental change take place?
Before that, we entered a new B'ak'tun in 829. Did the world end? Did some monumental change take place?
Before that, we entered a new B'ak'tun in 434. Did the world end? Did some monumental change take place?
Need I go on...?


ETA: There is also the Great Cycle, which spans the entire period from 3114 BC to AD 2012 - renewing on December 21, 2012. I wouldn't call that "restarting," but, then as I said above, that might be semantics.
Also, even if we're going to call it a "restart"... what sort of restart occurred in 3114 BC? As just one example of the lack of a "restart," the Egyptian 1st Dynasty went through this date.

Originally posted by joechip This book does a very good, scholarly job of explaining the Mayan calendar as well as showing resonances with other ancient cultures, building a very solid argument for the "signposts" for 2012. What it doesn't do is answer exactly what will happen. I would be wary of anyone's work that does.

Chiming in here as an anthropologist who studies ancient cultures, there isn't a single ancient culture, including the Mayans, who attributed much significance to the 2012 date.

The Mayans (who were around in 900 AD and aren't (to my biased mind) that ancient), didn't have any prophecies about that time -- until Argueles discovered the calendar ended in 2012 and decided to write about it and hordes of tourists showed up wanting to know about the End Times.

Ancient cultures dated their years by the kings' reign (or beginning with the birth or death of a major religious figure.) So, the ancient Egyptians had no way of writing 2012 or anything of the kind... they didn't say "4520 years after Djoser's reign began" (which was the only way they could have written it.) Greece and Rome counted years since the founding of their cities. Even societies with good astronomy (China, Sumeria, etc) had no real prophecies about 2012.

reply to post by Vandettas

In my opinion, all the 2012 prophecy talk and stuff is just the desperation of religious freaks trying to prove their religion. Nothing regarding 2012 is backed up by facts. Nothing.

Well, read the aforementioned book before you dismiss everything 2012 related. Or don't, but realize your "opinion" hardly even qualifies as an opinion. I would be like me having an "opinion" about quasars or something else I have done no research on, have little interest in, and yet have very, very strong feelings about. It's ridiculous. An opinion requires at the very least, some knowledge upon which the opinion is based. What you have is a prejudice, not an opinion.

reply to post by Vandettas


sometime at or around dec. 21, 2012 the 100th monkey will either be born or will awaken, this will immediately be followed by the Immanentization of the Eschaton

we are all co-creators of reality, so 2012 will be whatever you believe it to be, this is why all the disinfo and fear-mongering, by TCOTBIP, in order to influence the final outcome in their favor, if they can get the majority of humanity terrorized enough, it will tip the scales, to the point of being able to reset the matrix with them on top and future history will be no different from the past for yet another Sun/Cycle.

the choice is yours.

reply to post by Byrd


I'm not going to argue your broader point, except to ask if you've read the book. Have you? The certainty you seem to have regarding this doesn't imply a very open mind on the subject, but on the off-chance that you might possess one, I recommend reading the book. It doesn't claim that these cultures have this date, but rather this particular winter solstice "marked' as significant. Really, being an anthropologist, I would think you may wish to actually examine the author's work before dismissing it. I am not that author, so hesitate to even debate this, especially with someone who hasn't read the book.

Thanks.

Its up to you to decide. There's plenty of naysayers and plenty of supporters. Read through some threads here with an open mind and decide for yourself.

Personally I don't believe its the end, but a change.

IMO a storm is brewing and change is coming. Can you feel it? Or do want to believe in the scientific dogma that all is the same and nothing will happen?

reply to post by Vandettas


Planetary alignments are common. The biggie in recent times was the 5-5-2000 alignment which was predicted to destroy the world and it did. Good call on that one, wasn't it? The many alignments a year are often posted on astronomy sites.
Conjunctions of the Planets: 2007 - 2010

The Mayan calendar in question is the long count. It does not end. It is a linear calendar, not cyclic. We can check on an archaeologist for this.
2012: The Long Count is not cyclical

CMEs and solar flares can lead to damaged goods on Earth. There are ways to prevent the damage.

The claim that a species is overdue is certainly misleading. There is no such thing as a meaningful norm for a species existence. Unlike other species we can exist in environments from the hottest deserts to the coldest polar regions because we can use technology.

There are a number of projects that map NEOs or near earth objects. These cannot find all pieces of rock. Consider that several thousand fireballs occur each day. There is a rain of material hitting the atmosphere. Almost everything is small. A rock such as those suggested by movies would be detected out decades and allow us some time to develop a plan.

There is no evidence of an imminent ice age. Ice ages do not happen suddenly.

To suggest that anyone knows that a major damaging solar event or an asteroid impact will happen in 2012 is simply making up a tall story.