New York state just passed same sex marriage bill

Originally posted by Jrocbaby

Originally posted by goodday123

Originally posted by arbitrarygeneraiist

Originally posted by goodday123

Originally posted by arbitrarygeneraiist

Originally posted by goodday123
Homosexuality is a sin against God's laws...nothing can change that.

A win for civil liberties, a win for freedom, a win for rights...yes


But in the view of God's laws, this is an abomination.


Thank God for God

You're a sin against my God's law. And your God is not my God, and thank God for that.

That sounds like a real witty reply...but explain how if your God is the God of the Bible, then how is it possible that homosexuality is not a sin?

Help me understand your logic?

My reply wasn't meant to be witty. I was demonstrating in very simple terms how not everybody shares the same concept of religion and God that you do. Not everyone abides by the Bible. Not everyone believes in the concept of God as he solely exists within the rigid, violent, and discriminatory context of the Bible.

So I don't particularly care what the Bible says about homosexuality because the bible was written and pieced together by man, and man is fallible.

I follow my own personal interpretation of what I want God and religion to be and to mean for myself.

edit on 25-6-2011 by arbitrarygeneraiist because: (no reason given)

I understand that, many people have various views. Mine is that the law of God states homosexuality is a sin...and that there is no debate in that fact.

If you want to interpret the Bible differently or somehow discount its authority, that is just an attempt to justify what you know is untrue. Better to not be religious at all...

God is a representation of what you believe, and if YOU believe god hates gay people, then just say it instead of hiding behind religion you coward.

You can't say "well the bible says don't be gay" But the bible was not created by god in any way shape or form.

If you support a book that tells people to be racist, that makes you a racist.

Stop lying to yourself

I don't believe for a second that "God hates gays"...where did you get that from?

Simply stated that God, God of the Christian Bible states that homosexuality is a sin.

Not too sure how you got off topic?

If you want to throw out the argument that the Bible wasn't inspired by God - then that would be another debate we could start a new post on...its up to you

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by arbitrarygeneraiist

 

I follow my own personal interpretation of what I want God and religion to be and to mean for myself.

That would be religious humanism, and the belief that there are no absolutes, and a belief in moral relativity.

Aka I follow my own personal interpretation of what I want God and religion to be and to mean for myself. Titles and classifications aren't always necessary.

reply to post by topherman420


Marriage produces offspring, or at least it is supposed too. I have a hard time believing that same sex love is "normal" by most peoples logic.

Originally posted by discharged77
Strong families equal strong societies. Look at history.

Yes.

California Has More Than 50,000 Gay Parents

The institute's numbers are based on Census information. In the survey, California reported 125,516 couples, 21% of which are raising children. That means that one of every five gay couples is parenting.

Strong families equal a strong society.

marriagenewswatch.com...

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by TheOrangeBrood

 

Did you just argue that Jews were bigots in olden days and that Jesus came to change that bigotry? Wow, just wow. He said he came not to change the law. Guess you missed that one.

Way to be a shining example of that "analytical retardation" I was talking about. I never said any such things.

Judaen laws in leviticus, however, were not "God's law" -- even at the time that Jesus was around.

Get educated.

I "missed" very little in my 14 years of religious education.

It's a very cute condescending tone you threw on there to tout a completely moronic misinterpretation of yours, though. Very Christ-like as usual.

Originally posted by discharged77
reply to post by topherman420

 

Marriage produces offspring, or at least it is supposed too. I have a hard time believing that same sex love is "normal" by most peoples logic.

It's good to know that infertile couples who are married produce offsprings, and it's also good to know that people who get married but don't have any children also produce offsprings. Phew, I'm glad we cleared that one up. I mean clearly marriage can't be about anything other than producing offsprings, because married couples -always- produce offspring.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

And you have the right to turn them away from your door in pretty much any non-violent manner you like.

I just slam the door in their face. I have offered to let my dog out on a few of them if they didn't leave.

But in the schools, it is forced upon unsuspecting children against their parents wishes. Yes it is, and it's being done as social engineering. And when parents object, they are treated with disrespect and even intimidated.

Oh, you're not telling me anything new.
I've been to our daughter's school raising hell when they sent her home for wearing a "gay pride" shirt. It was the first time she ever wore it to school. I was told by the school she was sent home because she refused to change her shirt. Their reasoning was it might offend other students and distract them from their studies. I asked them why then is it okay for some other students to wear their "Got Jesus" shirts. Would it not offend non Christian students? Why weren't they threatened to change their shirts or be sent home? They couldn't give me an answer and I told them our daughter will wear any shirt she wishes and if she's sent home again we would proceed with a discrimination case against the school board. Thankfully, she graduated this year and doesn't have to go back to that school.

Originally posted by discharged77
reply to post by topherman420

 

Marriage produces offspring, or at least it is supposed too. I have a hard time believing that same sex love is "normal" by most peoples logic.

Only marriage produces offspring eh? I see alot of marriages happen because of those "oops" moments by irresponsible teenagers. Only to end up in divorce anyway or dysfunctional because they think the same thing and treat marriage as an obligation rather then what it should be, two loving people coming together and vowing to be with eachother always no matter what.

reply to post by Annee


LOL. Are you joking? Imagine what this world would become if this would become the standard. Maddness.

Originally posted by TheOrangeBrood

Originally posted by DigitalControl

Originally posted by TheOrangeBrood

Originally posted by DigitalControl
Homosexuality is not a sin, even according to the bible.
Post proof to me that it is.

Well that's not true..

..The truth, however, is that Christianity is based on the concept that Jesus changed the entire religious system of Judaism to accept everyone and be humble; not to judge, because God is the ultimate judge. Anyone claiming to be behind Christianity whilst judging homosexuals and demanding that they be afforded lesser rights than anyone is not a true Christian, but merely another blaspheming hate machine.

edit on 25-6-2011 by TheOrangeBrood because: (no reason given)

It is true, however. Post a verse that say's homosexuality is a sin.

Well Leviticus yields the most overused one:

"And a man who will lie down with a male in beds of a woman, both of them have made an abomination; dying they will die. Their blood is on them."

Like I said, though, Levitican Law is Jewish, not Christian, it is only included in the Bible as an outline of how the faith evolved and to give a context to how the Jewish people acted in the Old Testament and outline the prophecies of Jesus' coming and how he would change the faith. He came and tried to change the faith, but the bigots hung on to the hate that was fabricated by Judaen priests in the Old testament because they're are ignorant of the book that they claim to base their lives on.

I've read 4 full versions of the Bible and I am now an Atheist by education. There is plenty of Old and New testament blasphemy that preaches against homosexuality, however, none of it is from Jesus himself (which is what Christianity is based on). Jesus instead tells everyone to get along and be peaceful, that is God's real will, which had been distorted by Jews for millenniums. Not unlike the Old Testament Jews, these "Christians" still hold on to these tidbits of blasphemy and call them "Christian values"; they are not. Whether they are analytically retarded or just haters, these self-proclaimed anti-homosexual "Christians" will not be going to this fabled "Heaven", Jesus was quite clear about that:

Matthew 7:3

"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?

Mark 12:31b

'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these."

John 8:7b

“Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone"

Interesting...but misleading

Jesus (who you rightfully describe as "turn the other cheek" and as forgiving and loving) also said these things:

Matthew 11:20-24

"And you, Caper'na-um, will you be exalted to heaven? You shall be brought down to Hades. For if the mighty works done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I tell you that it shall be more tolerable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom than for you."

Luke 17:28-30

"Likewise as it was in the days of Lot—they ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built, but on the day when Lot went out from Sodom fire and sulphur rained from heaven and destroyed them all—so will it be on the day when the Son of man is revealed."

So when the Son of man returns, will he turn the other cheek on sinners? Will He forgive sinners for not following those "old Mosaic" laws...which were the laws in the same time as Sodom.

Clearly stated that Jesus transformed the religion but also very clearly that he upholds God's laws - He doesn't abolish them...if He did then it would have made more sense to be a totally different religion and not to call this "old guy" Father

Originally posted by discharged77
reply to post by Annee

 

LOL. Are you joking? Imagine what this world would become if this would become the standard. Maddness.

It means that we would have unity in diversity and some form of equality! But unfortunately we can't have that. It's madness! We need to keep subjugating and discriminating against people for no reason. Ah... stagnation is beautiful.

reply to post by topherman420


BTW, my wife once did a report on same-sex partnerships and adoption. Aka, whether or not same sex partnerships had any negative effect on an adopted child. It turns out that there was no difference between children adopted by same sex partners and those adopted by "normal" partners. In case this is still unclear, same-sex partners were equally as strong in family relationships, morals, and raising the kids as normal partners.

Originally posted by Jeremy032180
Glad to see NY is giving people their civil liberties. Too bad other parts of the country are still so far behind.

But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first.

Needless to say that like it or not the communist/homo agenda is going to be forced on the masses, it was bound to happen considering the state of this country. You commies will wake up one day and see that you have been cheering on the wrong side, but when you do it will be too late i am afraid.

Originally posted by arbitrarygeneraiist

Originally posted by goodday123

Originally posted by arbitrarygeneraiist

Originally posted by goodday123

Originally posted by arbitrarygeneraiist

Originally posted by goodday123

Originally posted by arbitrarygeneraiist

Originally posted by goodday123
Homosexuality is a sin against God's laws...nothing can change that.

A win for civil liberties, a win for freedom, a win for rights...yes


But in the view of God's laws, this is an abomination.


Thank God for God

You're a sin against my God's law. And your God is not my God, and thank God for that.

That sounds like a real witty reply...but explain how if your God is the God of the Bible, then how is it possible that homosexuality is not a sin?

Help me understand your logic?

My reply wasn't meant to be witty. I was demonstrating in very simple terms how not everybody shares the same concept of religion and God that you do. Not everyone abides by the Bible. Not everyone believes in the concept of God as he solely exists within the rigid, violent, and discriminatory context of the Bible.

So I don't particularly care what the Bible says about homosexuality because the bible was written and pieced together by man, and man is fallible.

I follow my own personal interpretation of what I want God and religion to be and to mean for myself.

edit on 25-6-2011 by arbitrarygeneraiist because: (no reason given)

I understand that, many people have various views. Mine is that the law of God states homosexuality is a sin...and that there is no debate in that fact.

If you want to interpret the Bible differently or somehow discount its authority, that is just an attempt to justify what you know is untrue. Better to not be religious at all...

But you're mistaken. It is not God's law telling you to do something, it is man's law.

You were the one who was talking about logic earlier, so objectively prove to me that the words in the Bible originated from God. Otherwise, please humbly accept the reality that the text in the Bible originated solely from man.

But if you still believe that the Bible originated from God despite what I said, then God just told me that everyone needs to ignore most of the Bible, and He also told me that homosexuality is natural and moral. I guess since you believe that God speaks through people, you kind of have to believe what I said without objective proof that it originated from God.

In terms of you posting with a logical reply to my response, I'm going to assume that this is a lose-lose situation for you.

Sorry, I had to re-read that ?

OK, lets play this game...you prove to me that the Bible was INSPIRED from man and not God.

And your argument is that I have no argument because God spoke to you as he spoke to those who wrote the Bible, so in the same terms you have the same validity as the authors of the Bible...

I'm sure you don't expect me to take that seriously???

That isn't how debating works. You made the claim that the Bible was the authority of God. You made the claim that it is God's law saying that homosexuality is a sin because it was written in the Bible which somehow gives the text direct association to God. I asked you to provide objective evidence that God had any hand in creating the Bible. You're blindly believing that God had a hand in the creation of the Bible because you were told by other men that it was. Therefore the burden of proof is on your shoulders.

Yes, I am telling you that I have the same validity as the authors of the Bible, because I am a man telling you that God was channeled through me to send a message to you, same as how you believe without proof that God was channeled through the authors of the Bible.

I am expecting you to take me seriously, because I already know that you can't prove to me that God was channeled through the authors of the Bible, and I know that you can't prove to me that anyone in history who is said to have witnessed God in some form actually witnessed God.

You were told that these things are true. You don't even know why you believe what you're told by these people because you're choosing to accept them as truths based solely on blind faith about what one human told another human. So how is my word any less valid than that of another human being?

Then if you are SO certain the Bible was not inspired by God...simply educate me...

reply to post by discharged77

The same types of behaviors were alive and well in the Roman empire, they lost their way, lost their morality and in the end you know what happened.

They did not lost their way, they were always doing it. Ancient Greece was accepting homosexuality for a thousand of years, the Rome inherited this culture. These were some of the most advanced societes of the past. Then the christianity and the invasions from the east happened.

On the other hand, the age when christians with their bigoted pseudomorality controlled society is known as dark ages.

It is funny how you twist this, when history in fact shows the complete opposite.

Originally posted by discharged77
Needless to say that like it or not the communist/homo agenda is going to be forced on the masses, it was bound to happen considering the state of this country. You commies will wake up one day and see that you have been cheering on the wrong side, but when you do it will be too late i am afraid.

I'm for homosexuals having rights that are afforded to other people by the laws of the states. However, I'm not for socialist government. It seems to me, many people on ATS hate the idea of bigger government. It seems they want a smaller government. Less governmental power. Less governmental spending. So, what in the hell are you talking about?

Originally posted by arbitrarygeneraiist

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by arbitrarygeneraiist

 

I follow my own personal interpretation of what I want God and religion to be and to mean for myself.

That would be religious humanism, and the belief that there are no absolutes, and a belief in moral relativity.

Aka I follow my own personal interpretation of what I want God and religion to be and to mean for myself. Titles and classifications aren't always necessary.

edit on 25-6-2011 by arbitrarygeneraiist because: (no reason given)

No, it's not necessary, but your idea has been articulated by the Humanist Manifesto. Thought you might like to know.
And for the record:

King James Bible Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. Matthew 5:17

King James Bible Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.Matthew 10:34

So now are the homo's going to help the polygamists get their "equal rights" now? I just watched a documentary on a women who is in love with her horse, will they be allowed to marry also soon. How about people that are related, why cant they marry also? Do you see where this is going? Where does it stop?

reply to post by goodday123


You're intentionally shifting the burden of proof which in this case is also a red herring because you don't want to take responsibility for your claim by providing proof of it. I'm guessing it's because you can't.

I'm certain that man wrote the Bible. And I'm certain that no one can provide evidence that God had a direct contribution to the Bible or any of the substance within it.

I can provide you proof of how man wrote and pieced together the Bible, is that what you're asking me for? I can even do you one better, I can provide you how man can be traced back to everything related to the Bible. But sadly, I cannot prove that the Bible was not inspired by God anymore than you can prove that the men who created the foundation of the Bible had a direct association with God, and same as how you cannot prove that my message to you earlier wasn't inspired by God.

And if you believe their word, then why don't you believe my word? Prove that the men in the Bible who claimed to have witnessed God in some way is more valid than my claim to have witnessed God in some way.

What makes the Bible so valid? Because the Pope (who is another man appointed by men) said it's valid?