Lunar Landings are fake

Originally posted by Illustronicwhat specific problem do you have with the Apollo moon landings?

Sigh... I have answered that many times...

Okay I used to be an Apollo groupie during the time of the flights... bought it all hook line and sinker... but over the years I have seen evidence and heard stories from people that made me question it. I have seen photos that have issues and now know directly from NASA that some images were doctored to make them prettier for press releases.

Currently I am undecided if they did actually go during Apollo or if they went and had help. Long story that and I don't feel like dragging up all my posts from the last 6 years. Maybe later next month I will do a summary of my stuff on my site... been planning to anyway

There are just too many questions... I don't have all the answers yet

Originally posted by DJW001 And, you realize Coop was talking about UFO's, right?

Yup and so does Mitchell and he stresses that NASA knows nothing (wants to keep that pension )

As you well know its been my case all along that we are indeed operating on the Moon... I just believe the whole Apollo thingie was a publicity stunt needed to shut up Kennedy and cover the real truth.

I really like this paper.. and what it led me to
www.thelivingmoon.com...

But since ATS cleaned house... not too many of us 'nuts' left. Soon all you skeptics will just have each other to talk to and pat each other on the back. Conspiracy is dead... long live fake UFO videos

reply to post by zorgon


Yes, I do work for NASA projects since 1987 when I was hired at a company that established a confidential safety inspection reporting system at all NASA R&D development companies in the private sector, and NASA facilities also. I'm not insinuating direct Space Shuttle main operational development or servicing as such, we were the whistle blowers of things going on not to specs and an avenue for the scientists to report what they saw not to specs without retributions.We also designed and built many of the microgravity experiment modules on every Shuttle trip into LEO. I'm also part of a team bibbing for the current ISS National Laboratory operation submitted April 1st of this year, and that is not an April fools joke.

So what do you do?

Just because of all of that does not mean my word should mean more than yours, but in an objective field of analysis which words would mean more? Who would have more access of what's really going on, me or you?

reply to post by zorgon

But since ATS cleaned house... not too many of us 'nuts' left. Soon all you skeptics will just have each other to talk to and pat each other on the back. Conspiracy is dead... long live fake UFO videos

Zorgon, I've come to the conclusion that none of the "Big Kids" are going to score a knock-out blow here. Let's just let the OP defend his/her case. If you really want to discuss the issues brought up here, you know where to go.

Originally posted by DJW001 Let's just let the OP defend his/her case. If you really want to discuss the issues brought up here, you know where to go.

Yeah but there hasn't been a decent thread since I came back... dang it I miss the good olde days

I can't help this anymore, I want the Moon Hoax believers view the difference between the way the Apollo moon rover acted on the videos from the moon and the ones from the tests done here on earth. I wonder if the difference in a couple of matters would even be noticed that discerning mind see immediately.

One, like how grounded the rover is on earth, never bouncing up and down and at just 7km/hr it doesn't really kick up earth sand very far. It's because it doesn't move fast and we have atmosphere on earth.

But on the moon the rover even leaves the surface on a tire or two, kicks up hugh rooster tails of lunar regolith into ballistic projectiles.

That right there should illustrate both the lesser gravity on the moon (about 1/6th on earth) and the fact the fine particles of dust landed the same time as larger particles, meaning like a vacuum, like the hammer feather drop demonstration.

BTW the largest zero gravity drop NASA has is near Cleveland Ohio, at the then Lewis Research Center now named after John Glen, so it is now the Glen Research center, and I have been there and seen it. You can't film any simulated astronaut walks in that thing, really now, LOL!
one
two
three

Now on the moon, examine.


This video of the moon rover was done by a moon hoax believer, so you see how he fails miserably?

Originally posted by Exuberant1

Originally posted by zorgon

Why do debunkers always seem to think that quoting main stream science will carry weight on a conspiracy site?

It is also a good way to bulk up one's posts and make one look more clever than one actually is.

The people see a series of chubby posts and they think 'that guy is smart and stuff. Look at his research, he is an internet god.'

And since most people don't follow links or know about post-bulking, this can be used to great effect.

*Anyhow,...

From the other side, it looks very much like well-read, educated and intelligent posters vastly over-estimate the reading level and comprehension of the average reader.

Perhaps we ought to gently remind them to use only very small words on threads like this one; otherwise it only confuses the sheep?

reply to post by solid007

Nice vid really enjoyed watching these liars, bad ones at that, squirm like slugs. I liked where they contradicted each other and got irritated by the questioning to the point of throwing a fist....lol.
I found it very strange that these supposed astronauts had no idea where the van allen belts started or finished, one would think it would be of more importance than how far away the moon was, to the occupants at least.
Also, how fake does the lunar module leaving its base on the alleged departure of the moons surface look...lol you can even see it swaying from side to side as it was hoisted then the film sped up, just ridiculous!

reply to post by zorgon

You love stirring the pot, don't you Zorgon

I know that you know that those facilities were used for Astronaut training purposes and none of them were secret. All of these facilities (and that big painted Moon) were all public knowledge back in the 1960s.

The moon craters painted under that huge gantry was used to train for the lunar landing -- i.e., the gantry supported a working LEM simulator, while the ground was painted with like a real portion of the Moon so the simulation would feel as real as possible, plus give obstacles for the astronauts to avoid.

The big round painted Moon was used as part of a simulator for the CM pilot. A camera hooked up to the simulator would move around the surface of that moon-painted sphere and give the astronaut a projected view that would be something similar to what it would be like when he was there.

There were also indoor and outdoor facilities where the astronauts could choreograph all of their excursions on the Moon. They just didn't walk around willy-nilly on the Moon -- they were given pre-arranged places to go, and these simulated EVAs helped them know things such as how much time they could spend at each EVA site, what they need to do there, a rough approximation of what it would look like, etc.

Just like the space shuttle and space station astronauts practiced and choreographed their spacewalks (for the construction of the space station, the repair of the Hubble telescope, etc,) in a huge swimming pool, the Apollo astronauts practiced and choreographed their Moon EVAs, their Moon landings, and their orbits of the Moon.

Of course the simulators weren't perfect and didn't actually give the real look and feel of the actual moon, but it was a good approximation, and gave the astronauts a certain feeling of familiarity once they got to the actual Moon.

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


Hey Soylent,

Do you think it would be easier/cheaper to fake the Apollo missions? (Of course this option means Going as far as to use two Saturns to leave landing stages on the moon, robots to make tracks, satellites for faking signals, etc)

Or do you think that going to the moon and landing there a bunch of times with humans is the easier task?

Originally posted by solid007
reply to post by hp1229

 

People are too serious nowadays

no sense of humors

yeah right...when the topic is steered towards British Empire and their declining..err declined Monarchy, you turn towards humor and make it seem as if you were joking and the rest of the world wasn't

Ofcourse I can play along too with a good humor.

Personally I think the guy is a looney in the clip. I also believe that US space program was tremendously successful and actually landed man on the moon.

So...
* Who among you read-up on the Van Allen radiation belt after watching the video?
* Who among you can describe how the threat was minimized?

I did. They went through the weakest section of it that they could; and they went through that narrow belt as fast as they could-- receiving less than 5 rads.

In the case of the video-- it is what is not said about the Van Allen belt which denies both science and reason. So how does one learn what was not said? Anyone? Bueller?

* Who among you went back and looked again at the Apollo video and listened for Mission Control claiming Astronaut Young had used a transparency with an image of the Earth on it when flying Apollo X?
* Who among you went back and looked for the Apollo XI astronauts holding a transparency with the image of the Earth on it?

I did. It is not there. No such statement claiming Young used a transparency of the Earth is made.
No part of video shows astronauts holding a transparency of the Earth in a window.

* Who among you has gone back to verify that the film being shown is, was, or ever has been "classified?"

I didn't have to-- I had already seen it, with no mention whatsoever of conspiracy theory.

* Who among you would stop in the middle of your trip to the grocery store to listen to outrageous accusations made by some man carrying a Bible, but claiming to be with "ABC Digital," and trailed by a film crew; and then hang around to parrot gibberish about "treason" and "eternal fires of Hell" and "Satanic lies?"

He says, "Do you think you can get to Heaven without repenting?" He says, "You're a coward and a liar, and a... Ooof!" The only part that made any real sense was the "Ooof!" He claims to be a film-maker for fifteen years, but keeps quoting how he saw a CNN report on cosmic radiation's effect on astronauts, and never once claims his own research, and never once ties that to the make-believe transparency of the earth being held in the window. He says, "I thought it was the arm of God going across the Earth" It is gibberish.

The Von Braun quote, if it really was from Von Braun (the man does not source it), is obviously discussing the use of particular rocket motor designs-- single motor stacking against multiple stages of bundled motors. The letter only makes sense if the statement was made in the 1950's or before, because by the early sixties, Von Braun was already working on the Saturn series of boosters, which used five motors in two stages. Shoot, the first two-stage Saturn V went up in 1963, six years before the moon shot (but the man claims it had not even been conceived by Von Braun 3 years before the moon landing). If you were impressed by the letter, it is only because you did not know of that.

Do you all even know that the Apollo I fire was about using pure pressurized oxygen in the cabin and had nothing to do with boosters?

And, yet, some discuss this video presentation as if the man is credible-- as if his claims are verified by the video, or the Von Braun letter, or by a CNN report -- none of which speak to what what he alleges.

muley ? muley ? muley ?






I want proof the US got ol muley with an unmanned probe, or I want zorgon and all the others to concede defeat.

I want;

photos of the probe
exact date it was launched
exact location it was launched

remember, you will still need a saturn rocket to get to the moon, so don't embarass yourself by stating it was sent up from a top secret base in antartica while nobody was looking, or it was sent from LEO, and then rendevoused back with the apollo craft ala a shuttle

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People

The moon craters painted under that huge gantry was used to train for the lunar landing -- i.e., the gantry supported a working LEM simulator, while the ground was painted with like a real portion of the Moon so the simulation would feel as real as possible, plus give obstacles for the astronauts to avoid.

The big round painted Moon was used as part of a simulator for the CM pilot. A camera hooked up to the simulator would move around the surface of that moon-painted sphere and give the astronaut a projected view that would be something similar to what it would be like when he was there.

No man, the astronaust were drugged, hypnotized and then they used that stuff to give them false memories maann.

They tried to tell us....

...From the Apollo 14 Blackbox:

(From Apollo 14 - they tried to tell us)

And Get This - You know how they say Kubrick helped fake the landings.... the astronauts are trying to tell us here:

*Takes off tinfoil hat maannn*

Originally posted by Devino
reply to post by spy66

 

>Why would they want to fake the moon landing?

Because a moon landing would mean more tax dollars to found space exploration.

Problem here is that the Moon mission program was canceled. Apollo 17 was the last mission Launched on December 7, 1972. So if this were a HOAX in attempt to gain more money it failed completely.

They overstepped the mark with Apollo 17 and used the future cancellation as distraction from extra scrutiny, leaving them with 3 Saturn rockets, surplus to requirements. They must have planned the total of flights to number 20. The OPs video is interesting but was produced in 2004 so is not new information, but does show a deep insight into the Astronauts. I have never believed the Moon missions were genuine and it is good that they are being challenged about it, as I have said before on ATS, I am sure that NASA will come clean on the truth about the Moon missions before the end of 2011, in fact I have been told that a major film project is underway by them as we speak. However I too wanted to punch and kick the reporter, the Astronauts are not the ones to blame for this, they had their lives hijacked by NASA and they have been prisoners ever since, they are now scared old men, who stand on the brink of having what little bit of dignity they have been left with, ripped from them. I would panic too in their shoes ! As I said before, the tipping point was Apollo 17, this is the one I have personally been researching for years now !

Originally posted by Qwenn...the tipping point was Apollo 17, this is the one I have personally been researching for years now !

Oh really?

So you've watched all 12+ hours of lunar EVA video (the DVD set has the best resolution)? How many of the 3,500+ 70mm hand-held photographs have you studied? What about the 2,138 Mapping Camera images, or the 1,581 Pan Cam images?

Of course the visual record is just the tip of the iceberg. The printed record is mountainous. Have you read the Apollo 17 mission report? What about the Preliminary Science Report? What did you think of the USGS' "Geologic Investigation of the Valley of Taurus-Littrow"

Then there is the crew. Have you read the crew's tech debrief? Perhaps you've read the interviews that were part of the oral history project? Gene Cernan's was 55 pages long. Jack Schmitt did two interviews for the project, one is 74 pages long, and the other is 42 pages. Cernan also published a personal memoir; have you read that? Of course, both men share reminisces in front of the camera in 2007's "In the Shadow of the Moon".

Of course, we can't forget the support personnel. Ed Fendell operated the remote TV camera. Chris Kraft, Gene Kranz and Sy Liebergott (among many others) all contributed to the oral history project, and also published their own memoirs. That's just a few of the thousands who worked on the flight. Tom Kelly, Grumman's LM project engineer published an excellent book about designing & building the Lunar Modules, and supporting the flights.

Those are just a very few of the resources for researching & understanding the flight of Apollo 17...

...Or did you just read a bunch of hoax web-sites and swallowed what they said hook, line & sinker - without question - because they reinforced your preconceived belief that it's all faked?

.

[reformatted for brevity and my own ease by this responder ~~ Frira]

Originally posted by Saint Exupery

* the Apollo 17 mission report
* the Preliminary Science Report
* the USGS' "Geologic Investigation of the Valley of Taurus-Littrow"
* the crew's tech debrief
* the oral history project
[including:]
** Gene Cernan's
** Jack Schmitt
* Cernan also published a personal memoir
...both men share reminisces in front of the camera in 2007's "In the Shadow of the Moon".
* the support personnel. Ed Fendell operated the remote TV camera.
** Chris Kraft
** Gene Kranz and
** Sy Liebergott
* Tom Kelly, Grumman's LM project engineer published an excellent book about designing & building the Lunar Modules, and supporting the flights.

Oh my word! I am in hog heaven! I knew nothing about the oral history project-- and I am thinking at least half of the rest of that material will be new to me. I can't thank you enough.

reply to post by DJW001


Anyone else noticed the LEM shadow is at a different angle to the figure shadow in the foreground? or do I need new glasses?

reply to post by pikestaff

Anyone else noticed the LEM shadow is at a different angle to the figure shadow in the foreground? or do I need new glasses?

No, you don't need glasses. Parallel lines appear to converge toward the horizon. It is this sort of everyday misunderstanding that fuels Moon Hoax theorists.

Originally posted by Saint Exupery

Originally posted by Qwenn...the tipping point was Apollo 17, this is the one I have personally been researching for years now !

Oh really?

So you've watched all 12+ hours of lunar EVA video (the DVD set has the best resolution)? How many of the 3,500+ 70mm hand-held photographs have you studied? What about the 2,138 Mapping Camera images, or the 1,581 Pan Cam images?

Of course the visual record is just the tip of the iceberg. The printed record is mountainous. Have you read the Apollo 17 mission report? What about the Preliminary Science Report? What did you think of the USGS' "Geologic Investigation of the Valley of Taurus-Littrow"

Then there is the crew. Have you read the crew's tech debrief? Perhaps you've read the interviews that were part of the oral history project? Gene Cernan's was 55 pages long. Jack Schmitt did two interviews for the project, one is 74 pages long, and the other is 42 pages. Cernan also published a personal memoir; have you read that? Of course, both men share reminisces in front of the camera in 2007's "In the Shadow of the Moon".

Of course, we can't forget the support personnel. Ed Fendell operated the remote TV camera. Chris Kraft, Gene Kranz and Sy Liebergott (among many others) all contributed to the oral history project, and also published their own memoirs. That's just a few of the thousands who worked on the flight. Tom Kelly, Grumman's LM project engineer published an excellent book about designing & building the Lunar Modules, and supporting the flights.

Those are just a very few of the resources for researching & understanding the flight of Apollo 17...

...Or did you just read a bunch of hoax web-sites and swallowed what they said hook, line & sinker - without question - because they reinforced your preconceived belief that it's all faked?

.

A bloke on the bus told me, and I also saw a 30 second video on you-tube !