Disappear From Society? Off Grid?

Originally posted by haarvik
reply to post by wildoracle13

 

I know what Wyoming is like, been there, done that. Wasn't saying it was unowned, simply stating that if you payed your property taxes far enough in advance there would not be a big eye on you.

You have to understand that if you are going to buy a chunk of property that not only means paying your taxes but you need water right? Now you have to find out who has water rights if you are wanting to irrigate a garden, when you can use the water and what portion of maintenance you are responsible for. I am also thinking you want to hunt right? Are you going to hunt only on your property with out proper licensure? That's still considered poaching and the fines aren't cheap not to mention the "big eye" on you for the rest of forever. Are the elk and deer going to be abundant there year round? No. You have to get permission to hunt on someone else's land and I promise you it's next to impossible to get permission unless you have "friends." And, you have to live here one full year before you are considered a resident for a residency license then you have to provide a mailing address which you wont be able to do since you are off the grid. You will need a residency license to begin gaining points and with those you can enter a draw for a big game animal. My husband has been trying to get a moose for 7 years, he has double the amount of points you need and still hasn't won a draw. Do you plan on eating rabbits or squirels. Fishing and trapping are still not a free for all, you have to buy licenses every year. Don't get me started on living through the winters. Unless you find a nice cozy cave uninhabited by grizzly bears you will want a permanent shelter, then the government will want a piece of that too. Maybe I am being pessimistic but I can't see a way to escape this way of life logically.

reply to post by wildoracle13


Good points. I'm not so much looking to escape it as it would be next to impossible. However, there are ways to minimize it. Either there are a lot of people lying, or the information I have read about people leads me to believe others are doing it as well. I am just wanting to know how people have researched and planned for doing it.

reply to post by haarvik


I would like to know too. Like I mentioned, it's a far out idea unless you are talking about communes I suppose even then, they aren't successful according to what I've read. I sure as hell wouldn't want to stay here if SHTF or anything like that. Wyoming and Montana may have a lot of space but all that will buy us is time to get packed. If you are thinking of buggin out before something happens I would look into remote areas of Canada or Alaska, climate is next to intolerable but you wouldn't have the proverbial eye quite so close. Tell me more about what you have heard/read and we can help you look into it.

If you have someone you trust willing to help you, a decent amount of money, survival skills, and don't care about modern comforts than it's not too difficult.

You need land somewhere not too populated. It can't be in your name, though, which is where the friend comes in handy. Give this friend all your money, have him buy some land and pay the taxes, and let you live on this land. Now you have a place to live, with no connection to you.

As far as actually surviving, if you gave your friend a good amount of money, he/she could just deliver supplies to you every month or something. Or you could live off the land, which could be difficult to impossible depending on where you are. Or a combination of the two.

Or you could sell everything you own, buy a small R/V, 20 years of food (yes, you can get food that lasts 20 years) and then disappear into some national forest somewhere.

It really isn't that difficult to disappear off the grid. The hard part if getting off the grid, but still having modern luxuries like electricity, running water, sewage systems, TVs, Computers, etc.

But nothing is stopping you from just disappearing into a national forest. Except your own lack of survival knowledge, potential legal issues if you get caught, and willingness to give up your comfortable life.

I have so often wondered how people do this. How does one become invisible to TPTB and yet be able to sustain themselves?

you can't with the big eye in the sky

I know there are a lot of men who advocate being the lone wolf, but how many women are actually into this?

I myself along with my wife live on a 40 sailboat when we want to go, we go anyplace we want. ( I have a trip coming soon)

Where do you start? how do you earn a living?

you start by making the choice. we barter a lot living on the hook. it is not uncommon for someone to come up to us with a big lobster wanting to trade for a tube of toothpaste

There has been a lot of people moving west (Montana, Wyoming, etc)

my backyard is bigger then theirs! I just have a harder time growing anything.

and going off-grid. How are they doing it?

this is the hard part. are you willing to give up your xbox, big screen tv and surround sound and exchange it for a radio maybe a 13' tv? a lot of people will not. living off 12V it not as easy as it sounds

I for one am keenly interested in this, because when SHTF I would love nothing more than to be away from it all and prepared.

how about doing this because you want to. if you wait for SHTF then you are doing it for the wrong reason.

Of course I am a lone wolf anyway, but do have a family. I know I can take being isolated for long periods of time. I also know there are a lot of families that have made the move

how big is your family? will they fit on a boat? a lot of families live aboard link if it is something you might be interested in .

so how do they do it? How do you really go off-grid,

Well i am unplugged from shore power and I live off 4 optima batteries

Originally posted by wildoracle13
reply to post by haarvik

 

Tell me more about what you have heard/read and we can help you look into it.

A lot of what I have read involves moving to Montana, Wyoming or Alaska. Mostly remote, lightly populated areas. Typically, these areas are also home to more of the pioneering type people. I know how to use solar/wind to generate and store power. I was in the military so I know a lot about wilderness survival. The part that eludes me is this; living off grid is somewhat easy, but having an income and being able to buy things you normally wouldn't be able to provide for yourself are the things I wonder about. I have read about people who have pretty much given up normal life and have built a self sustaining life. The term I hear most is homesteading. I grew up on a mini farm, so I know how to farm and raise chickens. I guess the biggest things I am looking for are where do you buy the things such as solar/wind generators and components without spending $10k to do it. How much $$ would it take to make the move and have shelter, etc?

It all depends on how much "off the grid" you want.

If you mean disappear from society and government records...I suggest the hermit life up in the Blue Ridge Mtns along the Appalachian Trail. Basically, squat on a piece of National Forest, build a primitive homestead... no fences, no decisive land marks, live in a decent shelter/cabin in a very wooded holler or gulley...you would fish, hunt, and have small scattered sustainable gardens in the area made up of turnips, rutagabas, potatoes, maybe some squash...leafy crops would need to be closer to keep away deer. There already exists a loosely formed transient community up on "the Trail" with nomadic hermits that live off the land...they come down to the small communities to trade from time to time... my son befriended some of them when he was up in the Chattooga Gorge guiding on a white water river.

Now, if you just want to be self sufficient...that is propbably the preferred rout for many.

I would suggest a local where the winters are not extreme...avg around 32 degrees in winter...about 90 in summer... a place obviously off the beaten path in the country. There are plenty of small farms for sale and rurasl homes that would fit a lot of budgets in South-side Virginia and Northern NC...most have a small home and some outbuildings...or you could just buy a lot of say 5 acres...and start from scratch.

But be aware, when you do this...there will be records of the purchase, county and state records for propert tax, and if you insure anything...records there. If you get any of the modern conveniences, there will be records.

However, if you just want to set up house...call it a workshop...in an agricultural community, most...MOST...not all of the time...most...of the time anything agricultural is sacred and doesn't need permits or inspections unless installing electricity or water. So, if you buy property with a well already established...thast would be good...otherwise you will have to dig one or get someone to do it.

Now, beyond that...just pay your property taxes and the world is yours. Keep good fences, better tree lined barriers from the road... go for solar or wind driven power(if always a good breeze) or better yet, no power at all... cook and heat with wood, get you some horses or mules and use to haul stuff or ride to the community market/ country store and trade or sell items.... sell your stuff from your garden...maybe a little stand. Or sell firewood...you may need a truck, but there goes more records...and fees...and licenses...and gas.

Basically, if you decide to "live like gran' daddy"... you wuill need a good supply of tools..axes, hand saws, cast iron cookware because it spreads heat evenly and cooks slow without much attention, you will need to harness skills like gardening, mass planting for feed of your animals, repair skills, become a jack leg engineer...basically do something with nothing...like take scrap pallets and make sheds...use someone's throw away water hose and make an irrigation line for your tomatoes...learn how to can and dehydrate and preserve, learn how to build a shelter/barn/cabin... learn to fish and trap and hunt... start yuour day early and stay up late preserving your foods and mending clothes...develope barter skills...and basically be a good hardworking person of integrity so the locals won't look down on you...yes, you will need the locals as they are a valuable source of skills, labor, help, and information...they can be best friends or worst enemies.

You should start with a cabin or small house...get some basic livestock...chickens are a must... for eggs and meat, also goats as easy to feed...forage for themselves..the right breeds provide milk and meat, multiply rapidly, and can clean underbrush from a potential field like nobody's business.

Also, a tiller will make life easier...or you could go the route of raised beds for your garden. Just remember the more complex the set up means more money...which means a job somewhere and fees and taxes...which is what you want to avoid.

Next up might be a horse or mule...but know this, they cost money to maintain, and unless you raise your own hay...they will be expensive.

Also, if your travels will not be far off...in many counties you can declare a vehicle as farm use and not pay for inspections...only pay the property tax as a piece of farm equipment...that can get you around locally.

It is hard living, but good living and rewarding.

I lived that way for 3 years until I met my present wife. We now live a semi-autonomous life style, we raise our own foods, heat with wood, have our own livestock, but we still have jobs out in the world.

Good luck.

Do you want to live off the grid, or under the radar? The two need not be mutually inclusive. i assume you are wanting to live under the radar at this time. This may not be as hard as you, and others, think. After all millions of illegal aliens do this every day. As an american there are things you must do first.

Sell of all real property that is taxed or must require a registration. No homes or cars from now on. You must use either your own power or public transportation. Living in a rental property is an easy option. Find someone that is willing to rent a room, or find someone willing to share expenses. Their name is on all the bills.No phone either. A prepaid burn phone may be used but not unless it is an emergency. Then a new on should be acquired. As always pay in cash.

Pay off all your creditors. you might think that if you are going to skip out on society you might as well screw the credit people, WRONG. Creditors are the must vicious, ruthless skip tracers out there. They will find you, why give them a chance to look for you?

Get a job that pays cash. Day labor with the immigrants is always an option. Learn a skill. Construction and handyman services work well for this. As do yard work. Barkeep at a strip club or biker bar. There are more things you can do for cash than you might expect.

Pay cash for EVERYTHING. You no longer exist as a person. Credit is not an option. This includes rent. You will no longer have any dealings with banks.

Move to a different place, preferably one that is opposite of what others might suspect of you. i.e. from the city to the country or vice-versa.

Chang your name. Not legally, just start to go by a nickname, middle name, or something else entirely. No one but the government and banks need to know your real name and you are avoiding both of these.

Give up drinking, nothing is worse than getting your set-up busted for stupidity and mouthing off while you are drunk.

Avoid government agents of all sorts.

Live a clean and simple life and no one will care who you are. Work hard and be nice to others. It will pay off in the end.

Don't think this will work? It worked well enough that on of Americas most wanted gangsters lived this way for over twenty years without getting caught. It works well enough that MILLIONS of illegal immigrants get away with it for a lifetime. How well do you think it would work for a clean, sober, hardworking person that is not being looked for by either the government or creditors?

respectfully

reluctantpawn

reply to post by reluctantpawn


You are right in every aspect of what you say...

My response was from my paradigm in which I like a simple, constructive lifestyle. I like having a farm and building things on my land with my own hands. And being my land, I can do what i want...to me that is good living.

Now truth be told, one could live as you have suggested, but it takes on the feel of a life as a fugitive. If that is your thing, go for it.

It really is nice, when at the end of the day...I can sit down on my porch, drink some sweet tea...relax and listen to my roosters crowing...watch the new born kids running and playing in the pasture around their mom...see the lightening bugs come out...look at my fields and the corn growing there... maybe eat a dinner in which all of the foods came off our farm. No worry about money, or bills, or food.

Again...this is the paradigm through which i see my world...others have a different view..as they should...

It all depends on if you want to just live ...or if you want to LIVE

reply to post by haarvik


Hello, I understand your dilemma, I am also noticing that your not getting much information so far, so, let me give it a shot.

1) I am Female, women do this all the time, and I have a family
2) living off grid is not as easy as many make it out to be.
3) going unnoticed is easier than you think.
4) Start slow, and work your way into it.
That being said Here is my take on the subject:
I started with finding property not totally off the grid, but in a remote area with the things I needed, space fpr animals, gardening, and ready water supply close by if the normal county water broke down. In my part of the country there is no such thing as "water rights" we dont pay anyone to water our animals, or garden unless you are using county owned water pipes to get it, and if you can find a peice of property with a natural spring all the better. And that is probobly best.
I built a house, not huge but sufficient to house my family,, and I built with an eye to defense(i.e. windows in certain places, specific access points etc. I also included storage areas, and some safe areas in the construction.
Then I began on the outside, a spattering of cattle, 3 to be exact, hogs 2, chickens, a coop of 7, and outside security-dogs. I made it a point to place fencing all the way around the property and post it on the non visible from the road areas.
To any one driving by we look like a little hobby farm.
Now to the important part. being invisible- the best way we have found to be invisible is to be NORMAL- We dont blatantly stroll the perimeter with an AK-47, instead, you meander out to check the cattle, or the fence, or take the dogs for a walk. Pay your taxes, shop at wal-mart, or other stores in the area, be normal from the outside. The best way to hide is in plain sight. Dont do anything stupid, dont protest, not make a nusciance of yourself with your politicinans, etc. You can choose what is more important to you, being involved in the first round, or preseerving your family so they can live on. For us, we will preserve our family first, and fight later when things get really hairy. We can either hunker down, or disappear into some of the surrounding areas until then.

The key to being protected is knowledge, know your area, do your research, I know my area, I have lived here all of my life, there are places here that NO ONE would ever think of even looking let alone send out some kind of drone to hunt me down. There is no reason for the TPTB to hunt me down -yet, In the mean time I prepare. Buy your guns and ammo a little at a time, dont order by the case, and buy the ammo at a chain store where you dont have to provide a drivers liscense.

As for an income, barter, barter, barter- I trade eggs, meat, veggies, sewing skills, and whatever else I can get my hands on for what I need. My husband runs a small home scrap yard, and through him, I have the ability to find items I can sell online-example=right now I have an antique claw foot bathtub, a copper steam table, and a persian rug listed on an online auction, they are selling like hot cakes, the tub, and table are gonna net about 600.00 in cash, the persian rug is at 12000.00 and still going. $12000.00 will last a long time, and buy alot of things I need. I tend to run my own businesses as a norm, and so its easier for me to make work rather than hunt for a job, and more flexible timewise.

All in all to round off Id say start small, decide how you want to live, research areas till you find one you think will suit, look with an eye toward safety, food and water supply, easy access and egress, etc. buy a peice of property, and head that direction. Even if you cant buy property at this time, you could atleast move to the area, and get to know it and its people before starting the undertaking of building your refuge.
I hope this helped you out

Originally posted by Rossa
reply to post by haarvik

 

I started with finding property not totally off the grid, but in a remote area with the things I needed, space fpr animals, gardening, and ready water supply close by if the normal county water broke down. In my part of the country there is no such thing as "water rights" we dont pay anyone to water our animals, or garden unless you are using county owned water pipes to get it, and if you can find a peice of property with a natural spring all the better. And that is probobly best.

Just to clear up how the water rights work, you don't pay for the water you gain rights to it according to your proximity. So, in Wyoming if you live way out in the prairie somewhere you must wait for all the people closer to the mountain (where the water comes from) to water first. Everyone irrigates their land from these man-made ditches. Then sometimes late in the summer if there hasn't been a lot of water, they will release water from lakes into the smaller creeks which flow into the ditches that run through farmland, residentail properties etc.

Thanks for the replies. I guess my main intention would be under the radar. I want a simplistic life with as much self sustaining as I can. I remember my grandfather and his home in the mountains of Kentucky. He only went into town once a month. When I was able to visit in the summer, I would tend chickens, pick berries and chop firewood. Even though I work in IT, I think a simpler lifestyle is what we in America need. We need to get back to basics and forget all the crap that has turned our children into mindless Xbox drones. I notice it in my kids. They have no imagination. They feel slighted if they have to take the trash out. I have been in a technology society for so long I can't remember a lot of the simplistic things I did when I was a child. I want to get my family back to that life. A simple yet rewarding life. I also want to be able to survive the first round of SHTF and be ready for round two. I want to tech my children how to fend for themselves and not have to rely on society to survive.

reply to post by haarvik


Check out the blog by this couple from Seatlle. They were able to make "Off Grid" a reality. The link starts with the first post in May of 2009.

www.jenninewardle.com...

Alot of us that live off the grid, mine for gold to pay for the things we cant get around paying for. Unless you have a # load of cash sitting around, its going to take a bit of time to get to a "off the grid" status.