If Christianity does turn out to be the right religion...

Why would you want to worship and spend eternity in heaven with a god who's sending billions of good people to be tortured for all eternity on the sole basis that they didn't pick the right religion? Does god not understand the basic human psychology that a child will follow the religion of their parents almost all the time? When god's distributing out souls, how exactly does he decide which soul to give an edge to by putting them in a Christian family or Christain predominant country?

ETA: If a mod could fix the title, it would be much appreciated.

reply to post by BlackStar99


Haha good luck you wont change any ones views they believe in religion for a reason...
Click edit you can still edit the title

THANK YOU! It's so nice to see someone who thinks the same way i do. Good wishes

Isn't it said in the bible that admittance to heaven isn't based on whether your faith is Christianity but just that you have faith?

All religions are one.

Originally posted by BlackStar99
Why would you want to worship and spend eternity in heaven with a god who's sending billions of good people to be tortured for all eternity on the sole basis that they didn't pick the right religion? Does god not understand the basic human psychology that a child will follow the religion of their parents almost all the time? When god's distributing out souls, how exactly does he decide which soul to give an edge to by putting them in a Christian family or Christain predominant country?

No, you got it wrong. I'm a Christian and I worship a God who offers Salvation and a place in Heaven for Eternity. I'm not being forced to worship, and He isn't sending anyone to Hell.

I'll give you an analogy - imagine a child on the streets who has nothing, no family, no food, no means to survive, nothing to call his own.

A man comes along and offers this child food and water, a place in his mansion, and a family to call his own.

It's a gift, and the child would be foolish not to accept the offer - those who decline, what choice do they have? They're left on the streets. Earth will be destroyed, so there's only one place left to go - Hell.

It's not the hard of an idea to grasp, though I'll admit some people think it's too ridiculous that a God would just offer Salvation so freely, just for believing in Him - after all, that's all He demands, that you love Him and you love your fellow Human - something I would do anyways, willfully.

how exactly does he decide which soul to give an edge to by putting them in a Christian family or Christain predominant country?

To answer the second part of your question, God knows you from before you were born - He knows if you would believe in Him or not, given all opportunities.

It's quite simple actually, think of it like this: Let's say you go to the Horse Track and you know, 100% without a doubt, who is going to win. Will you bet all of your money on the losing Horse? No! You'll bet it all on the Horse that's going to win. Same with God. He knows who'll follow him to their deaths, and who will not. He's chosen His champions since before they were born. Why bother with those who would never believe even if they stood in front of His face?

Originally posted by BlackStar99
Why would you want to worship and spend eternity in heaven with a god who's sending billions of good people to be tortured for all eternity on the sole basis that they didn't pick the right religion? Does god not understand the basic human psychology that a child will follow the religion of their parents almost all the time? When god's distributing out souls, how exactly does he decide which soul to give an edge to by putting them in a Christian family or Christain predominant country?

ETA: If a mod could fix the title, it would be much appreciated.

edit on 23-6-2011 by BlackStar99 because: (no reason given)

edit on 23-6-2011 by BlackStar99 because: (no reason given)

It's grace. God distributes grace in souls. Love. it's in some, not in others. it's graces.

He made a sacrafice that distributes sanctifying grace. Without which, the human soul would have nothing but hate and bitterness in them. Without that grace he supplies, you can't love. It's saving grace. If grace wasn't real, evil wouldn't exist. Everybody would love. Some people don't have grace in them for reasons God only knows.

it's not like the souls in hell are good. All goodness is from him unless you run on self love.An arrogant awareness of your own goodness without true feeling inwardly.

God will lead ALL, trust me, ALL good souls to the right religion. I didn't grow up Catholic or christian.

I was led here. If he can do it with me he can do it and will do it with everyone who is sincere.


OP I'm begging you, just wait till the judgement seat. I garuntee you God will show you why each individual is in hell. It takes alot more than being in a wrong beleif which they can be led out of to go to hell.


I mean for the sake of argument. It's a win win situation for believers. I'm speaking for the doubtful Christians. If God's real they win, if God's false they win because nothing happens.

whereas Atheist. If God's false they win, but if God's real, they have to conform to a Godly lifestyle, so they can never have ease in their belief or faith whatever you wanna call it.

take care OP>


peace.

Originally posted by Lionhearte

Originally posted by BlackStar99
Why would you want to worship and spend eternity in heaven with a god who's sending billions of good people to be tortured for all eternity on the sole basis that they didn't pick the right religion? Does god not understand the basic human psychology that a child will follow the religion of their parents almost all the time? When god's distributing out souls, how exactly does he decide which soul to give an edge to by putting them in a Christian family or Christain predominant country?

No, you got it wrong. I'm a Christian and I worship a God who offers Salvation and a place in Heaven for Eternity. I'm not being forced to worship, and He isn't sending anyone to Hell.

I'll give you an analogy - imagine a child on the streets who has nothing, no family, no food, no means to survive, nothing to call his own.

A man comes along and offers this child food and water, a place in his mansion, and a family to call his own.

It's a gift, and the child would be foolish not to accept the offer - those who decline, what choice do they have? They're left on the streets. Earth will be destroyed, so there's only one place left to go - Hell.

It's not the hard of an idea to grasp, though I'll admit some people think it's too ridiculous that a God would just offer Salvation so freely, just for believing in Him - after all, that's all He demands, that you love Him and you love your fellow Human - something I would do anyways, willfully.

how exactly does he decide which soul to give an edge to by putting them in a Christian family or Christain predominant country?

To answer the second part of your question, God knows you from before you were born - He knows if you would believe in Him or not, given all opportunities.

It's quite simple actually, think of it like this: Let's say you go to the Horse Track and you know, 100% without a doubt, who is going to win. Will you bet all of your money on the losing Horse? No! You'll bet it all on the Horse that's going to win. Same with God. He knows who'll follow him to their deaths, and who will not. He's chosen His champions since before they were born. Why bother with those who would never believe even if they stood in front of His face?

edit on 23-6-2011 by Lionhearte because: (no reason given)

edit on 23-6-2011 by Lionhearte because: (no reason given)

Here's another analogy;

A homeless kid has spent all his life wandering the streets, he has no money, rarely eats, and only has tattered rags as clothes. 10 different wealthy men approach him and offers him a new home: a family, food, clothes, an education; a life. "But only under one circumstance. You have to believe that I'm going to give it to you and not any of these other guys. If you don't accept, well, I'm going to lock you in a 4'x4' cell and torture you the rest of your life"

What does he do?

reply to post by BlackStar99


Not quite, I don't know of any other religion that offers guaranteed salvation or a personal relationship with God.

Take Islam for example, you aren't guaranteed access into Heaven unless you die a martyr, otherwise, it's still a 50/50 shot.

reply to post by BlackStar99

. . .for all eternity on the sole basis that they didn't pick the right religion?

Any religion can present an array of gods.
We can choose which of these gods we want to take as our own.
If a particular religion had a representation of god which indicated a character of service to others, to be helpful to those who needed help, and we walked away from that god, in order to choose one that represented personal prosperity without regard for the ones that that wealth was removed from to put on our side of the ledger; then this may be comparable to a person brought up in a Christian home, deciding if this Jesus character was something we really want to identify with, and instead just take on the trappings of the religious in order to be socially accepted to be on the right track for business opportunities and self enrichment.
A person could be choosing Jesus, without ever having heard that name, by choosing the character which Jesus represents. When that person seeks their god in the spirit realm, Jesus will find him, and guide his life to be acceptable to God in the life hereafter.

reply to post by BlackStar99


I don't think any religion is good, certainly not the Christian version. All religions are about what I can do to justify myself to God. Redemption through the blood of Christ is not about what I do or don't do, it's about what He has already done for me.


(See: "Do You HATE religion as much as I do?" in my signature area.)

Originally posted by BEAST1E
Isn't it said in the bible that admittance to heaven isn't based on whether your faith is Christianity but just that you have faith?

Correct, "Religion" doesn't save anyone. Christ mocked the religious people the most when He was here. Jesus is the way, not religion.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by BlackStar99

 

I don't think any religion is good, certainly not the Christian version. All religions are about what I can do to justify myself to God. Redemption through the blood of Christ is not about what I do or don't do, it's about what He has already done for me.


(See: "Do You HATE religion as much as I do?" in my signature area.)

That's exactly the way I feel. I'll admit that for the earlier half of my life I didn't quite understand what this meant, perhaps it's just the human nature that makes us feel like we need to do something in order to be loved.

Though, that's what makes it all the more amazing, the love of God is just so powerful it's hard to grasp.

reply to post by Lionhearte


It's a product of the "reward/punishment" behavior modification we grew up with as children in a majority of cases. But the parable of the Prodigal Son highlights the Father's love toward us, that while we were completely rebellious He sent His Son to do everything for us. He knew we were powerless to do it ourselves. Christ gets the praise and glory for what He did, we just accept with humble joy.

reply to post by Lionhearte


You wrote:

["It's not the hard of an idea to grasp, though I'll admit some people think it's too ridiculous that a God would just offer Salvation so freely, just for believing in Him - after all, that's all He demands, that you love Him and you love your fellow Human - something I would do anyways, willfully."]

Didn't you forget to mention one detail? That 'salvation' only has meaning, if the concept 'original sin' is valid.

Personally I consider the 'original sin' doctrine amongst the most irrational and least validated of all theist speculations from all religions.

The ridiculous you mention in the quote above isn't about offering salvation. It should be used on the 'original sin' doctrine.

reply to post by bogomil


The concept of 'original sin', as in, the events of the fall of man aren't necessarily what's up for debate here. After all, take a look around you, our world is not perfect. It's evident that man in it's current state is fallen. After all, if this was a perfect world, it would be filled with perfect people, we'd have the perfect lives, with no need for salvation.

reply to post by bogomil

. . .'original sin' doctrine amongst the most irrational. . .

Collect a few examples of perfect people to show as your evidence that it is wrong. People generally have a natural inclination to do things that are wrong. Now the Catholic idea that original sin can be nullified through a priestly ritual is ridiculous.
Jesus is in the world spiritually in order to give us direction towards the goal of being a good person. That is our salvation, which is the good shepherd to guide us into the promised land.

I was watching a program last night about early humans, the battle between homo sapiens and homo erectus. It made me realise that we have probably had lots of different sorts of religions before the 2000 year old christianity. Some probably lasted a lot longer.

Originally posted by BEAST1E
Isn't it said in the bible that admittance to heaven isn't based on whether your faith is Christianity but just that you have faith?

No, it does not say that. Christ is THE way, THE truth and THE life. There is only one path.

Originally posted by BlackStar99

Here's another analogy;

A homeless kid has spent all his life wandering the streets, he has no money, rarely eats, and only has tattered rags as clothes. 10 different wealthy men approach him and offers him a new home: a family, food, clothes, an education; a life. "But only under one circumstance. You have to believe that I'm going to give it to you and not any of these other guys. If you don't accept, well, I'm going to lock you in a 4'x4' cell and torture you the rest of your life"

What does he do?

Praise allah?