Left vs Right.. Why it doesn't matter, they are both wrong.. and why mainstream media is also bunk

I'm so tired of debating points to either side.. I spent a large part of my day debating a conservative about the BP oil spill and he went on to tell me that nature took care of 90% of it and that us liberals were over exaggerating.. and that it never hit shore.. I don't think anyone here needs a brain to know none of that is true, and I've been there on the beaches to know it's definitely come to land.

The biggest problem with politics is corporate influence and lobbyists.. the two main parties are their focus, and now probably also the tea party movement .. nevertheless, when a particular star emerges on the political scene lobbyists are sure to follow, those lobbyists reflect corporate interests.. ultimately whomever has the biggest pocket book will buy their candidate via financing their campaign to get them in office..

It doesn't end there because corporations, the same people who send those lobbyists out there.. control the advertising that funds your television.. I think the ultimate outcome is that regardless who you vote for, republican or democrat.. the usual outcome is corporate interest.. in other words, whether obama won, or hillary.. or anyone else, I think there's a good chance we'd be right where we are... if we can ever come out of this mess all depends on how far it goes... I am reminded of a recent comcast event where the FCC comissioner ( I could have her position wrong, forgive me ) but this woman voted for something that favored comcast, and when the deal went through she announced she accepted a high ranking position AT comcast .. that is corruption.. and as long as ANYTHING like that is permitted, we're screwed.. the dollar wins..

I don't know who to tell you to vote for, or what network is best to watch.. all I can advise to you is clear the wax out of your ears and listen to all sides... listen to your friends even if they oppose you and ask why... and even try listening to foreign media.. it's the only way you can get any sort of educated sense of what the reality of any situation is anymore.. media is bought out just as much as our politicians are..

It is the American way and corporations should have as much access to politicians as the normal person. Instead of complaining that corporations run everything you should be motivated to go and lobby Congress yourself for your views.

I know you will think it's impossible but it isn't. One lady who was upset that Congress was not passing laws to protect the elderly single handedly started a lobbying campaign for Congress to take up this issue. She was adamant and got some changes to happen. Other people heard of her work and joined her cause which grew into an organization.

Today that organization is called AARP and it is more feared by politicians than any corporate group out there. One lady did this, on her own, instead of complaining she actually took action which for anyone who feels left out of the system should use as an example.

I don't think it's impossible and I've supported such efforts financially but money wins.. the biggest dollar gets the candidate .. you may think having the majority rules, but it really does not.. it's hard to beat corporate influence.

If I was an American I would try to ban lobbyist from existing. I would then limit Congress to one, maybe two max terms. Maybe this would start a path toward people that were truly looking out for the interest of the country. Maybe they would think and anaylize decisions, keeping in mind what is best for the country.

If you think about it, the entire political system is set up to create vote buying, and pandering to people that are mostly concerned about sound bits and how things sound and look (instead of what effect they would really have).

Think of this, if in your job, you had to reapply every 2-4 years,and there were several people that wanted you job, how would you react? You would act like............a politican!

I am not a fan of big corporations, but at least they have a budget and have to produce something that creates black ink, not red. In government, the name fo the game is to buy votes with other peoples money, get re elected and pay off your supporters.

Who really cares? I say the the left and right run this country into the ground.

That's our only hope!

reply to post by miniatus


The first thing I learned in my first political science class was that a politician will do whatever it takes to remain in power. Generally speaking of course.

Votes will trump money almost every time. And as far as corporations having more influence that is true but the wealthy and powerful have always had more access to politicians than the general public since the country was founded. Still the people often win.

Look at Teddy the trustbuster who took on the monopoly's which had far more power than any single corporation today. I'm sure he was being lobbied very hard by the steel, railroad, and meat industry's yet the outcry's from the public persuaded him.

This does not always happen of course but to throw your arms up in the air and give up won't accomplish anything either. Corporations are there to make money and some of these policy's or laws could seriously hurt their business so I would lobby for my point of view also. I see nothing wrong with that.

Look at the Vietnam war. Many corporations were lobbying Congress for one thing or another I imagine but the people's unwillingness to put up with it changed the policy of the United States, same thing with Civil Rights. People clearly trumped over those wealthy powerful people saying not to give in.

There are many examples and i'm sure they could be found today if you were to look.

reply to post by Rockdisjoint


I've seen numerous posts from you.. you seem to be "meh, who cares.. let's see what happens" .. I personally care

would have been nice to see that word unions in there but its not so i guess i will chalk this thread up to just another hate the rich evil corporations.

reply to post by kro32


I appreciate your response, it's well thought out .. thank you

Originally posted by neo96
would have been nice to see that word unions in there but its not so i guess i will chalk this thread up to just another hate the rich evil corporations.

Not at all .. i don't hate the rich, I love the majority .. I choose to live in it so I should respect it

reply to post by miniatus


I don't really think it's a left-right or even a liberal-conservative struggle.

I think there are basically two kinds of people: Those who want to control everybody else, and those who just want to be left the hell alone.

EDIT: BTW S & F OP

Let me be clear here, what I oppose primarily is mindless towing of the party line.. and my experience has been people supporting their candidate mainly because they are a member of the party... I am saying we need to push people to understand core values .. and pressure that point ..

Partisan politics is a form of warfare perpetuated by the media who is owned by the international bankers that use it as a tactic of DIVIDE AND CONQUER to take over the "free" world.

It is so PAINFULLY OBVIOUS, but most people are too brainwashed to see it.

The biggest war is the war for your mind, and if you buy into politics, you are losing.

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKKKKKKKKKKKEEEEEEEEEEEEEE UUUUUUUUUUUUUUPPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by miniatus
I'm so tired of debating points to either side.. I spent a large part of my day debating a conservative about the BP oil spill and he went on to tell me that nature took care of 90% of it and that us liberals were over exaggerating.. and that it never hit shore.. I don't think anyone here needs a brain to know none of that is true, and I've been there on the beaches to know it's definitely come to land.

The biggest problem with politics is corporate influence and lobbyists.. the two main parties are their focus, and now probably also the tea party movement .. nevertheless, when a particular star emerges on the political scene lobbyists are sure to follow, those lobbyists reflect corporate interests.. ultimately whomever has the biggest pocket book will buy their candidate via financing their campaign to get them in office..

It doesn't end there because corporations, the same people who send those lobbyists out there.. control the advertising that funds your television.. I think the ultimate outcome is that regardless who you vote for, republican or democrat.. the usual outcome is corporate interest.. in other words, whether obama won, or hillary.. or anyone else, I think there's a good chance we'd be right where we are... if we can ever come out of this mess all depends on how far it goes... I am reminded of a recent comcast event where the FCC comissioner ( I could have her position wrong, forgive me ) but this woman voted for something that favored comcast, and when the deal went through she announced she accepted a high ranking position AT comcast .. that is corruption.. and as long as ANYTHING like that is permitted, we're screwed.. the dollar wins..

I don't know who to tell you to vote for, or what network is best to watch.. all I can advise to you is clear the wax out of your ears and listen to all sides... listen to your friends even if they oppose you and ask why... and even try listening to foreign media.. it's the only way you can get any sort of educated sense of what the reality of any situation is anymore.. media is bought out just as much as our politicians are..

Miniatus - I couldn't agree with you more and you have perfectly articulated how I've felt for a long time. This is why I usually choose to stay away from discussions relative to politics unless I've had several good nights' sleep and my patience meter is fully charged. I've become extremely disillusioned by the manner in which many people choose which politicians to support and have found that once the choice is made, their attachment to that political party is more or less cut in stone. I've witnessed this in many of my own friends, most of whom I consider mature and intellegent individuals who, for some reason, will continue to vote along party lines instead of looking at the issues independent of labels. I've come to believe that it's been crafted that way by the political strategists who have found and continue to reinforce the formula to incite polarization. As for lobbyists or the big corporate self-interest groups who fund those particular wheels, there is nothing nice I can say about any of them so I'll do my mama proud and remember what she taught me - "if you can't say ANYTHING nice...". Left, right, liberal, conservative - the true definitions of these words have become so distorted as to bare no resemblence to their actual definitions so why bother even trying to argue? Your last paragraph sums up what I've been practicing for the last 10 years or so and the one positive comment I'll end with is that I've instilled those same ideals in my children who will hopefully grow up to be independent thinkers. This gives me hope for the future but time will tell. In any event, thanks for a well written and articulate post.

Timidgal

reply to post by miniatus


Awesome post and I totally agree with you! S&F. Seems so difficult to even have dialog these days and you are absolutely correct - it almost doesn't matter at the end of the day it is all about the money.

reply to post by kro32


Been involved - written bills. Lobbied for my interests. I've done this in two Statehouses. I think times have changed since the days AARP was formed. I honestly want to believe it is just that easy and I agree we all need to take personal ownership and get involved - unfortunately I have also seen the dark side of the pressure that can be exerted when your idea is not popular or you are a threat to a highly monied interest. In my case I was a witness in a situation where the Anthrax Vaccine was being questioned. I saw who they flew in to silence the Doctor who's testimony was key. Scary.

I heard something on this recently that I found really eye-opening. Dr Paul Craig Roberts (worked with Reagan) spoke about this and said that back in the 70's, we had the democrats, supported mostly by labor unions, and the republicans, supported by big business. Each tended to have their financial supporters interests at heart.
But in the 80's, the work was shipped overseas, essentially busting the unions as the factories closed. So the democrats had to get their funding from big business, along with the republicans. Now, they both tend to focus on big business and threir needs, not the working class.
I have thought for some time that "they're all the same" but could never put my finger on why.
I'd post a video, but I'm a newbie and dont' know how yet. He's all over youtube, very vocal now about the economic problems and very respected.

Thank you all very much for the responses.. let me ask.. if you could take 3 major steps to fix our situation.. what would it be?

Originally posted by miniatus
Thank you all very much for the responses.. let me ask.. if you could take 3 major steps to fix our situation.. what would it be?

edit on 23-6-2011 by miniatus because: (no reason given)

Believe me, if I could come up with just one, I would consider changing careers to the public policy sector but the reality is that we are so enmeshed in our own political mess, I'm not sure there is a solution short of some cataclysmic event occurring which renders all of this polarized nonsense inconsequential and snaps the masses out of the daze they've been in. What a heck of a choice and I get chills even typing those words but it's how I feel - not very constructive, I realize, but honest nonetheless...

Timidgal

I am not a pusher of A.J. , but this is one of Alex Jones's main themes...

which puts me in his corner,... for the most part...

Breaking away from the left-right paradigm is a good start, imo...