The Intelligent UFO Thread.

This thread is specifically for intelligent discussion only. If a thread already exists then delete this one. I read this site everyday but as you can see rarely post because much of the posts irritate the hell out of me, not just on this forum on most of them. If you have claims of being abducted or your mailman is a reptilian underling, or you found of a video of a blinking light in the sky and feel it is undeniable proof we are being visited, save it for another thread please.

Anyway, I guess we should all start by telling a little bit about ourselves. I'm 27, and have been studying the phenomenon since I was about five years old when I first saw films such as Close Encounters and E.T., and the idea of other life in the universe intrigued me greatly. I've personally never had any encounters other than seeing a bright ball of light traveling at high speed through the night sky, but it could have been anything and surprisingly I wasn't very impressed.

I am also strictly interested in the subject for the science aspect of it. I love technology and would be thrilled to get my hands on it and learn it, and also learn about the species and where they're from and what their home planet and society are like, etc. I was interested in the conspiracy side of it when I was younger, but not so much anymore. My feeling is that if the government does know, which it's almost undeniable that they do, I don't blame them for keeping it a secret. If we had their technology in our hands of course we would want to be the only ones who had it and exploited it and not have it in the hands of the wrong people/governments. I feel myself and everyone here want and are ready for disclosure but am still on the fence as to whether or not the entire world would be due to panic and fear which could potentially lead to chaos and anarchy, especially from the religious perspective. I personally don't think there will ever be full and ultimate disclosure as in just releasing mass documents or admitting it in a press conference or what have you, I think what's going on now with astronauts and former government and military officials coming out with their stories is the way it's going to be and the way the government wants it. I applaud the countries in South America and Europe who have begun releasing documents, but feel the U.S. doing so would be a completely different animal, because I believe they have the ultimate information, and am not even sure the governments that have started to do so are even releasing every thing that they have.

My favorite cases to research over the years were the Hill's case, Rendlesham, and the Ancient Alien theory. Area 51 and Roswell both bore me now and I find uninteresing just due to the fact I've heard every piece of information on them and there is nothing new I can learn from them. I believe the Roswell incident, and as far as Area 51 is concerned I've always felt people were overstepping their boundaries because even if there are UFO's or alien technology in general there, there are still other top secret programs going on that quite frankly no one needs to know about due to our enemies getting it or knowing what they're dealing with.

The Ancient Alien theory is about the only thing I'm focusing on right now because it's the only case that is still giving me information I haven't heard yet. I don't believe in all of it, but find a different perspective refreshing and do believe there is an abundance of evidence that they were visited and knew of other civilizations in the stars. Some of the most interesting aspects of that subject are the Mayans(obviously), the Nazca people and the Bible theories.

To me the most credible sources come from government and military officials who seem to be very credible people and most of the witnesses I've seen from those fields don't seem the type to come forward with lies and/or propaganda. Some of the best video evidence I've seen are the famed NASA tapes, the mass sighting in Mexico City, and other various videos I've seen in documentaries such as Out Of The Blue and I Know What I Saw.

Hopefully this thread spawns some intelligent, rational conversation and debate because there's so much B.S. within the subject from people making outrageous claims, to outrageous filmmakers making B.S. documentaries and producing really ignorant moronic crap just for the sake of making a dollar. The two documentaries I mentioned in the previous paragraph are two of the best I've ever seen, and are a model that all future UFO documentary makers need to look at it if they want to make an intelligent, informed documentary.

I guess that's all I have for now, sorry for the long post just figured I'd try and cover everything about myself so that you all know what kind of poster you're dealing with and know a lot about me and my perspective on the subject. Looking forward to your replies.

Originally posted by MadhatterTheGreat
Some of the best video evidence I've seen are ...the mass sighting in Mexico City...

I understand what you're trying to start with this thread, but maybe its best to stick with generalities rather than specific incidents or sightings, because as soon as you mention one then you'll get sidetracked with discussion of that specific sighting, and that will go on for pages and pages and pages.
Example - the one you describe here is Venus, as seen by astronomers who were there in Mexico City on that day.
I've said all I need to in this other thread on the topic, so I wont say any more here.
Clear Daylight Massive UFO Sighting

Ancient alien theory fascinates me, too. I have heard tales that one of the tribes in Africa knew that Sirius was a binary star system for thousands of years before it was discovered by scientists. I believe they're called the Dogon. They claim to have this knowledge from ancient alien visitors. It is interesting to me that various cultures from around the world seem to have ancient alien stories.

In terms of the technology, I would guess some sort of nuclear reactor fuels the engines to their ships if they have been here. Either that, or perhaps they have found ways to manipulate the quirky ways in which sub-atomic particles behave.

@alpha

I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the sighting where many of them were seen at the same time. And yes, it's perfectly OK to mention specific incidents and keep it to an intelligent discussion/debate and weed out all of the nonsense, but yes I am looking for more of a general debate on the subject itself, but there's nothing wrong with mentioning specific incidents that intrigued someone.

reply to post by MadhatterTheGreat


I Can see why you don't post that often, other people have different interests and opinions, they may not take it nicely when its all called BS.

I'm 27, and have been studying the phenomenon since I was about five years old

Was that in between drooling and staring out of the window - hell of a student.

reply to post by MadhatterTheGreat


I've been really into the Ancient Astronaut Theory lately as well. Not believing everything I hear about it of course, but a lot of it seems to make sense, in my mind at least.

Something I read about fairy recently and haven't heard much discussion on is the Dogon tribe. Pretty interesting stuff in my opinion. If you already have knowledge on it, then forgive me for wasting your time

Acccording to Robert Temple's Book The Sirius Mystery, the Dogon, a tribe of about 100,000 in western Africa, have had contact with extraterrestrials. One of Temple's main pieces of evidence is the tribe's alleged knowledge of Sirius B, a companion to the star Sirius. The Dogon are supposed to know that Sirius B orbits Sirius and that a complete orbit takes fifty years. One of the pieces of evidence Temple cites is a sand picture made by the Dogon to explain their beliefs. There are a number of other astronomical beliefs held by the Dogon which are curious; e.g., traditional belief in a heliocentric system and elliptical orbits of astronomical phenomena; knowledge of satellites of Jupiter and rings of Saturn, among other things. Where did they get this knowledge, if not from extraterrestrial visitors? They don't have telescopes or other scientific equipment, so how could they get this knowledge?

I suggest reading the rest of the article here if it sparks your interest

reply to post by gnosticquasar


beat me to the punch.. lol
Always glad to find similar interest

Originally posted by MadhatterTheGreat

This thread is specifically for intelligent discussion only.

I am also strictly interested in the subject for the science aspect of it. I love technology and would be thrilled to get my hands on it and learn it, and also learn about the species and where they're from and what their home planet and society are like, etc.

To me the most credible sources come from government and military officials who seem to be very credible people and most of the witnesses I've seen from those fields don't seem the type to come forward with lies and/or propaganda.

Interesting. Your thread is titled The Intelligent UFO Thread. You state you seek an intelligent discussion of UFOs and then immediately begin claiming that 'they' exist and have advanced technology you'd like to get your hands on. Amusingly, you continue with declarations that government and military officials appear credible and, essentially, beyond reproach - no lies or propaganda.

I would think an 'intelligent' discussion would begin with facts - maybe a look at evidence (in the absence of proof), or perhaps a stirring debate as to 'their' existence at all. I really don't see an 'intelligent' discussion beginning based upon your particular beliefs with the corresponding boundaries imposed.

An exchange of ideas or beliefs is fine, but would be more properly served if qualified up front.

As I'm sure you will readily agree, I don't think I have anything more to contribute here.

A couple of you misunderstood me. I have no problem with someone posting whatever they believe, but do so in an intelligent manner without sensationalism, and I know a lot of people would agree with me that there are a lot of posts in that manner and I have seen many members complaining about such posts which is why I asked they be left out. The fact I believe certain things doesn't contradict anything I asked for in the thread. If someone believes we were created by a reptilian alien race so that they may be entertained in between orgies and worshipping the dark lord of the universe, that's fine by me just be intelligent and respectful about it. Some of you are pretty sensitive.

I too find Ancient Astronaut Theory interesting, but more so entertaining. The problem i have with it is that it is more religious then it is scientific. The show 'Ancient Aliens' for example portrays itself as being somewhat scientific, pseudo-scientific if you will. The main problem i have with it is this; science is the observation of forces and processes which occur in the world. It draws no conclusions. It only analyses, assesses, studies, then, after a hypothesis has been scrutinized, if it passes, it becomes a scientific law/understanding. Religion, starts with a conclusion, then gathers what evidence it can to support its conclusion. This is what i feel Ancient Astronaut Theory does, and it pisses me off, for following this path to knowledge, will never lead you to the truth.

There are many interesting anomalies in the world. Many things we dont know and yet understand. Are we the result of genetic manipulations from higher beings? Possibly. I wish we didn't jump to the conclusions first, then work our way backwards.

What happens when the wrong mentality and viewpoint is applied, is a fertile ground of ignorance which is ripe with hoaxes, conspiracy, exaggerations and what not. Overall this discredits the entire movement, and is detrimental to the goal of understanding, who/what is out there.

I'm not really here to derail this thread, or to throw cold water on Ancient Astronaut theories.

However, something I see quite a lot (and I speak from the perspective of a 60-year-old believer) is "searchers" such as some of you who only read the books and don't rely upon your native skepticism and ability to think independently. That's one of the reasons you see posters not only here, but on many other forums, stating some of the most absurd and bizarre claptrap as "facts," when it's really only their beliefs gathered from many single sources--in effect creating and reinforcing mythologies, rather than seeking the truth.

The Dogon are a perfect example of this. You *must* take these stories with a grain of salt or you'll be misled into all kinds of traps for the unwary "believer."

To get to the point: Here's some deep independent investigation on the Dogon--and it comes from a group of "skeptical believers" at the ufoevidence.org website.

Skeptical: The Sirius Lie (excerpt)

With this, the Dogon mystery comes to a crashing halt. The Sirius Mystery influenced more than twenty years of thinking about our possible ancestry from "forefathers" who have come from the stars. In 1996, Temple was quick to point out the new speculation in scientific circles on the possible existence of Sirius C, which made the claims by Griaule even more spectacular and accurate. But Temple was apparently not aware of Van Beek's recent research. With this new research of both Van Beek and the authors of Ancient Mysteries, we uncover how Griaule himself was responsible for the creation of a modern myth, which, in retrospect, has created such an industry and almost religious belief that the scope and intensity can hardly be fathomed. Nigel Appleby, in his withdrawn publication Hall of the Gods, which was, according to Appleby himself, tremendously influenced by Temple's book, Appleby spoke about how Temple believed that present-day authorities were apparently unwilling to set aside the blinkers of orthodoxy or were unable to admit the validity of anything that lies outside their field or offers a challenge to its status quo. He further wondered whether there was also a modern arrogance that could not countenance the possible scientific superiority of earlier civilisations. It seems, alas, that Griaule, a scientist, wanted to give earlier civilisations more knowledge than they actually possessed. And various popular authors and readers have since been led into a modern mythology, the "Age of the Dark Sirius Companion".

Please: In all your studies, Deny Ignorance....

Originally posted by MadhatterTheGreat
Some of the best video evidence I've seen are ...the mass sighting in Mexico City...

then this is not an intelligent UFO thread

reply to post by MadhatterTheGreat


i would give this thread a anti flag if i could..i mean u talk of "intelligent" discussion and exclude already the possibility of people who have direct experiences ..

u call that intelligent?

I know what you wanted to say, but I don't think you did yourself justice.

Due to that, this thread will not take off and will attract comments that will make you go back into the shadows.

Sorry my friend.

Originally posted by MadhatterTheGreat
@alpha

I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the sighting where many of them were seen at the same time. And yes, it's perfectly OK to mention specific incidents and keep it to an intelligent discussion/debate and weed out all of the nonsense, but yes I am looking for more of a general debate on the subject itself, but there's nothing wrong with mentioning specific incidents that intrigued someone.

edit on 23-6-2011 by MadhatterTheGreat because: General edit.

Hello Madhatter,

Perhaps you are referring to the 2004 Guadalajara incident (UFO Fleet) in Mexico, reportedly analyzed by the infamous Jaime Maussan.

Screenshot:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c27f2b5a25b0.jpg[/atsimg]


It has been discussed many time here on ATS and it had been proven that they are birds. Someone had the unedited video (with the audio) where you could very clearly hear them.

Here's is a thread that talks about it:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

And here's a thread, put up by GeminiSky, where it is discussed further more, along with other Maussan cases.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

My opinion is that Mr Maussan is just an opportunist and holds no credibility whatsoever.

The Hill's case and Rendelsham incident are fascinating. You also might want to check out the JAL 1628 case, it's one of my favorites.

Here's a good thread on it:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Now, as far as whistleblowers go, I take everything with a grain of salt. I found out that, very often, words and phrases spoken by officials - military, government, astronauts - are taken way out of context.

I used to follow Project Camelot but like many others in this field, they went money hungry. Now, they just plan conventions with the same ol' same ol'...Kerry will do anything for a buck and Bill is just too gullible...

Finally, I wouldn't take down claims of abductions if I were you. Sure, a lot can be explained and many are. Yet, there are cases where you just can't deny that something happened for which there are no scientific explanation.

reply to post by SonoftheSun
reply to post by MadhatterTheGreat

The main reason that whistle blower testimony is still important is that these are the guys who would know if there was a cover up. They also were in a position to be witnesses. They are often experts too (i.e. pilots, officers). Frequently they also appear to be taking risks by coming out with this information - unless of course they are spreading disinformation under orders.

Most of the other evidence can be faked now so is of little value. Other types of witness are less credible as they do not have the expertise. Short of a landing at the Super Bowl or meeting the aliens yourself, that's some of the best info. There is lots of other stuff too if your interested of course....

reply to post by Pimander


Hello Pimander,

Whistleblowers. I take everything with a grain of salt...

It doesn't mean I dismiss it all. There are some out there that have given out very interesting testimony. And very interesting deathbed confessions. But I am very careful as to what I believe as I found out that words and phrases are very often taken out of context.

Sorry if I wasn't clear about that...

reply to post by SonoftheSun

Agreed. Some are definitely bending the truth. All of them lying? Not a chance!

Some of the Roswell living and death bed affidavits are extremely interesting.

Haut Affadavit

If anyone wants more it is out there.

How I view the Alien/UFO phenomena is to start with creation. I think we can all agree that there is intelligent design in creation. Unfortunately, both the mainstream scientific and religious establishments are currently sunk in deep denial about the possibility of extraterrestrial presence, which makes it impossible to arrive at a clear understanding that could guide mankind along the optimum path to separate the godhead (the infinite creator) from superior beings.

Every major religion recounts tales of celestial beings coming from the sky, whether they are called valkyries, apsaras, devas or angels. Whether or not they wear spacesuits and fly around in spaceships, they all have extraterritoriality in common. Could so many culture be wrong?...clearly there is something out there.

Originally posted by kauskau
reply to post by MadhatterTheGreat

 

i would give this thread a anti flag if i could..i mean u talk of "intelligent" discussion and exclude already the possibility of people who have direct experiences ..

u call that intelligent?

Yes, I for one would agree with that. Anyone making personal extraordinary claims of that which they themselves cannot substantiate in the least are to be viewed as an absolute hindrance, and an utter distraction, from the REAL issue of the UFO phenomenon.

Personally, I believe that anyone making such claims, that is unwilling to go the REAL subjective distance to scientifically substantiate what would most likely be the most important experiential occurrence of all time, is most likely a LIAR. Remember: Even if you yourself believe something extraordinary is happening to you with all your heart and mind, and then you proclaim to the world "I am being abducted by aliens!", you are still LYING unless the matter has been SUBSTANTIATED. Ignorance is no excuse and the VERY BEST in scientific facilitation is available to you, and yet you run away. That's complete BS.