Where Have All The Planes Gone?

reply to post by chrismicha77

You really should read before you post a link.

As the title of the paper states, it is a cost analysis. It is a projection on what it would cost to carry out various geoengineering proposals. They talk about airships. They talk about rockets and guns. They talk about gas and slurry pipes. There is nothing about any of the proposals being carried out.

Existing aircraft are evaluated based on cost of acquisition and operations. An in-depth new aircraft design study and cost analysis was conducted to determine the cost of developing and operating a dedicated geoengineering airplane type. Similarly, an airship design study and cost analysis was conducted. Finally a survey of non-aircraft systems was conducted to determine how their costs compare to aircraft and airships.

3 Basis for Cost Models
Cost estimates of airplanes and other engineered systems are developed through the use of statistical cost estimating relationships (CER). CERs are based on historical costs of development programs and use one or more input variables such as the empty weight of an aircraft, flight hours per year, or 􀇻V of a rocket to solve for a variety of output values such as engineering hours, spare parts cost, or cost of personnel. In the case of CERs that output labor hours, a labor rate is used to determine the cost of labor. Payload supply line costs are not included in operations costs (the payload is assumed to be at the air base ready for loading). Air base infrastructure improvement, ramp lease costs, and landing fees are not included in operations or start up costs.

theintelhubradio.com...

reply to post by adeclerk


Hmm. I was in the hospital 3 months ago with abdominal pain from what was determined to be a virus. I was in care for 4 days. Before they determined what it was, I went through a series of tests (first x-ray, blood tests, urine tests; followed by colonoscopy and x-ray where I had to drink some sort of barium liquid). Off topic, but the most vile tasting thing I have ever consumed was the liquid they gave me to eliminate my bowels prior to the colonoscopy. And the most painful thing in my life, aside from the pain of the issue I was having, was from the colonoscopy having to go all the way up into the area by the opening of my stomach which enters into the intestines (sorry not a doctor so I am explaining it best I can, also sorry if this grosses people out). None of these tests yielded any results, so I was given a barium drink (also disgusting tasting and I will not comment on the effects this had on bodily functions) to give contrast to my 2nd x-ray.

Long story short, had horrible debilitating pain, given barium drink for x-ray as other tests failed...should I be worried about any side effects?

Sorry this is of topic but it is at least in reply to a post ITT.

Originally posted by upgrayeddc310t
reply to post by adeclerk

 

Hmm. I was in the hospital 3 months ago with abdominal pain from what was determined to be a virus. I was in care for 4 days. Before they determined what it was, I went through a series of tests (first x-ray, blood tests, urine tests; followed by colonoscopy and x-ray where I had to drink some sort of barium liquid). Off topic, but the most vile tasting thing I have ever consumed was the liquid they gave me to eliminate my bowels prior to the colonoscopy. And the most painful thing in my life, aside from the pain of the issue I was having, was from the colonoscopy having to go all the way up into the area by the opening of my stomach which enters into the intestines (sorry not a doctor so I am explaining it best I can, also sorry if this grosses people out). None of these tests yielded any results, so I was given a barium drink (also disgusting tasting and I will not comment on the effects this had on bodily functions) to give contrast to my 2nd x-ray.

Long story short, had horrible debilitating pain, given barium drink for x-ray as other tests failed...should I be worried about any side effects?

Sorry this is of topic but it is at least in reply to a post ITT.

edit on 24-6-2011 by upgrayeddc310t because: typo

It's a contrast fluid, they can see inside otherwise invisible organs (xrays don't show soft tissue so well) with it because it reflects the radiation (doesnt absorb it).

That's not the only inaccuracy in that chemmies posts, I assure you.

reply to post by Phage


Phage I'm not going to sit here and get into a big debate over this with you. You have NO proof that they have not gone and implemented this into action. It says "study" in the report and tell me how can they know, all the cost & volume of chemicals to use, without experimenting already?

David Keith has already said that using aluminum is much cheaper over sulpher. So, how did all these people, who claim aluminum is in their drinking water, high levels of aluminum in their soil samples, and associated health issues, know what they were "thinking" about spraying? I'm assuming you think they were just hoaxing all this for attemping.

Fact is is that regardless of what you or the others think or say, won't sway the minds of people the likes of me, who know that something isn't right.

Anyway, I'm sure you've all seen this video before and will say once again it's been debunked. And that they are "thinking" about geoengineering but it's not happening now.

Originally posted by adeclerk

Originally posted by upgrayeddc310t
reply to post by adeclerk

 

Hmm. I was in the hospital 3 months ago with abdominal pain from what was determined to be a virus. I was in care for 4 days. Before they determined what it was, I went through a series of tests (first x-ray, blood tests, urine tests; followed by colonoscopy and x-ray where I had to drink some sort of barium liquid). Off topic, but the most vile tasting thing I have ever consumed was the liquid they gave me to eliminate my bowels prior to the colonoscopy. And the most painful thing in my life, aside from the pain of the issue I was having, was from the colonoscopy having to go all the way up into the area by the opening of my stomach which enters into the intestines (sorry not a doctor so I am explaining it best I can, also sorry if this grosses people out). None of these tests yielded any results, so I was given a barium drink (also disgusting tasting and I will not comment on the effects this had on bodily functions) to give contrast to my 2nd x-ray.

Long story short, had horrible debilitating pain, given barium drink for x-ray as other tests failed...should I be worried about any side effects?

Sorry this is of topic but it is at least in reply to a post ITT.

edit on 24-6-2011 by upgrayeddc310t because: typo

It's a contrast fluid, they can see inside otherwise invisible organs (xrays don't show soft tissue so well) with it because it reflects the radiation (doesnt absorb it).

That's not the only inaccuracy in that chemmies posts, I assure you.

You should study some more before calling me out!!

Barium sulfate is frequently used clinically as a radiocontrast agent for X-ray imaging and other diagnostic procedures. It is most often used in imaging of the GI tract during what is colloquially known as a 'barium meal'. It is administered, orally or by enema, as a suspension of fine particles in an aqueous solution (often with sweetening agents added). Although barium is a heavy metal, and its water-soluble compounds are often highly toxic, the low solubility of barium sulfate protects the patient from absorbing harmful amounts of the metal. Barium sulfate is also readily removed from the body, unlike Thorotrast, which it replaced. Due to the relatively high atomic number (Z = 56) of barium, its compounds absorb X-rays more strongly than compounds derived from lighter nuclei.

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by chrismicha77

I showed you the section in the report which says how they developed the cost analysis. As explained in the report, the estimates for the amounts of material required are based on computer models.

There are no samples which show high levels of aluminum in soil or drinking water.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

The fact is, what you "know" is based on fear, ignorance, and gullibility.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by chrismicha77

 

I showed you the section in the report which says how they developed the cost analysis. As explained in the report, the estimates for the amounts of material required are based on computer models.

There are no samples which show high levels of aluminum in soil or drinking water.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

The fact is, what you "know" is based on fear, ignorance, and gullibility.

edit on 6/24/2011 by Phage because: (no reason given)

Right and I guess having to geoengineer crops for aluminum resistance, is just for the heck of it.

Good to know, but I could say the about you.

reply to post by chrismicha77

Aluminum in soils is a problem. Always has been. Aluminum is everywhere but it's only a problem for crops in acidic soils.
www.plantstress.com...

Funny thing about that. In "What in the World..." they claim that the "spraying" is making the soil more alkaline. That means less acid. That means that aluminum isn't a problem for plants. Seems like Monsanto would be complaining about how the spraying is screwing up their plan. Either that or the fools who made the movie blew it (again).

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by chrismicha77

 

Aluminum in soils is a problem. Always has been. Aluminum is everywhere but it's only a problem for crops in acidic soils.
www.plantstress.com...

Funny thing about that. In "What in the World..." they claim that the "spraying" is making the soil more alkaline. That means less acid. That means that aluminum isn't a problem for plants. Seems like Monsanto would be complaining about how the spraying is screwing up their plan. Either that or the fools who made the movie blew it (again).

Your trees and flowers are able to live and thrive in acidic soils but the plants that we eat, need to be in a pH of 6.0 to 7.5. A swimming pool with a pH of 7.0 or lower isn't swimmable due to the irritation on skin and eyes. But I'm sure plants are a little more resilient.

N is supplied as ammonium (NH4) or nitrate (NO3) in fertilizer amendments, and dissolved N will have the highest concentrations in soil with pH 6-8. Concentrations of available N are less sensitive to pH than concentration of available P. In order for P to be available for plants, soil pH needs to be in the range 6.0 and 7.5. If pH is lower than 6, P starts forming insoluble compounds with iron (Fe) and aluminium (Al) and if pH is higher than 7.5 P starts forming insoluble compounds with calcium (Ca).

en.wikipedia.org...

I wonder if acidic soil will cause a higher reading of aluminum than a more alkaline? I can't find that info anywhere. I wonder if that's what people are seeing?

reply to post by chrismicha77

You missed the point. Aluminum is only harmful to plants in acid soils. How does that reconcile with aluminum resistant plants being developed if, as the movie claims, the "spraying" is causing pH levels to rise? If that was the case, there would be no need for aluminum resistant plants.

There are no high levels of aluminum being found in soils. There are normal levels of aluminum being found. Please read the thread I linked.

Originally posted by chrismicha77

Originally posted by adeclerk

Originally posted by upgrayeddc310t
reply to post by adeclerk

 

Hmm. I was in the hospital 3 months ago with abdominal pain from what was determined to be a virus. I was in care for 4 days. Before they determined what it was, I went through a series of tests (first x-ray, blood tests, urine tests; followed by colonoscopy and x-ray where I had to drink some sort of barium liquid). Off topic, but the most vile tasting thing I have ever consumed was the liquid they gave me to eliminate my bowels prior to the colonoscopy. And the most painful thing in my life, aside from the pain of the issue I was having, was from the colonoscopy having to go all the way up into the area by the opening of my stomach which enters into the intestines (sorry not a doctor so I am explaining it best I can, also sorry if this grosses people out). None of these tests yielded any results, so I was given a barium drink (also disgusting tasting and I will not comment on the effects this had on bodily functions) to give contrast to my 2nd x-ray.

Long story short, had horrible debilitating pain, given barium drink for x-ray as other tests failed...should I be worried about any side effects?

Sorry this is of topic but it is at least in reply to a post ITT.

edit on 24-6-2011 by upgrayeddc310t because: typo

It's a contrast fluid, they can see inside otherwise invisible organs (xrays don't show soft tissue so well) with it because it reflects the radiation (doesnt absorb it).

That's not the only inaccuracy in that chemmies posts, I assure you.

You should study some more before calling me out!!

Barium sulfate is frequently used clinically as a radiocontrast agent for X-ray imaging and other diagnostic procedures. It is most often used in imaging of the GI tract during what is colloquially known as a 'barium meal'. It is administered, orally or by enema, as a suspension of fine particles in an aqueous solution (often with sweetening agents added). Although barium is a heavy metal, and its water-soluble compounds are often highly toxic, the low solubility of barium sulfate protects the patient from absorbing harmful amounts of the metal. Barium sulfate is also readily removed from the body, unlike Thorotrast, which it replaced. Due to the relatively high atomic number (Z = 56) of barium, its compounds absorb X-rays more strongly than compounds derived from lighter nuclei.

en.wikipedia.org...

Duh, because barium doesn't allow the xrays to pass the areas where it is absorbed are opaque . My bad.

Originally posted by chrismicha77

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by chrismicha77

 

I showed you the section in the report which says how they developed the cost analysis. As explained in the report, the estimates for the amounts of material required are based on computer models.

There are no samples which show high levels of aluminum in soil or drinking water.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

The fact is, what you "know" is based on fear, ignorance, and gullibility.

edit on 6/24/2011 by Phage because: (no reason given)

Right and I guess having to geoengineer crops for aluminum resistance, is just for the heck of it.

Good to know, but I could say the about you.

This was being discussed 90 years ago too, how to deal with aluminum toxicity in plants.

Where do you think aluminum comes from?

reply to post by Phage


You know its great that we have you here phage its nice to know we have someone with the highest level of security clearance that you can tell us that no government has a ongoing geoengineering program involving spraying from aircrafts.
It must be great to have that kind of trust put into you that you know what's happening in every country around the world.
After all only if you have this kind of clearance could you state that this kind of program has not been implemented

Originally posted by djcarlosa
reply to post by Phage

 

You know its great that we have you here phage its nice to know we have someone with the highest level of security clearance that you can tell us that no government has a ongoing geoengineering program involving spraying from aircrafts.
It must be great to have that kind of trust put into you that you know what's happening in every country around the world.
After all only if you have this kind of clearance could you state that this kind of program has not been implemented

But its you that cant tell us of a single program that is relevant to your conspiracy, you have no evidence.

Normally, a lack of evidence is a problem, but not in chemtrail land. Thats actually more proof, because it means that the evidence is all actually just secret. Anyone can make up a conspiracy for that matter, and claim the lack of proof is just because its all secret and needs security clearances.

Aviation is not a great place to hide things, since it requires airports, airplanes and airspace.

reply to post by pshea38


they do disapear sometimes but they will be back
in force to spray you into the stone age

Originally posted by djcarlosa
reply to post by Phage

 

You know its great that we have you here phage its nice to know we have someone with the highest level of security clearance that you can tell us that no government has a ongoing geoengineering program involving spraying from aircrafts.
It must be great to have that kind of trust put into you that you know what's happening in every country around the world.
After all only if you have this kind of clearance could you state that this kind of program has not been implemented

Spot on d.j.
I have seen these MAJOR anomalies with my own eyes and i am supposed to
provide proof that known despicable establishments (see 9/11, JFK etc.) are out
to do me, as an isolated, faceless CONSUMER, harm.
I will presume every time that criminals are not out for my good.
I know a little of the aids and polio viruses, cancer causing agents, power overstructures/
historical realities.
Nature strives, and leopards
surely don' t change their spots.
Anyone who trusts otherwise is a fool,
in my humble opinion.

Originally posted by pshea38
I have seen these MAJOR anomalies with my own eyes and i am supposed to
provide proof that known despicable establishments (see 9/11, JFK etc.) are out
to do me, as an isolated, faceless CONSUMER, harm.

Those anomalies are probably easily explained with some science or meteorology. Let me know what you've seen specifically and I'll try to guide you toward understanding.

Originally posted by pshea38
I know a little of the aids and polio viruses, cancer causing agents, power overstructures/
historical realities.

AIDS isn't a virus, it's caused by HIV, which is a virus. Are you insinuating that these things were engineered to harm us?

Originally posted by pshea38
Nature strives, and leopards
surely don' t change their spots.
Anyone who trusts otherwise is a fool,
in my humble opinion.

Agreed. Liars and hoaxers are going to lie and hoax, be it about 'chemtrails', 'orgone', 'mind control', etc. Fear and ignorance are major money makers.

Originally posted by adeclerk

Originally posted by pshea38
I have seen these MAJOR anomalies with my own eyes and i am supposed to
provide proof that known despicable establishments (see 9/11, JFK etc.) are out
to do me, as an isolated, faceless CONSUMER, harm.

Those anomalies are probably easily explained with some science or meteorology. Let me know what you've seen specifically and I'll try to guide you toward understanding.

Originally posted by pshea38
I know a little of the aids and polio viruses, cancer causing agents, power overstructures/
historical realities.

AIDS isn't a virus, it's caused by HIV, which is a virus. Are you insinuating that these things were engineered to harm us?

Originally posted by pshea38
Nature strives, and leopards
surely don' t change their spots.
Anyone who trusts otherwise is a fool,
in my humble opinion.

Agreed. Liars and hoaxers are going to lie and hoax, be it about 'chemtrails', 'orgone', 'mind control', etc. Fear and ignorance are major money makers.

Man oh man. Where are you at, or where have you come from?

Google Bryce Taylor and 'Thanks For The Memories'. It is a free PDF.
I recommend reading her high profile MK_ULTRA experiences.
If she were a liar, Where are all the millionaires legal opposition?

'Old Bob Hope, He Ain't What He Used To Be.'

Get back to me afterwords.

Originally posted by pshea38
Man oh man. Where are you at, or where have you come from?

Google Bryce Taylor and 'Thanks For The Memories'. It is a free PDF.
I recommend reading her high profile MK_ULTRA experiences.
If she were a liar, Where are all the millionaires legal opposition?

'Old Bob Hope, He Ain't What He Used To Be.'

Get back to me afterwords.

I'm not disputing that mind control attempts were made, but none of them ever worked. You'll see claims that microwaves are used for mind control, have a read at educate-yourself.org (the people there are serious, unfortunately).

Originally posted by chrismicha77
[Right and I guess having to geoengineer crops for aluminum resistance, is just for the heck of it.

It's for profit - there is an enourmous market out there for aluminium resistant plants, because:

Acid soils limit crop production on 30-40% of the world’s arable land and up to 70% of the world’s potentially
arable land (Haug, 1983). Although the poor fertility of acid soils is due to a combination of mineral toxicities (aluminum and manganese) and deficiencies (phosphorus, calcium, magnesium, and molybdenum), Al toxicity is the single most important factor, being a major constraint for crop production on 67% of the total acid soil
area (Eswaran et al., 1997).

- www.plantstress.com...

Here's the summary of a 1997 paper about creating aluminium resistance - www.sciencemag.org...

And a 2010 European report about breeding aluminium resistence into lucerne - www.eau.ee...

It's not just Monsanto keen on this - whoever can create an aluminium resistent staple crop will make a fortune!