Do people on ATS have no understanding of the world? TPTB Don't exist!

Well, of course not. (Meaning that question is false, or preposterous at best *The statement portion stands true).

It is an asinine question because it is a generalization. So much so, that it falls into the category of rhetoric rather than an actual question. Which brings me to my rant:

My Rant

Threads like these. Implying that there is some mass structured cabal of overlords making all decisions related to public policy. The idea that everything is controlled by "TPTB" is such a preposterous position that only the most naive or gullible could believe it to be true.

In this scenario you are discounting free will of the masses. Complete and utter contempt against the very thing that "TPTB" are supposedly taking away from people with every move. In fact, it's as thought every major organization or government position has been compromised by these magnificent powers that be. So much that the only way someone could make any decision in this world that affects the common man, they must be a part of them.

Of course, you have common errors that show you really how stupid people are (And that of course, they are humans and not alien masterminds):

City drains pond because someone pees in it.

There will always be people that are for something and against something. You may be for abortion or your may be against abortion. Probably not even an issue that should be discussed in politics. But if you use this in a "PTB" argument, you are doing yourself and the world a disservice. *Insert abortion with any topic.

Each issue is individualized. Meaning there could be multiple players on many sides. It could be an individual having an effect on our world or it could be a multitude of people, a conglomerate. But unless you know exactly who the shot callers are on something that makes a change in the world. You don't know squat Jack.

So don't bother assuming it is "TPTB" all the time, (if you happen to be one of those people) Because they don't exist. If you generalize something it loses all meaning.



Waking up, Enlightenment, Truth, Seeing the Writing on the Wall, Etc.

No one can really say they are learning something for the better if they give into Alternative Media fear. The first one that came to mind was PressCore, there are others of course. Sorcha Faal comes to mind, the YouTube posters proclaiming the end of the world, Alex Jones, so on and so forth.

If you are being controlled through fear, by the government and private industry (Which of course happens with lack of understanding), switching over to be controlled by fear from another individual is not waking you up. It is further clouding your head.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Ever see a bad break up between a couple. And when the guy/girl leaves the person they talk horribly about that person. Venting, releasing anger... They are genuinely mad. Although very irrational. If they decide to get back together they have to eat crow, and if they stay apart they do so on bad terms.

If a friend instigates and talks about how bad the other person in the relationship is, it only compounds the mess.


Thinking things through -Critical Thought

If someone were mad that they were lied to. One would think this would motivate them to seek truth with greater gusto.
One would think, this would drive someone to analyse, and be critical about everything around them. Yet, there are a many number of people that seem to get upset about one group lying to them, so they move to another group that will lie to them (but equally doesn't like the first group).

Meaning it has everything to do with politics, and nothing to do with truth.

Hopefully that was comprehensible.

Rant Complete.

Well, its either people are too stupid, or its to easy the blame all the worlds problems on one group. Pretty common when people dont actually understand how the world works, and why certain decisions are made by certain people. Its all about personal gain, but that doesnt mean that its some huge secret organisation of "elites" making those decisions.

Meh, just let the nuts be nuts....its not our problem if they want to waste their time and life worrying about such things

Would you show me examples of all these people on ATS saying ALL government employees, ALL corporations, and ALL world leaders are part of 'tptb'? Can you show me even one?

reply to post by OzWeatherman

Meh, just let the nuts be nuts....its not our problem if they want to waste their time and life worrying about such things

Good answer. Although I would like to add, that there are negative consequences to the type of thought I referred to in the OP. When people make good decisions for themselves and have critical, rational thoughts, it tends to affect others in a positive way. As well as there are negative consequences for the opposite.

"TPTB" argument reminds me of someone referring to all Asians as Chinese. All Middle Easterns as "Paki's". It is a lack of understanding, fueled by emotional thought rather than logical, rational thought. And there are many possible implications which may arise.

Thank you for your post.

Originally posted by OzWeatherman
Well, its either people are too stupid, or its to easy the blame all the worlds problems on one group. Pretty common when people dont actually understand how the world works, and why certain decisions are made by certain people. Its all about personal gain, but that doesnt mean that its some huge secret organisation of "elites" making those decisions.

Meh, just let the nuts be nuts....its not our problem if they want to waste their time and life worrying about such things

You have a point there.

I have to say that I believe people are blaming the PTB more and more because of so many unexplained and insidious happenings going on...more and more...every day.

It seems that whenever an answer is not readily available...it's TPB. I have been guilty of that myself I must admit. Usually when I've had too many shots and started ranting. Who hasn't?

But on the other side of the coin, there are those that absolutely don't believe that there is any PTB whatsoever...and these are the suspicious ones to watch out for! LOL

They do exist! They're out there! They're watching!

Good Thread as always Boncho. SnF

Originally posted by BlackStar99
Would you show me examples of all these people on ATS saying ALL government employees, ALL corporations, and ALL world leaders are part of 'tptb'? Can you show me even one?

edit on 22-6-2011 by BlackStar99 because: (no reason given)

You may have missed the first line of the Rant:

Well, of course not. (Meaning that question is false, or preposterous at best *First Part of it).

The body of the rant was speaking specifically to those people. Or anyone who recognizes people that are like that (One person removed).

reply to post by jude11


The question I would like to raise in this thread is: Should people refer to controlling powers, groups or organizations as "TPTB". The label seems to encompass just about anyone that has any sort of effect on the world. In this forum particularly I think people are doing a disservice to themselves using that acronym.

If the idea is to get to the truth of the matter, specifics are specifically important. To me, it seems like a cop out. "I don't know exactly who it is, so I'll call them this."

In essence, it is the very definition of ignorance.

ignorance (ˈɪɡnərəns)

— n
lack of knowledge, information, or education; the state of being ignorant

1

Originally posted by boncho
reply to post by jude11

 

The question I would like to raise in this thread is: Should people refer to controlling powers, groups or organizations as "TPTB". The label seems to encompass just about anyone that has any sort of effect on the world. In this forum particularly I think people are doing a disservice to themselves using that acronym.

If the idea is to get to the truth of the matter, specifics are specifically important. To me, it seems like a cop out. "I don't know exactly who it is, so I'll call them this."

In essence, it is the very definition of ignorance.

ignorance (ˈɪɡnərəns)

— n
lack of knowledge, information, or education; the state of being ignorant

1

Good question and I believe the answer is this:

If they don't tell us who is making the decisions and what those decisions are...they are TPTB.

If they are untouchable and unaccountable...they are TPTB.

If their decisions have consequences that can cause harm and destruction across the World and we don't know who is making these decisions...they are TPTB.

If they are never charged, convicted and imprisoned for crimes against humanity and the environment...They are TPTB.

In a nutshell, if 1% can do whatever the hell they want and 99% can do nothing to stop them...the 1% are TPTB.

That's the best way I can explain it for myself.

Originally posted by boncho
You may have missed the first line of the Rant:

Well, of course not. (Meaning that question is false, or preposterous at best *First Part of it).

The body of the rant was speaking specifically to those people. Or anyone who recognizes people that are like that (One person removed).

I didn't miss it, I just misread it. So you're just debating the term "the power that be"? I'm confused.

reply to post by jude11


Fair enough. I like your interpretation. I will forever be against the notion of "TPTB" though, (Something more defined, definitely not) Unless like you, I am incredibly hammered.

reply to post by BlackStar99

I didn't miss it, I just misread it. So you're just debating the term "the power that be"? I'm confused.

I'm expressing my distaste for the overuse of the word. As well as the lack of understanding that goes into using it. I think the word should be dropped completely, where people have to give exact names. To me, conversations that go heavy into "TPTB" talk, drift off into places worse than rumor and innuendo.

Meaning, there should be some idea to who you are speculating about, otherwise, you have no idea at all.

I think you are oversimplifying the terminology.

TPTB - The Powers That Be

This is not some single group of people, some isolated cabal, or some sinister organization that is being blamed for all the worlds ills. This is a term used to describe that which cannot presently be described. It is a catchall and buzzword used to say "I am not sure which big organization is at the heart of it, but it is a big organization nonetheless."

TPTB is an acronym used much like The ABC Agent/Group, or the Alphabet Squad. An ABC/Alphabet group is something like FBI, CIA, MI6, KGB, etc. When someone says "watch out that you arent visited by the ABC or Alphabet squad, you know that they are talking about an enforcement group best known by its initials.

The same holds here. TPTB could be members of World Banking, Big Pharma, National Gov't, Military Complexes, Global Corporations, or any combination of these and more. They are the groups that hold some power over policy and decision making and lifestyle and freedoms. They are the "Shadow Government" or the governement behind the government. They have the influence and money to sway votes to make change where they want to see change made. They are also the state level officials or local/state/federal police organizations that often intrude on privacy or step on human rights and dignities.

I grant that TPTB is often used a bit loosely, especially in a conspiracy setting. Its because some people see something that they think is there or on the horizon. They cant quite see the end, but feel something is looming. With no way to know the ending, there is also no way to know the cause or who to blame. So, it must be one of the sinister organizations hellbent on the subjugation of mankind, or one of the powers that be.

Of course It's all speculation, but with how secretive some governments and some multinational corporations are that's all we're left with, and I think it's fine. No matter who's wrong or right, speculation and critical thinking are imperative. No one should ever stop questioning ANYTHING.

We're never going to be able to list out every globalists as long as they maintain control, but the list starts with anyone who has over $500,000,000.

reply to post by boncho


I agree with a lot of what you say. But I have to disagree with some of it.

I believe you are right in saying TPTB can not have complete control over every aspect of humanity. It is indeed preposterous and frankly quite stupid to assume such. Free will definitely exists, and I exercise that right every day.

But when you say that TPTB just downright do not exist, I must disagree. There are definitely certain groups pretty high up that definitely play a part in what the masses see/hear in the media and what not. Conspiracies are very real, and I would call most groups behind them TPTB.

On another note, I would like to say that maybe there are multiple sides to TPTB. Why can not we be certain "PTB"? We are the critical thinkers who don't just dive into the propaganda and feed off of the BS, but search for the truth, and then do our best to spread and share it. I would like to believe that we are also the powers that be, if you will... the powers of critical thinking, knowledge, and truth-seeking.

There are influences everywhere. It's up to the individual to decide from which ones to take from.

double post.. sorry

oh, okay, that clears everything up.

reply to post by boncho


You say: "My Rant

Threads like these. Implying that there is some mass structured cabal of overlords making all decisions related to public policy. The idea that everything is controlled by "TPTB" is such a preposterous position that only the most naive or gullible could believe it to be true."

You believe that Agenda 21 was brought up by the people of the world? You believe that the Western countries that are losing their shirts in this globalization/NWO are not being forced to go that route by some secret agenda?

I'm sorry, it is gullible to think that every thing is fine and dandy and don't worry your little heads out there that the Bilderbergs, and other forces of great wealth are running the show. And sure, they flub up once in awhile, but really, they know what they are doing. Is that what you really believe?

Well, I can't believe you would write something like that and be sincere, so I'll believe that you are not sincere and simply wanted to create a rant.

reply to post by Aliensun


Your post is just a bunch of names and a bunch of terms with no cohesion. Not only that, but filled with rhetoric. This is exactly what I'm talking about.

No one could read your post and have come out any smarter by it. (Angrier perhaps.)

reply to post by deanGI5

But when you say that TPTB just downright do not exist, I must disagree. There are definitely certain groups pretty high up that definitely play a part in what the masses see/hear in the media and what not. Conspiracies are very real, and I would call most groups behind them TPTB.

Why not call them by their real names, or is that because you don't have enough information? Which means you are subjecting yourself to believing in rumor, leaving yourself open to manipulation.

No offense implied.

Then why are you on ATS if everything is just 'hunky dory'? No wait, you're here to debunk everything and every view of every member on this site.

What is sad is that you believe all is well and there's nothing to us tin-foil hat wearers. Not all of us are crazy and some of us are able to connect the dots.

I would hate to live my whole life with my eyes wide shut!