Chemtrails/Morgellans - "What Have They Done To Us?"

Originally posted by Lono1
reply to post by firepilot

 

My agendas are not about junk science, fear mongering, or taking part on conspiracies or spreading hoaxes.

Yet you take the time to register for membership to a "conspiracy" site, then don your "Super-debunker" super-suit, to keep us all safe from speculation and could-be's.

Well done, great job. Applause for your efforts, because without you, there would be no justice.

sure, just because it is a conspiracy site, does not mean logic, facts and reality have to be thrown out. Besides, if people have actual knowledge or experience in certain area they can share, would you rather they be quite, so that people can have a more comfortable existence in their delusions?

Originally posted by Lono1
reply to post by firepilot

 

Im not trying to Prove anything. I just want people to think. Only a fool believes 100% in anything. Critical thought does not deal in absolutes

OK - so thinking about "chemtrails" there is a lot of info out there -

For example contrails exist - they seem to cover all the characteristics of various photos & videos claiming to show "chemtrails".

There are known mistaken or false claims about "chemtrails" - eg contrails can only last a few minutes therefore anything that lasts longer must be a "chemtrail" - the number of minutes varies betwen chemtrail believers - IIRC I've seen figures of 30 seconds to 30 minutes as the cutoff.

No-one has managed to show any verifiable physical evidence of "chemtrails" - no equipment, no materials, no trucks or pipes transporting something to the a/c, no credible whistle blowers, no bills/invoices/statements, no a/c weight-and-balance sheets, no Govt agency co-ordinating it, no "chem pilots", etc.

the technical requirements for "spraying" something into the atmosphere are trivial - the equipment has existed for decades - suggestions that various mechanisms that have been patented as proof of "chemtrails" have not been backed up by any evidence of them actually being used

Samples purporting to show high levels of various substances at ground level have been shown to be not high at all, and/or to have no known connection to any aerial activity

the physics of the atmosphere are not 100% known, but the sorts of conditions that results in contrails are reasonably well known

the history of contrails is reasonably well known

the mechanism for creation of contrails is rasonably well known (combustion of hydrocarbons producing surprisingly large amounts of water)

Various governments HAVE "sprayed" materials on populations (both military and civilian) from the 1950's through to the 1970's (AFAIK) - the materials used were thought to be harmless at the time, but are known to be have some health effects now.

Some proposals for geo-engineering include the "spraying" of chemicals into the stratosphere to reflect heat - the possible materials include sulphur oxides and aluminium/barium micro-platelettes - AFAIK none of these proposals has gone further than discussion and possibly small scale/laboratory testing

Governments (State, National) and the UN have all expressed concern that any geo-engineering should be regulated and not allowed to go ahead without full discussion, assessment and control - the UN has placed a moratorium on any geo-engineering that might affect biodiversity

From this I have concluded that it is possible to spray "chemtrails" right now - the means is there.

I also conclude that people have a right to be suspicious of governments - they have conducted experiments on mass populations in the past, and I wouldn't want to be part of any such in the future without agreeing to it.

And lastly I conclude that there is no actual evidence of anything of the sort actually happening right now, nor in hte last 13-15 years since the "chemtrail" meme appeared (which doesn't mean it won't ever happen, hence I agree people should remain alert/suspicious about it).

How's that for thinking?

Im not trying to Prove anything. I just want people to think. Only a fool believes 100% in anything. Critical thought does not deal in absolutes

Funny, you should tell the chemtrailers that who insist that contrails absolutely can not persist. Its us eeeevil debunkers that say that contrails can, depending on a variety of factors.

Originally posted by adeclerk

Originally posted by wcitizen

Now, who am I going to give credence to? A highly qualified and reliable scientist with an excellent reputation who has made her findings available or an obsessive extremist denier upstart on ATS who has no qualifications and whose parrot like reponses typically are extrenely lacking in intelligence,?

Show me some qualifications of this "scientist" and we can discuss this.
I'm not big on those obvious appeals to authority.

He's talking about Dr Hildegard(e) Staninger - however calling her a "highly qualified and reliable scientist" seems to run into some credibility problems when you research her qualifications and history as this site purports to have done:

Trying to shed light on the shadowy background of Dr. Hildegarde Staninger - note that this is from a "Morgellans parasite disease support forum" - not a debunking site!!

there are plenty of messages on the forum saying how wonderful she is, along with many critical of her.

Edit:

also found this about her under her married name Sacarello:

"Sacarello graduated from Kensington University in Glendale, Calif. in 1983, earning a doctorate in industrial toxicology. Kensington students study by mail on an independent tutorial basis. . . . But the California Council for Private Postsecondary and Vocational Education, a state agency that monitors and regulates private universities and colleges, said the school has never been authorized to grant such a degree."
news.google.com...

(the newspaper article referred to is still available, go to page 7 to find page 14A in which the front page article continues)

it goes on to say that Kensington was a degree mill:

Kensington University was closed down by officials at the state level in California and Hawaii. In a lawsuit brought against Kensington by the Hawaii Department of Consumer Protection, there was this statement:

"4. Defendant KU is not now or never has been accredited by a
recognized accrediting agency or association recognized by the United States Secretary of Education.

5. Subsequent to July 1, 1999, Defendant KU, acting in concert with others, has engaged in the operation of the unaccredited degree granting institution Kensington University. To that end, the defendant has offered to sell and sold post secondary degrees."

You can read the state complaint and the default judgement against Kensington at this address: hawaii.gov...

From www.bibliotecapleyades.net... - not quite sure what the site is - it seems to have a lot of "new age" stuff on it - I wouldn't call it debunking at all.....

reply to post by afw2121


Very good point. I see some things that look like flying tylenols and some look like shiny orbs Some objects seem to have strange wings.

I would guess either Black Ops or Above. They do not look anything from the past flying overhead. Regular Planes, jets, and Helicopters fly over also and they are different in appearance. I guess we will all know coming soon.

Originally posted by Buford2
I would guess either Black Ops or Above. They do not look anything from the past flying overhead. Regular Planes, jets, and Helicopters fly over also and they are different in appearance. I guess we will all know coming soon.

If they are just normal planes, birds and balloons, then how would we know?

I have made no claims. You are very quick to label me, that is funny. It seems you have an agenda indeed, because you have really answered nothing at all. All very general. Testing, extensive, widespread, blah blah blah.
Thanks for nothing.

I am not labeling anyone. I get frustrated when someone acts as if they are on the fence, asking for info.. and when you provide it, they take the defensive.. as you are doing now. It's obvious you really had no desire for facts - you just wanted to see if I had info you could poke holes into, to support your claims. I have no agenda other than to point out FACTS. There is nothing general about it. I listed SPECIFIC materials that are tested for. But again, you can find this all out yourself if you did even a modicum of research.

Have you? No? Why not? Is the truth really so unimpressive, you'd rather have fabrication? What specifically would you like to know in more detail - I'll see what I can provide. There is no need to get defensive with me. I am not a super-secret disinfo agent - I have no agenda other than common sense.

I have proof that a lot of testing is done, with no mass spraying results found. If you want to ignore it, go ahead. Just because you are ignorant about environmental testing, doesn't mean it doesn't occur. It happens all the time - most folks who insist on believing in chemtrails (and I am not implicating you), just ignore this data. It doesn't fit with their belief system, so is disregarded. All the facts are there - there is no mass spraying.

I am not saying there is NO spraying - cloud seeding, perhaps some clandestine testing occurs in the boonies.. who knows. I am only speaking out against MASS spraying over major cities. There is no way this is happening, the proof is overwhelming.

reply to post by fleabit

I am not saying there is NO spraying - cloud seeding, perhaps some clandestine testing occurs in the boonies..

The OP was about the "possibility" of Morgellan's Disease in humans being an unintended consequence and result of nano tech being used for highly accurate atmospheric mapping at some time in the past...Its all about the law of unintended consequences.

Do I think there is a link?... yes.

Do I think it was done on purpose? No.

Do I think that pesticides such as Monsanto's "RoundUp" are sprayed on seed crops that Monsanto genetically modifies to resist RoundUp? Absolutely.

The "conspiracy" does not have to be ongoing to still be a subject worthy of review..

Originally posted by Lono1
reply to post by fleabit

 

I am not saying there is NO spraying - cloud seeding, perhaps some clandestine testing occurs in the boonies..

The OP was about the "possibility" of Morgellan's Disease in humans being an unintended consequence and result of nano tech being used for highly accurate atmospheric mapping at some time in the past...Its all about the law of unintended consequences.

Do I think there is a link?... yes.

So what is this "nano tech being used for highly accurate atmospheric mapping at some time in the past"?

It seems there is one link....the link between a "lack of evidence" and "lack of theory".

I think it's a proportional link, whereby the less evidence there is of a theory, the wider the interpretation of that theory is then allowed.

On top of that, the need for fact checking or scientific accuracy is greatly relaxed.

Roundup is an herbicide, not a pesticide.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

So what is this "nano tech being used for highly accurate atmospheric mapping at some time in the past"?

"Cloud seeding with million microscopic computers."
please watch the video.I didn't embed it for my health.

reply to post by EyeDontKnow

Roundup is an herbicide, not a pesticide.

My mistake, Ill edit the error immediately. I get confused sometimes... Monsanto products=Defoliants ... RoundUp, Agent Orange...Check.got it.

reply to post by Lono1


It was not meant as a jab. We all make mistakes.

reply to post by Lono1

I didn't embed it for my health.

Be glad you didn't because the only link to chemtrails or morgellons was what the you tube poster wrote over the video, which is about cloud seeding and nothing more. Plus you wouldn't see them being dust sized particles.

reply to post by tsurfer2000h


Thanks for backing that statement up with a fact. And thanks for your opinion, I appreciate it.