Prestigious doctor: US nuclear 'Baby valley of death,' Millions to die

reply to post by Mdv2

prestigious Doctor Mark Sircus released a new report concurring with a host of scientists and other doctors giving evidence that people of Japan and United States have been subjected to dangerous levels of radiation since Fukushima nuclear plant meltdowns

What meltdowns?

Such gratuitous inaccuracy is a good example of the quality of journalism in this article.

Nothing is going to happen. No earless babies, no dead rabbits. This is just scaremongering by people who think about science the same way they think about magic, and people who can’t tell the difference just soak it up and get all hysterical and indignant on Above Top Secret.

Originally posted by Astyanax
What meltdowns?

Such gratuitous inaccuracy is a good example of the quality of journalism in this article.

Nothing is going to happen. No earless babies, no dead rabbits. This is just scaremongering by people who think about science the same way they think about magic, and people who can’t tell the difference just soak it up and get all hysterical and indignant on Above Top Secret.

The meltdowns that the guys who built and run the place (you remember TEPCO don't ya) admitted to on 25 MAY 2011 to the NRC (Our own Nuclear Regulatory Commission), the IAEA (International Atomic Energy Association) and NISA that was reported on below and on Kyodo News and NHK extensively. Example below:

TEPCO Meltdown Confirmed

TEPCO Admits 3 Meltdowns

Of course those with an interest and the ability to read the written English language knew this on 12 MAY 2011 as can be seen by this press release by TEPCO:

First Admission of Meltdown at Fukushima

Should you have problems with the written English language there are quite a few videos with moving pictures and sound regarding the press conference as well that I could post to enlighten you as to the actual status of the Fukushima Dai-ichi array or would you prefer to think that your belief that nothing melted down trumps reality as observed and reported by the people who built, operate and work at the actual plant when they report to their country and government?

Such gratuitous inaccuracy is a good example of the quality of postings in this thread.

This is just propagating the normalcy bias by people who think about science the same way they think about magic, and people who can’t tell the difference just soak it up and return to their couches as if nothing happened.

reply to post by TheOrangeBrood


ok, instead of hoax, lets say intentionally misleading with an agenda behind it designed to confuse the issue or draw attention

Originally posted by Astyanax
reply to post by Mdv2

 

prestigious Doctor Mark Sircus released a new report concurring with a host of scientists and other doctors giving evidence that people of Japan and United States have been subjected to dangerous levels of radiation since Fukushima nuclear plant meltdowns

What meltdowns?

Such gratuitous inaccuracy is a good example of the quality of journalism in this article.

Nothing is going to happen. No earless babies, no dead rabbits. This is just scaremongering by people who think about science the same way they think about magic, and people who can’t tell the difference just soak it up and get all hysterical and indignant on Above Top Secret.

And perhaps, Dorothy, if you tap your heels together you'll be transported back to YOUR universe where nothing bad ever happens and the Easter bunny and Santa live merrily together, wishes become things and the sun shines brightly everyday.

The only hysteria I see is some people trying to deny reality and propagate a mass hallucination about Fukushima being over and radiation doesn't hurt you. If you disagree with us, perhaps you can show your science to us proving your superior insight, failing to do so will only prove that you're tripping out on your own good feelings dude.

reply to post by SFA437

Fine. I stand corrected on the meltdown.

The claims made by the 'prestigious doctor' are still rubbish, though. Call me Dorothy all you like; I'd rather be that than a hysterically flapping Chicken Little.

Originally posted by Astyanax
reply to post by SFA437

 

Fine. I stand corrected on the meltdown.

The claims made by the 'prestigious doctor' are still rubbish, though. Call me Dorothy all you like; I'd rather be that than a hysterically flapping Chicken Little.

The OP was indeed WAY over the top and poorly researched (if at all).

That does not change the fact that there are HUGE amounts of radioisotopes that have drifted across CONUS in a pattern close to what ZAMG weather pattern analysis had predicted. Infant mortality has been up (according to the CDC) in those cities shown to have been affected by this particulate matter. Granted it's a couple babies per city per week which isn't that bad in the grand scheme of things but if it's YOUR baby it pretty much sucks.

Taking that an extrapolating it to millions of US deaths however is a tad extreme. CAN it happen... sure over an extended period of time but nothing like the author suggested. That possibility would be reserved for the Japanese if the wind was blowing to the southwest. I think at most we'll see an increase in bone & muscle cancers due to bioaccumulation of cesium over the next 50 years or so which again sucks if you're the one getting it but out of 300 million people the percentage is going to be pretty small.

That doesn't mean of course that one should not reduce or eliminate exposure

reply to post by SFA437


Back of the napkin ,...O.K.?... 120,000,000 dead in the next 5 years(absolute minimum), hundreds of millions unborn , still born or deformed in 10 years, shortening of life span for everyone in the northern hemisphere , in a mathematically expressionable relation to Fukushima for 800 years, food stocks and growing lands, just exactly like Chernobyl, highly poisoned for 30 years and leading to the previous life span conditioning for the 800 to 1500 year "opening " for half-lives, and general exposure risks ( the threshold dropping below being dominate after 800 years if conditions are favorable, and longer if not) becoming a "new" factor in everyday life.

It's a 'prediction' if you like , those of you 'normall(y) bias'ed , prove me wrong if you can, or argue for why you think I am wrong .
This is my opinion, and a very conservative one at that, and assessment.. it does not include the sea pollution problem , or the bacteria/virus to radiation problem in the near time frame , but as there is still sand on the beach the tide has work to do

Originally posted by Silverlok
Back of the napkin ,...O.K.?... 120,000,000 dead in the next 5 years(absolute minimum), hundreds of millions unborn , still born or deformed in 10 years, shortening of life span for everyone in the northern hemisphere , in a mathematically expressionable relation to Fukushima for 800 years, food stocks and growing lands, just exactly like Chernobyl, highly poisoned for 30 years and leading to the previous life span conditioning for the 800 to 1500 year "opening " for half-lives, and general exposure risks ( the threshold dropping below being dominate after 800 years if conditions are favorable, and longer if not) becoming a "new" factor in everyday life

Just like Chernobyl, huh? My area of the North America was hit pretty hard by that.

Originally posted by Silverlok
It's a 'prediction' if you like , those of you 'normall(y) bias'ed , prove me wrong if you can, or argue for why you think I am wrong .

That's not how the burden of proof works. If you are going to make a wild 'prediction' (although I think this isn't the right term, predictions are usually based on things like fact and evidence, yours is based on what data exactly?) you need to have the evidence to support it.

Originally posted by Silverlok
This is my opinion, and a very conservative one at that,

I'm glad you admit it's an opinion. What data has lead you to the conclusion that it's a conservative prediction? Could you provide a link?

Originally posted by Silverlok
it does not include the sea pollution problem , or the bacteria/virus to radiation problem in the near time frame , but as there is still sand on the beach the tide has work to do

Mhmm.

reply to post by adeclerk


Yawn at Adeclerk... denying anything that is not declared by mass media/government is beyond boring, and ALWAYS equates to LIES.

Why don't you go to the area and give us some live reports ?? I am sure your augmented immune system will find the pollution to be a stimulant !!

We need reports !

reply to post by GrinchNoMore


So you believe the predictions of an acupuncturist on this topic?

second

VULGARITY WARNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


WOW!
Since my seed is now useless, can I place it on the elites face?

That is, since a media black out and the sterilization of human kind for a while is obviously what they are after here.

Just like Chernobyl, huh? My area of the North America was hit pretty hard by that

Yes. A mis-identification of association , or misunderstanding of a metaphor is somewhat understandable in the internet context, but not exactly intelligent behavior, in the general case. Chernobyl irradiated Europe over a wide swath to the extent that sheep in Ireland just this year (the year of our lord ( whomever that may be ) 2011) were able to be then off the 'check for radiation do not eat list' , and pigs in germany are still on the 'do not eat list ' due to radioactive contamination

That's not how the burden of proof works...... yours is based on what data exactly?) you need to have the evidence to support it.

Burden of proof is it ? Convenient when pointed at someone else, and for the record and a lesson in the ENGLISH LANGUAGE: no I don't have to prove a thing about MY OPINION ...
it is the definition of opinion....

o·pin·ion    [uh-pin-yuhn] Show IPA –noun
1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.
3. the formal expression of a professional judgment

...Mine being formed by decades of experience at being alive and doing analysis of people,mechanical systems politics and more important psychology , but it is no more real at this time than doctor who or snoopy . Time my change that

I'm glad you admit it's an opinion. What data has lead you to the conclusion that it's a conservative prediction? Could you provide a link?

ADMIT? I state it openly unless 'back of the napkin' and 'opinion' are unclear terms ...in person the next words out of my mouth would be dumb ass, but ats frowns on louts like myself exposing our baser nature, so i will say please re-read the definition of opinion, and consider how you are applying the concept to what you have read .

Originally posted by Silverlok
it does not include the sea pollution problem , or the bacteria/virus to radiation problem in the near time frame , but as there is still sand on the beach the tide has work to do

(addlebrained)
Mhmm.

IS THAT TASTY TO YOU? hmm? or is it you have nothing to say and your onamonapiea is suppose to convey something that normally language would be used for ? As an implicitive tools it lacks a certain "wholeness" that one might expect to find in a thinking, aware, person.

And ..are you really the type of person that would read the answer to your' burden of proof' question? when it is crafted ( as you have asked ) . i suggest iou watch the Chernobyl video link, perhaps "parade of death" and "missing from the archives" mean something else in the dictionary you use for OPINION, but this is the truth and fact of a situation much less problematic than fukushima Daiichi, which has been spewing radiation into the air and sea for over three months with no end in site ( normal time to non-aerosol production of fission by products is 1 year for thermal capacity , so in essence Chernobyl less than two months one reactor, fukushima a year three reactors....that's tough to figure right)
(edit) by the way piscator has great advice hunting leaves the kill without a choice but fishing...ah fishing..means that EVERY TIME ONE IS SUCCESSFUL THE FISH TOOK THE BAIT OF THEIR OWN CHOOSING)

I remember reading this article about Cherenobyl soon after Fukushima incident started and thought I'd post it here

www.aolnews.com...

Chernobyl Cleanup Survivor's Message for Japan: 'Run Away as Quickly as Possible' Mar 22, 2011 – 1:23 PM

What message do you have for Japan? Run away as quickly as possible. Don't wait. Save yourself and don't rely on the government because the government lies. They don't want you to know the truth because the nuclear industry is so powerful.

How did working in the dead zone begin to affect your health? I started to feel as if I had the flu. I would get a high temperature and start to shiver. What happens during first contact with radiation is that your good flora is depleted and the bad flora starts to flourish. I suddenly wanted to sleep all the time and eat a lot. It was the organism getting all the energy out.
How much radiation were you subjected to? We were never told. We wore dosimeters which measured radiation and we submitted them to the bosses, but they never gave us the results.
But didn't you realize the danger and want to leave? Yes, I knew the danger. All sorts of things happened. One colleague stepped into a rainwater pool and the soles of his feet burned off inside his boots. But I felt it was my duty to stay. I was like a firefighter. Imagine if your house was burning and the firemen came and then left because they thought it was too dangerous.
When did you discover the thyroid tumor? They found it during a routine medical inspection after I had worked there several years. It turned out to be benign. I don't know when it started to develop. I had an operation to remove half the thyroid gland. The tumor grew back, and last year I had the other half removed. I live on (thyroid) hormones now.

Did your health worsen after you finally finished work at Chernobyl? I was basically disabled at 43. I was having fits similar to epileptic fits. My blood pressure was sky high. It was hard to work for more than six months a year. The doctors didn't know what to do with me. They wanted to put me in a psychiatric ward and call me crazy. Finally they admitted it was because of the radiation.

Sad, ssoooo sod. She worked to try to clean up the mess, stuck it out when others died, and they tried to deny her help when she needed it. And tried to deny it was the radiation. 43 years old and disabled now. And will probably die soon.

Originally posted by Silverlok
Yes. A mis-identification of association , or misunderstanding of a metaphor is somewhat understandable in the internet context, but not exactly intelligent behavior, in the general case. Chernobyl irradiated Europe over a wide swath to the extent that sheep in Ireland just this year (the year of our lord ( whomever that may be ) 2011) were able to be then off the 'check for radiation do not eat list' , and pigs in germany are still on the 'do not eat list ' due to radioactive contamination

You mean wild boars, not regular pigs. www.chinapost.com.tw...

...in Germany, caesium-137 levels in wild boar muscle reached 40,000 Bq/kg. The average level is 6,800 Bq/kg, more than ten times the EU limit of 600 Bq/kg", according to the TORCH 2006 report

Additionally:

As of 2009, sheep farmed in some areas of the UK are still subject to inspection which may lead to them being prohibited from entering the human food chain because of contamination arising from the accident.

en.wikipedia.org...

In 5 years when your prediction isn't even close to being true, you can shake my hand. Otherwise, provided I don't die horrible (not counting on it) I'll be old enough to buy you a beer.

Originally posted by adeclerk

You mean wild boars, not regular pigs. www.chinapost.com.tw...

?how is this not an indication of massive accumulation of radiation far from the event:

...in Germany, caesium-137 levels in wild boar muscle reached 40,000 Bq/kg. The average level is 6,800 Bq/kg, more than ten times the EU limit of 600 Bq/kg", according to the TORCH 2006 report

?
wild boars eat from the wild...I.E. natural environment , The best place to random sample , as farms are ...farmed ...or heavily machine and worked with both fertilizer and other soil and environment alterations that are part and parcel with massive re-working of the environment ( farming as a definition , but since the definition of "opinion" did not seem to stick to your ribs, I'll leave the google to you ).

here is an interesting question, where do you think your oxygen and water come from ? do you think these things come from farms? controlled environments, or ....the same place wild boars (pigs) get them, which is the 'natural' environment, which happens to be contaminated to this day?

Additionally:

As of 2009, sheep farmed in some areas of the UK are still subject to inspection which may lead to them being prohibited from entering the human food chain because of contamination arising from the accident.

en.wikipedia.org...

I am not sure what point you are trying to express here. If you think this thread ( or any on ATS) is about "winning" some mythological pissing contest ...um no...this bit doesn't even make sense. It is poorly researched , has already been covered in this thread in depth and doesn't really address the issues which are : radiation levels high enough ( even in 2009, though the ban WAS lifted in 2011 ) that secondary effects from bio-accumulation are still being seen 25 plus years after the disaster thousands of miles away from it . There is no way in Hell that that has no effect on people in those same regions ...perhaps you trust your institutions to inform you but watch the Chernobyl video and read this whole thread ...the kind of people running nuclear power will doo almost ANYTHING to keep the truth out of the average mindset.

In 5 years when your prediction isn't even close to being true, you can shake my hand. Otherwise, provided I don't die horrible (not counting on it) I'll be old enough to buy you a beer.

edit on 6/25/11 by adeclerk because: (no reason given)

Youth rocks...but this is going to be your planet and when the people old enough to have been buying beer for a few decades pass , the song will remain the same as FUKUSHIMA is very different than Cheronbyl in VOLUMNE . It has released far more toxins into the environment , land sea and air...and spread them over a wider range: infant mortality rates are already upon the west coast of the united states where some fall-out has been as heavy as the zone within 30 clicks of Fukushima. I am not trying to be an alarmist but the world I and everyone my age grew up in is not going to be the world you "grow" into . It is a fact

Currently the world population is:

6,927,181,191( by the time you read this it will be higher )
and the U.S. population is : 311,630,976 (official , but if you have any experience you know it is higher even than that ) 120,000,000 of the world population ( at today's numbers, which obviously would be well over 7 billion in 5 years ) is .017 of the total people living or 1.7%. most people live in the northern hemisphere, and except for the interior of asia ( due to wind patterns ), that most political lines consider to be 'russia' and nominally 'china'
that means that the NEW radioactive pollutants in our atmosphere have only to contribute to a .3% (that's point three , or 3 tenths of one percent ) per year for five years for my estimate to be correct..

Now the irradiation exposure and then , decades of , bio-accumulation numbers for our next biggest disaster , Chernobyl are around a 4-6% increase in cancer and other radiological induced illnesses . 4 to 6 percent (minimum as the numbers have been challenged with significant data to show it is MUCH higher, but we will stick with the 'official set for a while ) , that is a hell of a lot higher than .3 by an order of magnitude at least, so even if fukushima daiichi was one tenth the size of Chernobyl it would still have a statistical probability of effecting the number indicated in well less than the time frame defined ( as I said conservative) .

But it is not Cheronbyl...it is much larger (many many hundreds of tons) and had been uncovered for much longer..in the words of spinal tap .."it goes to eleven", and radiological influenced death is not something directly apparent. most of the scientists , ( older fellows) at chernobyl died of heart attacks or illness that was liek dying from a cold. If you bother to watch the liquidators story , they are wrecked health wise as radiation destroys the immune system, what I am saying is that even under a suppressive information system the numbers are still 4-6 % for a release smaller than FUKUSHIMA....in five years , when you can purchase beer , i hope it still holds the same social purpose it does now, though I highly doubt that it will , and while I have absolutely (almost ) no problem being wrong , I cannot see why you would shake my hand unless it was an ego based thing . A friend of mine, a ranger, taught me that a hug is sociological but more importantly , it is human, we may die today, why waste it with false sentiment or reservation , the British may disagree , but in five years if I am wrong I will be buying the beer and shaking ., and hugging life , as it were ...and as I have said before , never in my life have I wished more powerfully that I was wrong, but that is NOT a sustainable attitude

Originally posted by adeclerk

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by adeclerk

 

if they aren't measuring in the usa for another 2 months (given it's on a three month cycle), how do we know whether it's accumulating or not?

They're measuring right now, have a look. www.epa.gov...
Nothing abnormal here.

There's actually a good amount of data to be found on the site you linked, Thanks!

From looking at the most recent data analysis found here we see that the most recent testing was posted on 06/01/2011. Well that's not too long ago, right?

The only thing is, no samples were taken any later than 04/30/2011.

This post goes in to more detail as to what can be found on the site linked and how it affects us daily.

reply to post by jadedANDcynical


You can see near real-time data from monitors all over the country on that link. A data analysis is nice, but the individual monitors are pretty telling.

reply to post by adeclerk


I've seen you ridiculing me and this story, which I find rather sad as I'm merely bringing up a topic, which I deem relevant and important enough to be subjected to discussion, but obviously you felt an urgent need to shoot the messenger, well so be it. I don't know what your intentions exactly are, but I did mention in the OP that the person in question might be simply mongering fear. I am just not sure what's worse: a government belittling a disaster, which likely is to have severe long-term impact or a person exaggerating its impact but at least raising the attention that this disaster deserves. It's a huge shame that governments and other institutions withhold the truth regarding the severity of this disaster.

You must be a fool to believe official statistics and the IAEA. Governments are not exactly known for providing truthful statistics (go look at the real and official unemployment rates) while the IAEA is working hard to save nuclear energy from being utterly rejected by the people. Either way, the odds that the extent of this disaster is going to be significantly worse than Chernobyl are a lot higher than that it is not. This has been confirmed by various experts.

Go ahead believing that US is not at risk, I beg to disagree, nor do I feel the need to convince you to change your opinion. You simply deny the risks that mankind faces. On a final note, this was my last contribution to this thread as I wish not to take part in the flame war that was created by some in this thread.

Originally posted by adeclerk
reply to post by jadedANDcynical

 

You can see near real-time data from monitors all over the country on that link. A data analysis is nice, but the individual monitors are pretty telling.

naive

but I request a response : www.abovetopsecret.com...

do not feel that the weight of decades of our opinions cannot benefit from your mind..perhaps once you grasp the totality of the situation, in such lights as may seem new ...insight may be born that is something better than anyone thus far has produced

It looks like in a decade or two Japan will have a very nice wildlife preserve.

wildlife comes back

I think those who are going for the fearmongering doctor's take don't realize how large this planet is.