Prestigious doctor: US nuclear 'Baby valley of death,' Millions to die

Originally posted by boncho
reply to post by Byrd

 

We have both covered the good doctor's essay.

She is an activist and the other person in the OP article has been paid for by the anti-nuclear lobby.

Oh *UGH*. I had to scurry off to work today and didn't check her affiliations. She should have her title removed.

The primary thing wrong with the good doctor's numbers is that she failed to pin the new deaths against the live birth rate. Which would have given us a percentage of children that died.

Actually, she didn't note WHAT they died of. Pneumonia? Abusive boyfriend of the mother (not uncommon)? Car accident (not unknown)? Preexisting genetic disorders? (most common) Premature babies (they have a high mortality rate)? SIDS? If we use her methodology, we find that car accidents, prematurity (where the baby was born BEFORE the accident), genetic disorders (occurring before Fukushima), bacterial sepsis, complications of labor, accidental drowning, accidental self-poisoning (kid getting into something), homicide, and dog attacks are all caused by radiation.

www.childdeathreview.org...

www.cdc.gov...

Originally posted by adeclerk

Originally posted by Aeons

Originally posted by Aeons
What I like about Daiichi now is that is has sunk several feet on the coast line. If another big shaker happens, I'd like to understand how anyone thinks they'll maintain containment when the reactors are under water.

Simple, they would just put wall structures to section off a bay where the plant is. It would actually be pretty logical, like a free, giant spent fuel tank that would be VERY efficient at containing the radiation.

If that's so sensible, why isn't it being done right now, since the damn things still a sieve?

Wave your magic wand.

reply to post by Byrd


Explanation: Uhmmm? I agree with you and here is why...

I did qualify in a later post of mine ...

Things to deeply consider!

The Nuclear explosion of both types of ww2 dirty nukes seriously both atomizes and spreads the nuclear fallout at a far GREATER level than would have happened at the Fukushima nuclear power plant. [weather conditions ommited]

Say a single mostly whole mox fuel rod was ejected and was recovered intact!

That would seriously drop the potential for death by acute radiation poisoning to almost the background level that existed before the event even occured.

There are so many variables that to give any further comment would be highly misleading!

Personal Disclosure: Mistake? Nope! I was upfront about it being pure speculation and a back of the envelope equation based on an idealized scenerio. I am sorry that you missed that and I understand that it was in a later post and could easily of been overlooked. I urge you to reconsider my position on this issue as I am quite willing to recalibrate and redo all the maths required to get an accurate estimate of lethality and the size of the area DIRECTLY affected!

P.S. Please see my next post to this thread for some credible radiation readings data on the explicit area in question!

reply to post by adeclerk


Explanation: Uhmmm?

I'm not downplaying the fact that there is no risk to North America. The only risk was to the Fukushima 50, stop fearmongering.

This is not simulation data ... its real data!

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/3a60f7a1db3a.jpg[/atsimg]

Screengrabbed from this website [EXTREME CAUTION: Link is over 150MB Big OK! :shk: ]

www.nnistar.com/gmap/fukushima.html

Backed up by these credible PDF's ...

Results of Airborne Monitoring by the Ministry of Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology and the U.S. Department of Energy (May 6, 2011) pages 4,5,6 & 7 [mext.go.jp]

Dose Readings Map (as of April 24, 2011) pages 1 & 2 [mext.go.jp]

Result of mesh monitoring in Fukushima (May 2nd) pages 3 & 4 [pref.fukushima.jp] [Caution large 2.46MB 82 page .pdf file]

Fukushima 50: Exact number of workers [wiki]

Originally there were approximately 800 workers on 11 March 2011, the day the earthquake and tsunami struck. On 15 March, workers deemed non-essential were withdrawn by the Tokyo Electric Power Company totalling around 750 workers due to increased risk and consequently leaving around 50. It was on this day, the media started to call the remaining workers the "Fukushima 50".

However, on the morning of the 16 March the remaining workers had to be evacuated for a brief period of time due to a radiation spike which was detected which could be harmful to the workers health. It was reported that when they returned to the plant, a further 130 or so workers joined their colleagues to total of around 180 to stabilise the reactors. The number of workers rose to 580 on the morning of the 18 March. By 12 April, approximately 700 workers were working on-site.

By 21 March 2011, Toshiba had sent a 100-strong team to two Fukushima plants as part of a task-force 700 Toshiba workers organized at Toshiba's Isogo Engineering Centre to defuse the nuclear crisis, and Hitachi had dispatched 120 to Fukushima I and formed a 1000-strong task force.

Referring to the original 50 workers, nuclear researcher Dr. Eric Hall opined that they were likely to be older, and unlikely to have further children, so the long-term effects of exposure to high-levels of ionizing radiation would be less likely to appear before a natural death. Some younger workers have been injured and young Osaka firefighters have been operating at the site. Since then, a group of 250 skilled senior citizens has volunteered to work in the radioactive environment, citing reduced harm to them.

eSci: Unsafe Radiation Found Near Tokyo, Vast Area of Japan Contaminated? (by FishOutofWater Thu Jun 16, 2011 at 04:19 PM PDT.) [dailykos.com]

Note: Link [sciencemag.org] in quote below requires membership at that website to view the full article ok.

Science Magazine reports that Japanese scientists have become so concerned about the health of their children that they have initiated their own radiation monitoring program and made their own maps. The results are shocking.

Parents in Tokyo's Koto Ward enlisted the help of Tomoya Yamauchi, a radiation physicist at Kobe University, to measure radiation in their neighborhood. Local government officials later joined the act, ordering radiation checks of schoolyards and other public places and posting the results on their Web sites. An anonymous volunteer recently plotted the available 6300 data points on a map. And Yukio Hayakawa, a volcanologist at Gunma University, turned that plot into a radiation contour map.
It shows one wide belt of radiation reaching 225 kilometers south from the stricken reactors to Tokyo and another extending to the southwest. Within those belts are localized hot spots, including an oval that encloses northeast Tokyo and Kashiwa and neighboring cities in Chiba Prefecture.

Radiation in this zone is 0.4 microsieverts per hour, or about 3.5 millisieverts per year. That is a fraction of the radiation found throughout much of Fukushima Prefecture, which surrounds the nuclear power plant. But it is still 10 times background levels and even above the 1-millisievert-per-year limit for ordinary citizens set by Japanese law. The health effects of such low doses are not clear and are passionately debated. But it is known that children are more susceptible to radiation than adults, and few parents want to take chances with a child's health. Besides, “The law should be observed,” Yamauchi says. Kyo Kageura, an information scientist at the University of Tokyo, says there should be a public discussion of the issue, “based on a scrupulous presentation of the data, including to what extent the 1-millisievert limit can be achieved.”

Personal Disclosure: Here is VISUAL of why we are discussing this ...



Sure ... just ignore that fallout cloud that is clearly OBVIOUS and BIGGER than the place that it originated from!

reply to post by OmegaLogos


Explanation: Just occured to me to expand on that credible data ...

The red squares on the picture of the map I screengrabbed are all rated at 5.0 and up microSv / 1hr

There are 8760 hrs in a year and those red areas would produce ...43800 microSv / 1yr = 43 milliSv / 1yr

6 Sv /yr is almost certainly a LETHAL DOSE ... so 43 milliSv / 1yr = 1/14th (7%) [rnded up] of a lethal dose!

The yellow squares are all rated 1.5 to 2.0 microSv / 1hr and translates to about 1/50th (2%) of a lethal dose!

Personal Disclosure: We now have some credible data to work with. We also have a Map that shows the areas affected and we can now begin to find out the numbers of exposed people in those areas for the specified timeframe [ie from the blast till the date of this post]. We can then work out an accurate number of potential mortalities this event may claim.

Originally posted by Aeons

Snip

I am not anti-nuclear. I am anti-stupidity. This disaster is PURE stupidity.

I am certainly anti-stupidity, have been for quite some time. The more I research the more anti-nuclear I become due to the fact of corruption and the complete lack of regard for basic safety precautions.

Fukushima is not the only reactor in Japan to have problems currently.

This thread details current problems and Ives some background of the Monju Liquid Metal Fast Breeder Reactor on the west coast of Honshu.

This is a separate reactor from Fukushima and is not run by Tepco, but is a state-operated asset. it too is fraught with cover-ups, mismanagement, and serious accidents that threaten large swaths of it's host country with the potential to spread radiation over a wide area.

The more I study and uncover various deceitful practices of agencies that are supposed to protect is from the dangers of nuclear energ, he more convinced I bcome that we, as a species, are too immature to attempt the harnessing of this energy source.

reply to post by jadedANDcynical


I refuse to be judged on the basis of scoundrels, idiots and the mentally imbalanced merely due to being in the same species.

reply to post by OmegaLogos


That real data is a map of Japan. Now admit North America is in no danger.

reply to post by XPLodER


Sounds like I'm hitting some kinda nerve so you're pulling out the sheeple card. What's next, I'm a disinfo agent?

reply to post by Mdv2


not in america. if there where wide spread radiation it would be easily detectable with geiger counters. A geiger counter is not a hard to get or expensive peice of equipment. if you are really worried about your babies drop 90 bucks and buy one.

Originally posted by Bachrk
This may sound silly but I have been noticing my dogs breathing while outside is much more labored. He's had all his shots and has never been this way before.

Oh my. That probably has nothing to do with the fact that it's summer.

reply to post by adeclerk


well im past calling you names but.............................
someone that does not answer questions in plain english.........................................
who has the exact same posting style as another...................................
who answers as if from a cheat sheet..........................

no not smart enough to be disinfo
i would say ......................
just sadly mis-informed

i can resort to understanding your veiwpoint without the need to label you
except woops i just did
mis informed is a nice way of saying what i think
and yes you hit a nerve but dont think yourself special
lots of people show the moves you have
and i can debate any of them
you are only happy to have derailed me in my posts
so back on topic i am

i think i will continue following your posts.......................which i am allowed to do within t+cs

and point out the holes in your language

xploder
edit to add
all the excusers for this crime against humanity will be aware one day
hope fully before its to late

Originally posted by XPLodER
reply to post by adeclerk

 

well im past calling you names but.............................
someone that does not answer questions in plain english.........................................
who has the exact same posting style as another...................................
who answers as if from a cheat sheet..........................

no not smart enough to be disinfo
i would say ......................
just sadly mis-informed

i can resort to understanding your veiwpoint without the need to label you

i think i will continue following your posts.......................which i am allowed to do within t+cs

and point out the holes in your language

xploder

I'm sorry if you're mad. Feel free to poke holes in my posts, from now on, though.

the insane nuclear opoligizers
will tell you there is no difference between "normal" radiatoin and the crap coming from fukashima
this is BS
plutonium IS one of the most dangerous substances to life that we know of
thats why it is treated so carefully
but no matter the precautions taken
there will ALWAYS be accidents
and it only took 1 fukashima to show how stupid the nuclear industry has been with the lives intrusted to them

they lied we died

dont trust them again

ever

anyone who apologizes for the nuclear industry is apologizing the wholesale distruction of this planet
and the continued "crimes against humanity"

i hold you as culpable as the idiots who designed and built this death machine

xploder

Just wanted to add a recent bit(June 21) by Dr. Michio Kaku describing how bad he thinks it still is, particularly since the new report is starkly different from the last. This also shows, how the media is not providing accurate/complete info. Of course japan could not be releasing any reports, either intentional or because they still do not know the extent.
On topic, when asked about radiation beyond the nuclear sight itself, and throughout the globe, he said it was still "minimal," yet detectable, as an example, in milk tested in New York.
However, it sounds like we have certainly not seen/heard the worst of the outcome for this event.

spec

Originally posted by XPLodER
anyone who apologizes for the nuclear industry is apologizing the wholesale distruction of this planet
and the continued "crimes against humanity"

Sounds more like supporting the use of fossil fuels. Are you trying to cover for the fossil fuel industry?

reply to post by OmegaLogos


You're forgetting about the Hot Particle laying around everywhere on the ground and being spread around in the air.

We are swallowing them almost anywhere in the world and there is no way to avoid swallowing them unless we wear a mask probably. (Perhaps)

Explanation i saw the video where the guy puts the Geiger counter near the ground in Tokyo(At-least i think Tokyo) and the Radiation is extremely high.

So someone kicks up dust by walking and ... people around vicinity inhale said particles.

Or the wind blows and you swallow the particles unknowingly!

Or the Rain Rains and you are rained on with Radio-active particles!

What about this video as well!
FaireWinds Associates- Arnie Gunderson- Hot Particle Swallowed

Therefore making those radiation maps irrelevant(To anyone outside Japan)

So basically there is nothing we can do about swallowing and/or consuming these hot particles. TEPCO has just sentenced millions of People to Death.

I am still perplexed on how people could /or can take legal action against the scums at TEPCO

Who actually only decided to throw Ocean water to stop the chain reaction (Because they wanted to save the Reactors for further $$$)

I was watching a video where they said All of Japan or Norther Japan would be uninhabitable if they didn't flood the Reactors with Sea water.

Either Uninhabitable Or Extremely Radiated

Thank god(I'm Agnostic) the government forced them to Drown the reactors in Ocean water or we'd have lost Northern Japan.

*Sigh*

Watch the Videos if you haven't Please

WATCH THE LAST VIDEO HE SAYS . TEPCO DIDN'T WANT TO FLOOD REACTORS AND ALMOST MADE NORTHERN JAPAN UNINHABITABLE

EXPLANATION UMMM>.... MADNESS OL

SOLUTION: UMMMMM

All TEPCO'S Profits shall be dispersed to all those affected by Fukushima in Japan. TEPCO shall be decommissioned and lose its license to provide energy to the people of Japan.

TEPCO who almost made Northern Japan Uninhabitable; Shall never be able to run Nuclear plants again and/or continue to be a company allow someone else to do TEPCO is clearly Dysfunctional

Solution Enacted... BEEP

Originally posted by Aeons

I am not anti-nuclear. I am anti-stupidity. This disaster is PURE stupidity.

Was it pure stupidity, or divine intervention?

How can any humans be trusted with holding under their control such dangerous things?

What happens when nuclear weapons, of all kinds are in the hands of enemies... everywhere?

What could happen when there are multiple nuclear disasters all over the world?

And last but not least, which is better decades of slow death, or a quick extermination?

Wow, Kaku fails. I wonder if he is just ignorant, or was pressured to put his own "happy face" on the reality of it. The deaths from Chernobyl are over ONE MILLION, not 10,000. That alone isn't excusable for a scientist. Then to ignore the distributed effect of hot particles and radioactive rainfall which is being measured all over the US. What a chump.

reply to post by speculativeoptimist

Of course japan could not be releasing any reports, either intentional or because they still do not know the extent. On topic, when asked about radiation beyond the nuclear sight itself, and throughout the globe, he said it was still "minimal," yet detectable, as an example, in milk tested in New York.

I already posted a link in this thread about milk being tested. It showed levels of I-131 (If I remember right) That were below the levels set out in 1986 (I think revised in 2005-in some way)

Here's some fun facts: (Since this thread has turned into random postings long after the people behind the OP article were exposed)

Exposure to Plutonium
How does plutonium get into the environment?

Plutonium was dispersed world wide from atmospheric testing of nuclear weapons conducted during the 1950s and ‘60s. The fallout from these tests left very low concentrations of plutonium in soils around the world.

Nuclear weapons production and testing facilities (Hanford, WA; Savannah River, GA; Rocky Flats, CO; and The Nevada Test Site, in the United States, and Mayak and Semi Plafinsk in the former Soviet Union), also released small amounts. Some releases have occurred in accidents with nuclear weapons, the reentry of satellites that used Pu-238, and from the Chernobyl nuclear reactor accident.

Top of page

How does plutonium change in the environment?

All isotopes of plutonium undergo radioactive decay. As plutonium decays, it releases radiation and forms other radioactive isotopes. For example, Pu-238 emits an alpha particle and becomes uranium-234; Pu-239 emits an alpha particle and becomes uranium-235.

This process happens slowly since the half-lives of plutonium isotopes tend to be relatively long: Pu-238 has a half-life of 87.7 years; Pu-239 has a half-life is 24,100 years, and Pu-240 has a half-life of 6,560 years. The decay process continues until a stable, non-radioactive element is formed.

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How do people come in contact with plutonium?

Residual plutonium from atmospheric nuclear weapons testing is dispersed widely in the environment. As a result, virtually everyone comes into contact with extremely small amounts of plutonium.

People who live near nuclear weapons production or testing sites may have increased exposure to plutonium, primarily through particles in the air, but possibly from water as well. Plants growing in contaminated soil can absorb small amounts of plutonium.

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How does plutonium get into the body?

People may inhale plutonium as a contaminant in dust. It can also be ingested with food or water. Most people have extremely low ingestion and inhalation of plutonium. However, people who live near government weapons production or testing facilities may have increased exposure. Plutonium exposure external to the body poses very little health risk.

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What does plutonium do once it gets into the body?

The stomach does not absorb plutonium very well, and most plutonium swallowed with food or water passes from the body through the feces. When inhaled, plutonium can remain in the lungs depending upon its particle size and how well the particular chemical form dissolves. The chemical forms that dissolve less easily may lodge in the lungs or move out with phlegm, and either be swallowed or spit out. But, the lungs may absorb chemical forms that dissolve more easily and pass them into the bloodstream.

Once in the bloodstream, plutonium moves throughout the body and into the bones, liver, or other body organs. Plutonium that reaches body organs generally stays in the body for decades and continues to expose the surrounding tissue to radiation.

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Health Effects of Plutonium
How can plutonium affect people's health?

External exposure to plutonium poses very little health risk, since plutonium isotopes emit alpha radiation, and almost no beta or gamma radiation. In contrast, internal exposure to plutonium is an extremely serious health hazard. It generally stays in the body for decades, exposing organs and tissues to radiation, and increasing the risk of cancer. Plutonium is also a toxic metal, and may cause damage to the kidneys.

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