Miracle in Gaza

How did Israel, just a few years after the horrors of the holocaust, manage to defeath the 6 Arab armies coming against them in 1948?

How did Israel win the 6 day war against armies much bigger and more powerful then themselves?

It really does make you wonder..

Originally posted by dontreally
How did Israel, just a few years after the horrors of the holocaust, manage to defeath the 6 Arab armies coming against them in 1948?

How did Israel win the 6 day war against armies much bigger and more powerful then themselves?

It really does make you wonder..

edit on 19-6-2011 by dontreally because: (no reason given)

So ummm.... you got any opinions on that yourself?

Or were you just writing something as an excuse to post a propaganda video?

reply to post by YourPopRock


Watch the video and then you'll understand the nature of my comments.

i dont think god went in and won those battles. I think It was the poeple in it. You know, the ones who planned it, and executed it. Who deserve the credit.

Israel was getting weapons around the UN from Americans from even their own civilian planes.

The only reason Israel won, was they attacked first, and with more and better weapons provided to them by Americans.

Israel is only alive and still alive because of American help, so if this is where you place your belief system, it's the US of A you should worship.

reply to post by dontreally


And I'm not going to watch the video, as I can tell where you stand from your avatar alone.

Most of us here are much less cryptic about our views, you should feel free to share and not hide yours.

reply to post by chancemusky


Ok.....

Of course, that is the natural answer that an agnostic/atheist would give.

But in my opinion G-d works through nature. He directs the thoughts and minds of men; he causes one to plan one way and causes the enemy to be unable to react to overcome it.

Thus, if 'bullets are missing' people, and one keeps on discovering all the things the enemy has set up against you....you begin to realize that everything is orchestrated by G-d.

reply to post by Jeanius


USA is run by Israel. Not Jewish, the people behind the masks. They will have their day on the cross.

reply to post by Jeanius

Israel was getting weapons around the UN from Americans from even their own civilian planes. The only reason Israel won, was they attacked first, and with more and better weapons provided to them by Americans.

HUH? In 1948 the Arabs had all the weapons the British left after the 2nd world war. Israel infact was sorely underequipped; hence the Altalena Affair. In 1947 Harry Truman put an embargo on trade to the middle east (which could have been interpreted as a way to insure an israeli loss when the Arabs attacked). Meaning, when 1948 came around, and the Arab armies were threatening to "throw the Jews into the sea", the haganah/labor group who controlled Israel permitted the Irgun (revisionist zionists) to import weapons from abroad, in defiance of the truman embargo. When the ship (the altalena) was at port at Tel Aviv, Ben gurion gave the order to open fire on it. Killing some 16 Irgun soldiers and destroying 100,000 dollars worth of weapons/ammunition.

Israel is only alive and still alive because of American help, so if this is where you place your belief system, it's the US of A you should worship.

You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about.

Read a book on the 6 day war or the 1948 war. You have this fantasy in your head that america helped when it was just Israel. Infact, during the 6 day war Egypts Radar malfunctioned which enabled the IAF to bomb their airfield, completely immobolizing them.

Israel was supplied with up to the date weapons unlike their neighbors which had Russian hand me downs and export versions.

reply to post by Jeanius


Is there a rule against using symbolism? so my avatar is symbolic. It has meaning to me. It doesnt matter if you understand it.

As for my views. G-d is supporting Israel.

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by chancemusky

 

Thus, if 'bullets are missing' people, and one keeps on discovering all the things the enemy has set up against you....you begin to realize that everything is orchestrated by G-d.

gosh he does really think "they" are the "chosen" one

lol... so where was G-d a few years before ?

maybe he didn't show up because the roms and tziganes and crippled and gays and communists and resistants also in the camps were not the "chosen" one, therefore not deserving to be saved ? or maybe those "chosen" one in the camps were not "chosen" one anymore because of their refusal (in the preceding years) to relocate in israël; which would lead us to the conclusion that the "chosen" one are in fact the zionists, not the jews...

i'm just trying to think with your frame of mind here, not expressing any personal opinion.

And as for why G-d is supporting Israel?

The Jewish people are a symbol.

Today the world feels they no longer need G-d. They worship their 'own' talents, abilities and knowledge. Technology has become a new god (hence transformers...an allegory for this) to them, and all people today worship before it altar.

At the same time, paganism has returned. The world has devolved to their pre-Abrahamic origins; to the same mentality that typified those who built the tower of babel.

Thus the Jews are a symbol; theyre a symbol for G-ds existence in this world. They overcame the manpower of 6 arab armies in 1948. Then again in 1967 they defeated Arab armies that outnumbered them 3-1. Israel had 300 aircraft, Arab armies had 957. Israel had 800 tanks. Arab armies had 2504.

The "Exile" of the Jew is thought of as the exile of the Shekinah (or G-ds presence). Thus, when the Jew returns to his former glory; so does G-d.

The Jew is simply a symbol; G-d chooses to use the Jew as a symbol for his might and glory. While mankind fights off G-d, G-d shows mankind that technology is still in his power. He gives man the wisdom to create; but when we 'trust' in technology as G-ds influence were irrelevant, or simply mechanical, he shows differently. He can cause radar to malfunction (as he did to the Egyptians), tanks for break down. Bullets to miss their target. Its actually quite comical.

Think Schindlers list; the scene where the Nazi tries to kill the Rabbi. He shoots his gun. It doesnt shoot. Then he takes the gun from his ankle. Again, it doesnt shoot. He takes his underlings gun, and AGAIN, it doesnt shoot. By that time, he is so frustrated that he punches him and - completely forgetting his initial desire to kill him - walks away.

Spielberg put that scene in the movie for a reason. It happens.

I dont really have much to say about this event, simply because there are really two sides to this story and I am having difficulty finding what really happened, so I wont speculate unless I take a serious look into the specifics. (including the LONG history that has brought us here, rather that just this event)

but on that note, it seems like the summary of this thread is to say that "God is on the Jews side", not a dispute as to who did what when in regards to the six day war.

The Idea that God has taken a side or role in these worldy events, or that he has a part to play in the seperate religions is really the root of this problem that has caused so much pain for so many generations. This video you posted supports this seperation.

You are another point of consciousness, another piece of God, that has chosen to cut itself from the whole.

This thread, and these ideas have added mortar to the walls of religions. Walls that will not, and can not contain the awesomeness of God.

reply to post by el1jah

The Idea that God has taken a side or role in these worldy events, or that he has a part to play in the seperate religions is really the root of this problem that has caused so much pain for so many generations. This video you posted supports this seperation. You are another point of consciousness, another piece of God, that has chosen to cut itself from the whole. This thread, and these ideas have added mortar to the walls of religions. Walls that will not, and can not contain the awesomeness of God.

While i get what youre saying, refer to the above post for WHY the Jew is unique; as the very bible continuously emphasizes.

Since Islam and Christianity are daughter religions of Judaism it has somewhat obfuscated that original role and mission the Jew had in pre-christian times.

For instance, you cannot find one ancient writer that speaks kindly of the Jewish G-d, aside from Seneca.

The issue is between monotheism and polytheism; or said differently, worshipping only the one G-d, and not intermediaries, as pagans do. For instance, open up a book of theosophy, hinduism, gnosticism, buddhism, and you'll begin to see that they talk of intermediaries as if they were a cause in themselves. The angels become gods. The phenomena becomes gods. Every little aspect is removed from the part that brought it about.

Conversely, Judaism - and through its daughter religions, Christianity and Islam, has taught the world to only look at creation as one organic whole. The sophistication of pagan thought (reproduced in neo-pagan doctrines like new age, theosophy etc) was very attractive to man 2000 years ago. Not until Judaism extended itself outward in the form of Christianity and to a larger extent Islam were people taught the importance of looking at reality as one. There is one, original cause; one creator who built the body we see; who gave everything its own unique form, with its own inner wisdom. This way of looking at things; seeing this world as G-ds house ("This is none other than the house of God, and this is the gate of heaven") and man as the only unique creation that can relate with him, and know him, in an intimate way is a deeper experience of the meaning of reality and goes beyond the pomp and allure of pagan/thought/sophistication.

Thus. G-d addresses mankind through his emissary, the Jew. Even though Islam and Christianity descended from 'the truth', they have both developed in ways that depart from the original simple message. Christianity too liberal; Islam too stern. In anycase, the Jews, regardless of their merit for it, are being used as a symbol for G-ds presence in this world. When the Jews ultimately succeed, and they will, the world will have to come to terms with the simple facts; despite their colluding to "throw Israel under the bus", it still had no effect. People cannot oppose the will of G-d. And G-ds simple will is that mankind discipline themselves. And through this discipline; this act of submission to mans creator, and master, will mankind truly begin to know the meaning of their existence.

The original Israelites are not Jewish. Those Israelites, led out of Egypt, were then invaded by the Khazars...

The Jewish are not even Jewish. That name was stolen from the original Jews.

No-one knows who God is. The common misconception is that God is the creation/creator. He is not. God is a perfect Human. A human who has achieved perfectness in spirituality. We are all part of the creation, as we are with God, and therefore we are one with God and the creation. We are merely different aspects of the same being.

The Jewish priests, along with the Roman and Egyptians persecuted Jesus, and Jesus foretold a false prophet would come along 500 years after his crucifixion, and this prophets name would be Mohammed, and he will bring horror and blood to those who beat Jesus, and also to those of his own people.

I ask you, has this come true?

reply to post by dontreally



You are blowing bubbles into an ideal.

I do believe God saves men of God, BUT the idea of salvation is really something of another conversation, because, what salvation is there in keeping me alive, or letting me die, I am deathless in nature, but accountable for my choices, which changes the game altogether.

I do believe there are many a rabbi who are men of God. I dont believe every Jew is a man of God or rabbi- things are never this simple.

I think a wise Jew would seek out those ribbis who are claiming to be men of God, and simultaneously against the current and past actions that are part of the new heritage of Israel.

I was born and raised in a strictly pentacostal home, my family (not me, my dad and his sisters and parents) suffered immensly for starting the first church in sicily (possibly all of Italy) which was not catholic. I felt like I had every base covered, a good religious explanation about every other religion and why my particular sect was right, even to a point of spiritual experiences with the 'holy spirit'.

Into my teens, I learned more, and more and more, and became more solidified, baptised into my religion (by choice). BUT it became unbearable for me to see that this God I loved so dearly, that put a world of chaos into its right place- allowed the death of so many, the idea that all those who were not part of it were going to hell. I longed to worship the God I knew was above all this. So I left, I took my identity and re-assesed it, looked over what it was I really believed in and what it implied in the big picture- put myself in the shoes of a hindu or a muslim (who I was close with in my public schools). I dove back into the chaos and it all fell apart, all my truths ceased to answer me any longer- no more crutches- no more identity.

I now can say I have smelled the aroma of our father. The light of his glory has peaked over the hills. I am not there yet, nor can I claim that I have seen him- but I have been touched by him, The joy. I am in the same room so to speak, and I can wait here for a millenia only dreaming of actually knowing him any deeper. no complaints here wow what a change I am sorry I felt really pissed at this thread in the beginning and now just thinking about God makes me fill with joy. My friend, do step away from these "ideas" you have been taught and see what you see with a free Identity.

Awesome

reply to post by dontreally


Accept when I tell you that I obviously dont have the same level of knowlege about the religions.

lets not mistake a sandbox for a desert. I dont think any of us are giving real merit to the concepts that our religions talk about because we have heard about it over and over and over Its all too big to be explained away with books, these are the maps, but the proof is in the pudding.

I want to ask you what you know about God. What do you (litterally) feel when you pray? is this feeling only felt by Jews, or does this happen to everyone who prays? Do you see into the future or talk to God like the prophets we admire? sorry I dont want to narrow out the different 'ideals' we are taught, just the nitty gritty of the experience in God.

reply to post by el1jah


Well, i appreciate your feelings about G-d. It was nice to read that.

However, i am not a Jew. I am a student of religion; i have many books on all religions (or most) and am pretty acquainted with the different ideas found in each.

In anycase, Judaism is unique in that the Talmud in Sanhedrin 105 says "Righteous people of all nations have a share in the world to come"...So, you had good reason to walk away from the cruel and crude beliefs of Christianity (i was born into a catholic family myself) that regards some phony, meaningless 'accepting christ' as the ticket to heaven.

Talmud says it simply, and logically. If you live a moral life, you create for yourself a heavenly afterlife. Its a basic cause and effect.

Thus, Judaisms "dogma" is a sensible one. Whereas what Christianity and Islam teaches, is patently ridiculous. What matters is how you live, what you do, and how you treat others, nature and yourself. And it is also bery important, indeed enriching, to include the creator into each little detail of your life here