JAPAN INSANE, radioactive MADNESS !!!

Here is another potential meltdown in Japan you may NOT have heard of, although, this plant DID out-gas about a month ago a good belch of particles that spread in the jet stream and was tracked around the world.

Learn while you CAN, HOW MAD THEY REALLY ARE before they cover it up, classified as ABOVE TOP SECRET


Japan Strains to Fix a Reactor Damaged Before Quake

TSURUGA, Japan — Three hundred miles southwest of Fukushima, at a nuclear reactor perched on the slopes of this rustic peninsula, engineers are engaged in another precarious struggle. Monju is 60 miles from Kyoto, a city of 1.5 million people. Miwako Ogiso, part of a Fukui Prefecture group against nuclear power, calls the Monju project “Japan's most dangerous reactor.” It has a history of safety problems and lies on an active fault. The Monju prototype fast-breeder reactor — a long-troubled national project — has been in a precarious state of shutdown since a 3.3-ton device crashed into the reactor’s inner vessel, cutting off access to the plutonium and uranium fuel rods at its core. Engineers have tried repeatedly since the accident last August to recover the device, which appears to have gotten stuck. They will make another attempt as early as next week.

NO, PLEASE DON'T !

The Monju reactor, which forms the cornerstone of a national project by resource-poor Japan to reuse and eventually produce nuclear fuel, shows the tensions between the scale of Japan’s nuclear ambitions and the risks.

The plant, a $12 billion project, has a history of safety lapses. It was shuttered for 14 years after a devastating fire in 1995, one of Japan’s most serious nuclear accidents before this year’s crisis at the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station. Prefecture and city officials found that the operator had tampered with video images of the fire to hide the scale of the disaster.

BRACE YOURSELF NOW, I have a few of things that are VERY DIFFICULT TO TELL YOU !!

A top manager at the plant recently committed suicide, on the day that Japan’s atomic energy agency announced that efforts to recover the device would cost almost $21.9 million. And, like several other reactors, Monju lies on an active fault.

And yet they struggle ON, NO PLEASE DON'T ...

Even if the device can be removed, restarting the reactor will be risky, given its safety record and its use of highly toxic plutonium as fuel, said Hideyuki Ban, co-director of the Citizens’ Nuclear Information Center, a watchdog group, and a member of an advisory government committee on Japan’s long-term nuclear energy policy. The plant is 60 miles from Kyoto, a city of 1.5 million people, and the fast-breeder design of the reactor makes it more prone to Chernobyl-type runaway reactions in the case of a severe accident, critics say.

“Let’s say they make this fix, which is very complicated,” Mr. Ban said. “The rest of the reactor remains highly dangerous. And an accident at Monju would have catastrophic consequences beyond what we are seeing at Fukushima.”

They need to LET IT REST and concentrate on their many problems and mistakes one problem and solution at a time ...

Japan badly needs sources of energy. By closing the loop on its nuclear fuel cycle, Japan aims to reuse, recycle and produce fresh fuel for its 54 reactors.

“Monju is a vital national asset,” said Noritomo Narita, a spokesman here in Tsuruga for the reactor’s operator, the government-backed Japan Atomic Energy Agency. “In a country so poor in resources, such as Japan, the efficient use of nuclear fuel is our national policy, and our mission.”

Critics have been fighting the project since its inception in the 1970s. “It’s Japan’s most dangerous reactor,” said Miwako Ogiso, secretary general of the Council of the People of Fukui Prefecture Against Nuclear Power. “It’s Japan’s most nonsensical reactor.”

After promises of safety upgrades, as well as lavish subsidies and public works, the government has wooed local officials into allowing a restart of the reactor. In Fukui, the government had ready allies: with 14 nuclear reactors, it is Japan’s most nuclear-friendly prefecture. (Fukushima, in second place, has 10 reactors.)

The Japanese nuclear industry is seriously ACCIDENT PRONE

Monju was reopened in May 2010, and just three months later, the 3.3-ton fuel relay device fell into the pressure vessel when a loose clutch gave way. In the two decades since the reactor started tests in 1991, the atomic energy agency has managed to generate electricity at the reactor only for one full hour.

In Monju, Japan is pursuing a technology that most countries have long abandoned. Decades ago, a handful of countries, including the United States, started exploring similar programs. But severe technical difficulties, as well as fears about the weapons-grade plutonium that the cycle eventually produces, have led most countries to scrap their programs.

This technology has a history of failure, they need to slow down and work more carefully.

But Japan has remained staunchly committed to the Monju project. The government of Prime Minister Naoto Kan has shielded it from the deep cuts in spending that it has required of other national projects since it came to power in September 2009.

Under a government plan, Japan would use technology developed at Monju to commercialize fast-breeder reactors by 2050.

Mr. Kan has recently hinted at an overhaul of Japan’s nuclear policy, though he has not commented specifically on the fate of the Monju reactor.

The commitment to Monju is rooted in the way Japan has sold its nuclear program to local communities, experts say. In persuading towns and villages to provide land for nuclear power stations, Japan has promised that the spent nuclear fuel — which remains highly radioactive for years — will not be stored permanently on site, but used as fresh fuel for the nuclear fuel cycle.

Giving up on any part of the fuel cycle would mean the government would have to find communities willing to become the final resting ground for the spent fuel.

“Of course, no community would accept that, and suddenly Japan’s entire nuclear program would become unviable,” said Keiji Kobayashi, a retired fast-breeder reactor expert formerly at the Kyoto University Research Reactor Institute.

Time to use that space program for something USEFUL, blast that nuclear waste into the SUN !!! But, of course, that is also an EXTREMELY DANGEROUS SOLUTION, mean while their house of cards begins to collapse !

But the technology comes with risks. Instead of water, which is used in commercial nuclear reactors, the prototype reactor uses 1,600 tons of liquid sodium, a hazardous material that reacts fiercely with water and air, to cool its fuel. The presence of an estimated 1.4 tons of highly toxic plutonium fuel at the reactor makes it more dangerous than light-water reactors, which use mainly uranium fuel, critics charge.

Meanwhile, other parts of Japan’s nuclear fuel cycle are also unraveling. The full opening of a nuclear fuel reprocessing plant in the village of Rokkasho, in Aomori Prefecture, has been delayed countless times, with more than $20 billion invested in the project.

Still, work continues to restart the Monju plant. In October, engineers used a crane to try to lift up the device, adding about 220 pounds of force a time. After 24 attempts, they gave up, fearful of the strains on the entire reactor.

Since mid-May, workers have been prepping for a different strategy, clearing the reactor’s lid of various instruments. As early as next week, workers will try to remove the device by dismantling a part of the vessel’s lid with it.

Workers face other dangers in fixing the plant. The reactor contains argon gas, which helps keep the sodium from burning but is a dangerous asphyxiant in confined spaces. And should the device fall farther into the reactor vessel, the damage could be substantial.

The atomic energy agency hopes the extraction will be complete by the end of the month. The agency says it will conduct extensive safety checks, and bolster its earthquake and tsunami defenses, before the reactor is eventually restarted.

They have such a busy schedule I wonder if they have even bothered to morn their dead ?

“The device will definitely come out this time,” said Toshikazu Takeda, director at the University of Fukui Research Institute of Nuclear Engineering, and head of a government panel that approved the latest repair plans. He said that engineers had recreated removal procedures at a lab and perfected their handling of the crane that will lift the device from the reactor vessel.

Once removed, the device will be checked thoroughly for missing parts or damage, he said. The liquid sodium coolant, heated to almost 400 degrees Fahrenheit, makes it impossible to check fully for any damage the device may have caused to the reactor vessel, however.

Still, Mr. Takeda said he hoped to see Monju complete safety checks and prepare for a restart within a year.

“Japan needs the nuclear fuel cycle,” he said, because supplies of fuels will not last forever. “Uranium will last less than a hundred years. Plutonium will last over a thousand.”

It is stupidity like this that makes people wish for a WORLD GOVERNMENT but I assure you if we really had one, they would be the ONLY group cheering Japan on in this MADNESS -- and it would ALL be ABOVE TOP SECRET !!!!!!

It like a bad episode of "The Three Stooges".

Every single thing they have touched has gotten worse.

Pride is one thing.....But I'm not willing to go down for their honor.

We better get the World's Best Guys on this ASAP.

This chain of events could effect the entire world...

this is seriously messed up! why cant the fuel be sent to the sun???

Originally posted by gremlin2011
this is seriously messed up! why cant the fuel be sent to the sun???

The idea of launching nuke waste into space would work, if it just weren't for the astronomical cost! Nuclear power is fairly cheap the way it is. Include the riddance of waste, and the cost will increase to the point of making it too expensive to operate.

In all that time onlu one hour of generated electricity? They are only one disaster away from destroying the island.

Originally posted by MACchine
Learn while you CAN, HOW MAD THEY REALLY ARE before they cover it up, classified as ABOVE TOP SECRET

Japan Strains to Fix a Reactor Damaged Before Quake

TSURUGA, Japan — Three hundred miles southwest of Fukushima,...

NO, PLEASE DON'T !

There's a problem with your link, it doesn't contain the text you quoted. Maybe the wrong link?

Here's a thread someone just made on that topic:
Worse than Fukushima Daiichi?

TSURUGA, Japan — Three hundred miles southwest of Fukushima, at a nuclear reactor perched on the slopes of this rustic peninsula, engineers are engaged in another precarious struggle.

So the other thread does have a link starting off with "three hundred miles...". But it's a pretty crappy thread, yours is better, but why all the caps?

General ATS discussion etiquette

5) Most of all, do not use ALL CAPS in posts and thread titles.

That's a lot of caps in the thread title, and a fair number in the OP too.

Regarding the topic, I don't agree the entire nuclear industry is insane as your source claims, but I do agree that Japan showed a lack of judgment in constructing so many nuclear facilities so close to fault lines with inadequate safeguards. It falls under the category "what were they thinking?".

And TEPCO's own people warned them about the hazard and TEPCO did nothing, that should be a crime.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


Japan's nuclear power industry is clearly deeply corrupt, unfit for purpose and in some cases absolutely criminal.

However, Tsurugu, whilst concerning, did not release into the environment, but into the coolant water, through tiny holes in the pipe work. Pipe work which had not been inspected since the plant opened in 1987. Japan Atomic Power said it now has a policy of disclosing even tiny anomalies at the plant after the crisis at Tokyo Electric Power Co's crippled nuclear power station in northern Japan heightened concerns about nuclear safety.

"Whether or not this incident deserves an official announcement is not an issue. If we don't disclose it and the information comes from somewhere else, in this climate it could look like it's being covered up," company spokesman Koji Otake said.

The plant was brought into cold shutdown, and is not not emitting radiation.

By the way, what does the awful nulcear power industry have to do with Japan mourning its dead? Really? How do you get THAT from the fact Tsrugu is leaking? The Japanese people have been totally screwed over by the nuclear power industry, and will have more dead to mourn in the future. Japanese people are FULLY human, and humane and this tragedy has inflicted another huge scar on the national psyche.

It good to question, but to make such statements in the midst of information seeking surely belittles your intellect.

Source in English - www.reuters.com...

Originally posted by ThousandIslandSunny
By the way, what does the awful nulcear power industry have to do with Japan mourning its dead? Really?

It good to question, but to make such statements in the midst of information seeking surely belittles your intellect.

The OP said a lot more negative things about Japan's nuclear power industry than I did, so I'm totally missing your point.

Is your reply directed at the wrong person?

reply to post by Arbitrageur


The distinction which you and many others seem to fail to make is that between the Japanese nuclear power industry, alongside the Government, and the Japanese people.

The Japanese government have been less than open in dealing with this disaster, but what government in the world would be in their position. Governments are governments, they all seem to lose touch with the best interests of their people.

The Japanese nuclear industry are appalling, and they have put Japan (and me included in that) through absolute hell, and continue to do so.

Separate from both of these entities are the Japanese people and resident here. People like me and my family. We are nothing to do with the Government or the nuclear power industry and have little power ourselves to change much. We can march, we can vote when we get the chance, but that is about it. TO suggest that 'Japan is mad', 'Japan are not mourning their dead' is incredibly insulting, and hurtful.

Do you get it?

This whole Honour thing they have is starting to anger me.

Have all the honour you want when this thing is over!

Originally posted by ThousandIslandSunny
TO suggest that 'Japan is mad', 'Japan are not mourning their dead' is incredibly insulting, and hurtful.

Do you get it?

Where did I say that?

Why don't you quote the specific comment I made that troubles you? Because no, I don't get why you have a problem with what I said.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


Sorry about the messed up link here is the correct article ...
Article

can't make a thread yet but, this is a must..

seriously? rabbits without ears

Originally posted by InFriNiTee

Originally posted by gremlin2011
this is seriously messed up! why cant the fuel be sent to the sun???

The idea of launching nuke waste into space would work, if it just weren't for the astronomical cost! Nuclear power is fairly cheap the way it is. Include the riddance of waste, and the cost will increase to the point of making it too expensive to operate.

edit on 18-6-2011 by InFriNiTee because: (no reason given)

NO, YOU CAN'T DO IT, if you have failure on launch then the rocket hits the ground somewhere and you have a dirty bomb ! From Japan you would have more pollution in the ocean, or China attacking because its an act of war.

Although, considering the madness that seems to be prevailing there right now, WHO KNOWS, they might try it !

It is a REALLY BAD idea, experience with launching this stuff will NOT make it safer, eventually an accident will happen. Now if they invented a NEW type of rocket or launch capability that does not fail or explode then they have a good idea and can toss the stuff into the sun.

Originally posted by jyze420
can't make a thread yet but, this is a must..

seriously? rabbits without ears

There's a reason for that, you need to learn to use the search function first. There have already been several threads posted on rabbits without ears, we don't need any more.

Try the search function and see if you can find them.

Originally posted by MACchine
Sorry about the messed up link here is the correct article ...
Article

Thanks for the corrected link.

Originally posted by gremlin2011
this is seriously messed up! why cant the fuel be sent to the sun???

Think Challenger.

Originally posted by ThousandIslandSunny
reply to post by Arbitrageur

 

Japan's nuclear power industry is clearly deeply corrupt, unfit for purpose and in some cases absolutely criminal.

However, Tsurugu, whilst concerning, did not release into the environment, but into the coolant water, through tiny holes in the pipe work. Pipe work which had not been inspected since the plant opened in 1987. Japan Atomic Power said it now has a policy of disclosing even tiny anomalies at the plant after the crisis at Tokyo Electric Power Co's crippled nuclear power station in northern Japan heightened concerns about nuclear safety.

"Whether or not this incident deserves an official announcement is not an issue. If we don't disclose it and the information comes from somewhere else, in this climate it could look like it's being covered up," company spokesman Koji Otake said.

The plant was brought into cold shutdown, and is not not emitting radiation.

By the way, what does the awful nulcear power industry have to do with Japan mourning its dead? Really? How do you get THAT from the fact Tsrugu is leaking? The Japanese people have been totally screwed over by the nuclear power industry, and will have more dead to mourn in the future. Japanese people are FULLY human, and humane and this tragedy has inflicted another huge scar on the national psyche.

It good to question, but to make such statements in the midst of information seeking surely belittles your intellect.

Source in English - www.reuters.com...

edit on 18-6-2011 by ThousandIslandSunny because: added link to source

The manager of the plant KILLED HIMSELF !

Will his colleagues morn him or just keep on working ? It seems to me THIS is a disaster of such vast proportions the nuclear authority should just shut down operations to a skeleton crew and let everyone rest and mourn for a month OR LONGER, transfer them to Fukushima until that is straitened out, and then regroup, discuss new opportunities for the plant with scientists, and make a new plan for this plant AND THEN PROCEED.

I use caps for emphasis, read it out loud and then you will get it.

Originally posted by randyvs

Originally posted by gremlin2011
this is seriously messed up! why cant the fuel be sent to the sun???

Think Challenger.

that's a good example. We wouldn't send up the raw fuel rods with pellets, only the processed fuel which is made into solid blocks. The challenger explosion didn't even destroy the fragile crew compartment, that was probably in pretty good shape until it hit the water, so I think nuclear waste would have been even more intact, even after hitting the water. And, because if its radioactive signature, it wouldn't be that hard to find.

The launches are already designed so the launch debris falls into the ocean as that incident demonstrated. It's really not such a bad idea as you folks think, as long as the fuel is processed into a solid.

The big problem is cost. But we may find some ways around that eventually:

Space disposal

The high number of launches that would be required (because no individual rocket would be able to carry very much of the material relative to the total which needs to be disposed of) makes the proposal impractical (for both economic and risk-based reasons) using current rockets, resulting in some suggestions for developing a mass driver for disposal instead. To further complicate matters, international agreements on the regulation of such a program would need to be established.

The mass driver concept is interesting.

This probably isn't the exact process we'd use to prepare fuel for space disposal but it might be something along these lines, that would keep the fuel relatively intact during a launch accident:

The 'calcine' generated is fed continuously into an induction heated furnace with fragmented glass.[29] The resulting glass is a new substance in which the waste products are bonded into the glass matrix when it solidifies. This product, as a melt, is poured into stainless steel cylindrical containers ("cylinders") in a batch process. When cooled, the fluid solidifies ("vitrifies") into the glass. Such glass, after being formed, is highly resistant to water.[30]

After filling a cylinder, a seal is welded onto the cylinder. The cylinder is then washed. After being inspected for external contamination, the steel cylinder is stored, usually in an underground repository. In this form, the waste products are expected to be immobilized for a long period of time (many thousands of years).

Since it's highly resistant to water, even if it falls in the ocean, it won't contaminate the ocean, though it would emit localized radiation until it's recovered. We wouldn't get anything like the ocean contamination we're getting from the Fukushima disaster.

In any case, nuclear plant operators need to stop storing spent nuclear fuel right next to active nuclear reactors, that's one lesson learned that should have widespread effects on existing operations, I hope.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


I did not know that GOOD IDEAS !!!

reply to post by Arbitrageur


A'm I understanding this debacle right? See how am I gonna say this?

So a solution for the disposal of spent nuclear fuel, isn't even considered a part of any nuclear programm.?Because when you add that cost to the program, nuclear power is no longer profitable ?
Run the reactors and let the spent fuel pile up like spent gun casings ? I'm sorry but this whole planet would be better off, if we just let all the mentally handicapped children under 12, run things. If you're 13 and up you can be in charge, of your own bodily functions. But that's it.