I was born in America but English was not my first Language... English was forced upon me

The original Native Americans were white Solutreans from western Europe. You are just a descendant of genocidal Asians from Siberia. Get over it, this is not your land either.

reply to post by DaddyBare


You're words are wrong. In all of history, the same language among a diverse people strengthens the nation and keeps the diversity.

Greece
China
Japan
Korea
Rome
Egypt
African tribal regions
Persia
The Fertile Crescent
The Steppes
The Mongols
The Ottomans
The Babylonians
The Byzantium
India, perhaps the greatest example.
Even the Maya and Aztec

Nowhere in history do a people remain one with many languages and no single language unifying them. Hell, from a purely practical manner, do you honestly think so many sci fis would be as successful as they were if all the aliens spoke different languages and needed constant texts?

The fact of the manner is that history does not support your opinion. Even among your own people, nationality was always bound by language, and compatibility with others was bound by the understanding between kinsmen.

Don't walk in and say you're right when 10,000 years of human history say you're wrong. You just look like some agent for a cause, propagandist, or just plain ignorant.

It never matters who rules the land. It only matters that they speak the same language. Speak your own, but learn ours. You can have both, you cannot have one if it is the minority. Go ahead and bring over a few words. American English could always use some more words that cannot be translated into English. It makes poems better and stories deeper. But do not act like you are some victim because you had to learn English. Do not play the poor native because you had to learn English. The whole of South America has mysteriously managed to maintain culturally independent despite the adaption of south America. So do not come in and act like you are suffering, when an entire continent just south of here managed very very well under just such the system you are complaining about.

I don't much mind where the hell you came from. I like diversity. But I want to hear and know what you are saying, and I refuse to acknowledge you as an intelligent individual if you cannot learn the language of the land. Now that is always changing, and never bound by borders. But do not act like the balkanization of language is a positive to a national identity. It never is. In all of history, I can hardly think of any nation that managed to survive with many languages. Hell, the whole of Europe was stuck in the ignorance of the dark ages for the explicit reason of the break up of Latin into different languages.

Very wrong situation. The US citizens weren't and still aren't in control of our Federal government. They should have stood up against the government and for the american indians. And you know I honestly feel that given the opportunity, the US government would do it again in a heartbeart.

reply to post by DaddyBare
Someday the truth about the many civilizations that have risen and fallen on this planet for hundreds of thousands and maybe millions of years will be knows. Meanwhile, the United States Of American and this civilization is English Speaking and if you want to participate or even if you don't and want to benefit from this civilization you are going to need to speak English. Yes, it is true Mexicans and the Spanish language has creeped in as the population of Spanish Speaking peoples have grown, by whatever means. Bottom line, speak what ever language you wish and reap the outcomes. Yo Comorendo?

reply to post by Ghost375


I am Native American and I take offense to your post. The English language was forced onto young natives starting in the 1800's up until the early 70's.

If they refused to use it or even used their own nation's (not tribe as the Anglo-Saxons call it) tongue they were chastised and even severely beaten. This happened to my great grandfather my grandfather and my mother who was a child in the late 50's early 60's.

Also the Catholic church in all of it's wisdom and mercy used to take our young "savage and heathen" children and beat them into submission while "teaching" them the christian way so that their souls could be saved.

So in my humble red skinned opinion I think FORCED is the absolute proper term. Is that okay with you because Me havem a heap big problem with the way the pale face treats us even today. Was that better?

Originally posted by DaddyBare
I a Native born American, never knew more than a few words of English until I went to school... My own Language was beaten out of me, punished because I did not inherently understand English words...

Yeah, but look at it this way. If you never learned English, you wouldnt know how to post on ATS.

You would never understand how cool the Beatles are.

You could never ask for Red or Green chile. (that would totally suck)

Be happy you leaned English.

The Four Control Dramas from the Celestine Prophecy;
Intimidators: steal energy from others by threat.
Interrogators: steal it by judging and questioning.
Aloof people: attract attention (and energy) to themselves by playing coy.
Poor me's: make us feel guilty and responsible for them.

Originally posted by havok
As much as I admire your posts, I have to voice my opinion.

Your ancestors and your family were here before the Europeans.
Therefore, your ancestors were here before 'Americans'...
I honestly feel that 'Americans' stole this land from your ancestors.
My family immigrated here in the early 1900's, so I can't say I was a part...(

)

So for you to say English is not your native tongue is admirable, but it shouldn't be.
You are not of European decent or from another country, per say.
This is your land.

Now for those immigrants who did come here, like my family, they had to learn English.
Why? Because that was how they could get by.
We all understood our native language even until the last of my grandparents died.
It was nice to be able to communicate with the locals and get jobs, etc, in English.
But poking fun at people in Italian was much more fun.

If you goto another country, say France, don't you think you should learn the French language?
Or do you expect everyone to know your language and understand it?
Just as my grandpap used to say, "If you didnt learn English, you didn't make it far."
Totally different story now.

Bi-lingual signs, books, teaching in schools...all this is for a more liberal society.
Because god forbid we stick to our guns here in America.

If you want to live in another country, you should learn their language.
Not the other way around.

Period.


But being a native of the land and having the land taken from you...is another story.

edit on 18-6-2011 by havok because: Grammer

this. poster is 100% right.

unless you are trying to be a Jazzscapes and stir # up/ in which case i approve of your wild anarchy

reply to post by daggyz


The original poster is to polite to say it but I will.

The point is the government and or the "immigrants" before the modern government have done nothing but rape, kill, oppress, steal from, and flat out abuse Native Americans from the first time they set foot on this land.

The Europeans came to this land seeking freedom from religious persecution and when they encountered us lowly indians they forced their religion and beliefs on the savages in order to save their souls. The blacks and other "minorities" complain constantly about how they are treated today yet the Native Americans are still made fun of, discriminated against and out right disregarded.

We are the "invisible" or "forgotten" race. It is socially and morally acceptable in this society to bastardize and disregard our people, culture and religious and cultural beliefs.

Let's have a sports team called the Honkeys, Porch Monkeys, Beaners or something else like that and you will see riots and protests. Yet is acceptable to have a team called the Red Skins! That is as offensive to natives as the racial slurs I stated are to their respective races.

Instead of a red big nosed big toothed native as a mascot or emblem let's have a black man with big lips and an afro, or a Jewish person with a huge nose and money in his hand, or how about a white red neck with a beer in one hand and a balled up fist beating his toothless wife in front of their trailer!

YEAH RIGHT!!!!!!!! NOT ONLY WOULD THAT BE WRONG AND DISRESPECTFUL........ but there would be social outcry and lawsuits EVERYWHERE!

I am not trying to be racist!!!! I am merely pointing out the fact that it would be wrong to do these things but somehow it has become acceptable or just not worth caring about discrimination against, stereotyping and or mistreating natives.

The more people like you try to down play the past and PRESENT poor treatment and or attitude towards natives the more you prove my point!

Too bad those disease infested blankets government gave to natives back in the day didn't kill us all off huh?

And "Native Americans" didn't originate in the USA. They migrated here. Countries and land are conquered, this is the way of most primates and definitely humans.

You are no more native to the USA than I am. Get off your high horse. No race owns the USA.......

Originally posted by havok
If you goto another country, say France, don't you think you should learn the French language?
Or do you expect everyone to know your language and understand it?

You're contradicting yourself..earlier you said

This is your land.

So the "immigrants" who came to his land should learn his language.

If you want to live in another country, you should learn their language.
Not the other way around.Period.

You should pay heed to your own advise.

English is not and has never been the official language of US.

Ya'ah'teh brother!

It's beyond some people to see from any perspective but their own.

I've always admired the Jicarilla, as they were one of the only tribes never to 'surrender,' but were instead merely tricked into terms not outlined in the original negotiation.

Thank you for your honest post, it is a good thing you do here for all mankind.

There were over five hundred languages here on Turtle Island before we were 'discovered.'

English is important, if only for survival, but these native languages deserve to be preserved.

I think the issue is an important one, because so many of the ancient languages are being lost forever with the passing of the generations.

In order for these languages to survive, english must be learned as a necessary second to them.

This will ensure their survival, and the society at large will still get to communicate with these bilingual natives.

reply to post by DaddyBare


I wish my ancestors would have at least kept our ancestral language alive.

In some of the families from the Old Country, kids were punished for not speaking english at home as well.

In public, I do believe that the "common" language should be used BUT at home the old ways should be kept alive.

Got no past, then you got no future. Ist all about heritage.

I've always thought that you native folks got a raw deal. Taking yalls kids away from your people to be "anglicized"? That was insane.

I'm not even going into the Ghost Dance.

Some cat down in Austin was (imho) trying to make a point by speaking spanish at a government event. Cant remember what it was about. he was being an ass. He has been here for 23 freakin years. I guarantee he knows english. Thats just rude.

An official called him on it (rightfully so). Now that official is being called "intolerant" and "racist".

Had that person been me speaking German, would this official been given flak? Doubt it.

Were I to be in the Fatherland (my German isnt great), I would at least attempt to speak as much as I could in such a situation. Were I in (god forbid) Mexico, I'd do the same. Its just respect for where you are.

At home, we try to speak the old language (butchered as it is). Bringing back what was lost.

Respect for our people. We are learning and building.

I hope you do the same with your kids. You have much more to loose than I. Your language is much more likely to die. Every generation will strengthen it. Keep it alive! Make sure the kids remember!

As an aside, we went to a "pow wow" at a giant flea market called Traders Village.

My wife has a little bit of Lakota blood. Doesnt look it but (somehow) some of the old ladies "made" her. Kinda weird.

anyhow.

We expected a legit religious ceremony. It was anything but.

they were christianized. we were PISSED!

One warrior (and he WAS a WARRIOR!) got it! He was the only one that was "tuned in". Everyone else did the dance. They were fine. With him? you could FEEL what he felt! Its was a sort of "empathic" thing. Its hard to explain. It wasnt so much what or how he did. I dont know how to explain it. he "brought down" the energy.

I was both proud for him and sad at the same time. Out of about 20 people, he seemed to be the only one.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by DaddyBare

 

I don't much mind where the hell you came from. I like diversity. But I want to hear and know what you are saying, and I refuse to acknowledge you as an intelligent individual if you cannot learn the language of the land. Now that is always changing, and never bound by borders. But do not act like the balkanization of language is a positive to a national identity. It never is. In all of history, I can hardly think of any nation that managed to survive with many languages. Hell, the whole of Europe was stuck in the ignorance of the dark ages for the explicit reason of the break up of Latin into different languages.

"intelligent individual"?

Obviously, he has learned the language.

Your acknowledgment of him (or myself) as an "intelligent individual" isnt necessary.

How is keeping your native language alive dangerous? Take the works of Goethe, Jung, or Nietzsche. Were German to die, these works could disappear as well. think about what the spanish SOB"s did in Mexico. All of the written works BURNED because they were "evil". Maybe go back further. Alexandria?

As far as the Dark Ages being due to the loss of Latin (you forgot Greek), that was because the common folk werent educated and therefore couldnt read (among other reasons)! Period.

you also seem to forget that THESE WERE KIDS!

>>>>Correct me I am wrong Daddybare

Historically Correct....Great Post My friend,.

reply to post by Gorman91


You do realise Greek was never standardised until about the 2nd century AD, well after the glory days of greece. There were a variety of largely different dialects. China has two different languages. Not everyone in the Roman empire spoke latin. The Ottoman empire covered a variety of languages as well. India has a huge number of national and accepted languages, although with some as unifiers, however, these local languages are all that are used locally. So seems some of your examples are wrong, might wanna go back to the drawing board of your theory of needing a single unified language.

And your English is fine, and seem to have semi mastered it .thank those teachers(and your parents/family) who taught you! Because they taught you exactly what you needed for your new world!.

Taking Spanish classes when you spoke Spanish to other kids in class is umm…..well…..you know….questionable. …

reply to post by DaddyBare


well if they are happy to steal your land and culture
don’t see why they would leave you your language..

Although i don’t know much about how Americans treat the natives in modern times ( i know about the early mistreatment)
i do know a lot about how Australians treat the aboriginals, and it is truly disgusting..it makes me ashamed to be white..
and its even funnier when we have such a horrible view on immigrants on refugees, when its not even our land in the first place

good luck for you and your people and all the indigenous people around the world who have been grossly mistreated..Sadly the white peoples ignorance will probably never end..

reply to post by DaddyBare


YOU live in the United States so YOU should speak English! We are an English speaking country and if you can't learn to speak English then you should move elsewhere. That is all I have to say!